The Wizzard

    > Is that the marginal tax rate, meaning that everything over
    > that amount is taxed at 40%, but the earnings up to GBP34K
    > are taxed at a lower rate?
I believe so yes.

Andrew

here!here!
Canada also offers CHOICE.....


"Stuart Brook" wrote in
message news:3D962A84.-
[email protected]...
    > Bodza Bodza wrote:
    > > Your purchasing power is *much* better for houses and cars, otherwise
    > > it's swings and roundabouts.
    > >
    > > Don't think of a move to Canada as a move to "low cost high wage
    > > paradise".
    > >
    > You know, if I took my salary to England and convert to UK Pounds, I
    > couldn't afford to live there in the same kind of lifestyle!
    > I was in England this summer for 2 weeks. Trips to Sainsbury's and
    > Tesco's would part with at least 30-50% more for *the kind of foods we
    > would eat at home in Canada*. If I were to change to a beans on toast,
    > eggs and bacon lifestyle, then yes, my bills would go down. Bananas 49p
    > per pound vs 57c in Ottawa. Apples 79p per pound vs $1.09 in Ottawa.
    > The list goes on and on. Bread was similar price. Tinned beans and
    > spaghetti were cheaper ... but that's about it.
    > A trip to Starbucks here costs about $3.50 for a grande cappuccino, vs
    > 3.69 POUNDS in Guildford.
    > Electricity is about 9p per kwhr there and around 8 c per kw/hr in
    > Ottawa.
    > I really don't buy that the UK is similar cost of living to Canada.

Stuart Brook

Andrew wrote:
    > here!here!
    > Canada also offers CHOICE.....

Actually, I'm finding an amazing amount of choice in the UK these days
... far improved from when we came to Canada in 81.

Tim

"> You can't really afford a three bedroom in a nice part of London, UK even
on
    > 40K. Don't forget that here salaries above 28K are taxed at 60%.

Er top rate of tax in the UK is only 40% unless it changed recently?

Tim

Tim

Thats correct

"The Wizzard" wrote in message
news:5AEl9.151$U87.141@ne-
ws-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
    > >
    > > Is that the marginal tax rate, meaning that everything over
    > > that amount is taxed at 40%, but the earnings up to GBP34K
    > > are taxed at a lower rate?
    > >
    > I believe so yes.

Tim

Actually my wife "knows" about shopping (unfortunately) and as far as choice
is concerend she has a point which is they just don't have the same choice
of quality goods in Canada, clothes in particular. I think in general for
most quality consumer goods theres a better choice in the UK, especially
electronic products, I believe they are just far further ahead than Canada,
but I can live without it anyway.

North America has this wierd impression that the UK is some backward country
trying to catchup with the US. This may have been back in 1971 but things
have changed since then big time. There is and was a HUGE technology
revolution going on there. The amount of inovation and change is enormous.
The southeast is bursting with hitech jobs. Contracting IT has gone a bit
flat but perm jobs are still lacking in good skilled applicants.




"Andrew" wrote in message
news:VAGl9.633$_X3.7325-
[email protected]...
    > here!here!
    > Canada also offers CHOICE.....
    > "Stuart Brook" wrote in
    > message news:3D962A8-
    > [email protected]    ...
    > > Bodza Bodza wrote:
    > >
    > > > Your purchasing power is *much* better for houses and cars, otherwise
    > > > it's swings and roundabouts.
    > > >
    > > > Don't think of a move to Canada as a move to "low cost high wage
    > > > paradise".
    > > >
    > >
    > > You know, if I took my salary to England and convert to UK Pounds, I
    > > couldn't afford to live there in the same kind of lifestyle!
    > >
    > > I was in England this summer for 2 weeks. Trips to Sainsbury's and
    > > Tesco's would part with at least 30-50% more for *the kind of foods we
    > > would eat at home in Canada*. If I were to change to a beans on toast,
    > > eggs and bacon lifestyle, then yes, my bills would go down. Bananas 49p
    > > per pound vs 57c in Ottawa. Apples 79p per pound vs $1.09 in Ottawa.
    > > The list goes on and on. Bread was similar price. Tinned beans and
    > > spaghetti were cheaper ... but that's about it.
    > >
    > > A trip to Starbucks here costs about $3.50 for a grande cappuccino, vs
    > > 3.69 POUNDS in Guildford.
    > >
    > > Electricity is about 9p per kwhr there and around 8 c per kw/hr in
    > > Ottawa.
    > >
    > >
    > > I really don't buy that the UK is similar cost of living to Canada.

Stuart Brook

Tim wrote:
    > Actually my wife "knows" about shopping (unfortunately) and as far as choice
    > is concerend she has a point which is they just don't have the same choice
    > of quality goods in Canada, clothes in particular. I think in general for
    > most quality consumer goods theres a better choice in the UK, especially
    > electronic products, I believe they are just far further ahead than Canada,
    > but I can live without it anyway.
    > North America has this wierd impression that the UK is some backward country
    > trying to catchup with the US. This may have been back in 1971 but things
    > have changed since then big time. There is and was a HUGE technology
    > revolution going on there. The amount of inovation and change is enormous.
    > The southeast is bursting with hitech jobs. Contracting IT has gone a bit
    > flat but perm jobs are still lacking in good skilled applicants.

Advanced Technology, like consumer electroncs, I agree has finally made
it from the research labs into the marketplace in the UK very well,
where 30 years ago it just couldn't get there, suffering just like Beta
in the Beta VHS wars. N. America was the place that consumer technology
went to the forefront.

Other areas it's not so.

As for quality goods ... the problem is affording quality in the UK ...
I was in M&S this summer ... a place renown for quality at a reasonable
price in days gone by. It's now quality at a quality price.

The problem is if you compare Marks or BHS to WalMart or Zellers you're
gonna fall flat and you won't see quality. You can't make those
comparisons, because WalMart and Zellers are mass marketers of
everything.

Stuart

Bodza Bodza

"Adrian Stoica" wrote:
    > You can't really afford a three bedroom in a nice part of London, UK even on
    > 40K. Don't forget that here salaries above 28K are taxed at 60%.

This is unclear and on both counts wrong.
In the UK salaries definitely *aren't* taxed at 60% over 28KGBP. I
should know.

In Ontario salaries over $75K are taxed at about 45% (federal AND
ontario included) then you have EI and CPP so it's closer to 50%.

Bodza Bodza

Stuart Brook wrote:
    > You know, if I took my salary to England and convert to UK Pounds, I
    > couldn't afford to live there in the same kind of lifestyle!

Of course not. For one, you get paid less in Canada and secondly you
insist on drinking Starbucks.

    > I was in England this summer for 2 weeks. Trips to Sainsbury's and
    > Tesco's would part with at least 30-50% more for *the kind of foods we
    > would eat at home in Canada*.

If you eat American products it would, yes. e.g. Tropicana Orange
juice is the same price in pounds as in US dollars. That holds true
for a LOT of American products. Look at Burger King, Pizza Hut,
McDonalds etc: Just cross the US border and eat in one of those to get
the US$ price. Then swap the currency symbol. Radio Shack is the same.
It's an American habit to do this.
*Other* products are patently *not* 30%-50% dearer across the board.
In fact most cases they are CHEAPER.

    >If I were to change to a beans on toast,
    >eggs and bacon lifestyle, then yes, my bills would go down. Bananas 49p
    >per pound vs 57c in Ottawa. Apples 79p per pound vs $1.09 in Ottawa.

Erm, no. For one thing most produce is measured in KGs so I think not.
And in any case to counter your argument: Roast Chicken 2.49GBP
(safeway UK) $7.99 dominion (brampton). Pineapple $6.99 (brampton)
Pineapple 99p (safeway UK) Cheddar Cheese 1KG $10.99 (brampton) 1KG
1.99GBP (safeway UK).

Now Canadian supermarkets wins in variety hands down, because there
are certain products you just can't get. But the same holds true in
reverse though less so.

    > The list goes on and on. Bread was similar price. Tinned beans and
    > spaghetti were cheaper ... but that's about it.

Erm, no. No it's not.
Electrical goods: 27in TV Brand Name (Future Shop Brampton) $499 + tax
- $799 + tax. (Note the Canadian TVs are ANALOGUE and NTSC ONLY).
27in Brand Name (Woolworths UK) 249GBP - 599GBP (THESE TVs are DIGITAL
Widescreen and BOTH PAL and NTSC)

    > A trip to Starbucks here costs about $3.50 for a grande cappuccino, vs
    > 3.69 POUNDS in Guildford.

Big deal. Beer costs upwards of $6 + tax + tip a pint in T.O. and £2
here in the UK.

    > I really don't buy that the UK is similar cost of living to Canada.

Nothing like the blind that will not see.

Stuart you are an old fart. You visit for two weeks are you are an
expert on UK prices. Get real. You are exactly like my Aunt and Uncle
who moved to Canada in the 1970s. In spite of SHOWING them the prices
were cheaper here when THEY visited in early summer they held fast to
their belief which is the same as yours. The FACTS don't bear you out.
I suggest you go on believing like the Canadians that e.g. Americans
come visiting in mid-july with skis.

In the 1970s and early 1980s Canada *was* clearly better and cheaper
in almost everything. It's position eroded throughout the 1980s and
accelerated in the 1990s.

NOW there's nothing in it.

Like I said, the ONLY things that matter that are better are your
house and your car, but your salary will be LOWER so it's swings and
roundabouts.

Say what you like, the facts are the facts.

Bodza Bodza

"Andrew" wrote:

    > here!here!
    > Canada also offers CHOICE.....

This is exactly the problem you get on this list. The Canadians feel
"attacked" when the facts are presented which are contrary to their
misguided beliefs that Canada is the best in all things.

Oh and by the way, foole, it's "hear, hear".

Numpty.

Bodza Bodza

"Tim" wrote:

    > North America has this wierd impression that the UK is some backward country
    > trying to catchup with the US. This may have been back in 1971 but things
    > have changed since then big time.

Exactly. Some realism. And on the contrary I could see the relative
slide happening with Canada going down versus the UK going up during
the late nineties.

When I first visited Canada as a teenager in the early eighties I was
wowed.
It seemed like everyone had cars and the houses were huge. My cousins
also earned *much* more money than I was (probably about double) from
their part time jobs.
In contrast in the UK it was a "corner shop" and bus-to-work type of
country.

By the time I went out there in the mid nineties the UK had changed
completely.
There were so many cars that in most places you couldn't get parked at
night coming home from work. The variety of products on offer in shops
had exploded.
A comparison of salaries showed that Canadian ones had stayed the same
whilst British had almost doubled. This trend continued throughout the
nineties till what we have now is that there is absolutely nothing in
it. Nothing.

In Canada you have choice, bigger houses and bigger cars.
In the UK you have more money, cheap vacations and cheap beer.

Scott

"Bodza Bodza" wrote in message
news:355bc975.0210020102-
[email protected]...

    > Oh and by the way, foole, it's "hear, hear".
LoL
    > Numpty.
Bodza yer not Scots BTW ? That's a bit of a give-away ! ;0)>

S

Stuart Brook

Bodza Bodza wrote:
    > Stuart Brook wrote:
    > > You know, if I took my salary to England and convert to UK Pounds, I
    > > couldn't afford to live there in the same kind of lifestyle!
    > Of course not. For one, you get paid less in Canada and secondly you
    > insist on drinking Starbucks.
    > > I was in England this summer for 2 weeks. Trips to Sainsbury's and
    > > Tesco's would part with at least 30-50% more for *the kind of foods we
    > > would eat at home in Canada*.
    > If you eat American products it would, yes. e.g. Tropicana Orange
    > juice is the same price in pounds as in US dollars. That holds true
    > for a LOT of American products. Look at Burger King, Pizza Hut,
    > McDonalds etc: Just cross the US border and eat in one of those to get
    > the US$ price. Then swap the currency symbol. Radio Shack is the same.
    > It's an American habit to do this.
    > *Other* products are patently *not* 30%-50% dearer across the board.
    > In fact most cases they are CHEAPER.
    > >If I were to change to a beans on toast,
    > >eggs and bacon lifestyle, then yes, my bills would go down. Bananas 49p
    > >per pound vs 57c in Ottawa. Apples 79p per pound vs $1.09 in Ottawa.
    > Erm, no. For one thing most produce is measured in KGs so I think not.
    > And in any case to counter your argument: Roast Chicken 2.49GBP
    > (safeway UK) $7.99 dominion (brampton). Pineapple $6.99 (brampton)
    > Pineapple 99p (safeway UK) Cheddar Cheese 1KG $10.99 (brampton) 1KG
    > 1.99GBP (safeway UK).

I'm all to well aware of the difference in weights ... You picked
chicken and cheese as examples. I sure don't pay $10.99 for cheese
more like $8 per kilo, and then Tesco and Sainsbury's cheap cheddar was
closer to pounds 3.99 per kilo.

    > Now Canadian supermarkets wins in variety hands down, because there
    > are certain products you just can't get. But the same holds true in
    > reverse though less so.
    > > The list goes on and on. Bread was similar price. Tinned beans and
    > > spaghetti were cheaper ... but that's about it.
    > Erm, no. No it's not.
    > Electrical goods: 27in TV Brand Name (Future Shop Brampton) $499 + tax
    > - $799 + tax. (Note the Canadian TVs are ANALOGUE and NTSC ONLY).
    > 27in Brand Name (Woolworths UK) 249GBP - 599GBP (THESE TVs are DIGITAL
    > Widescreen and BOTH PAL and NTSC)

And just how many days per week to you go out and buy TVs ? These are
things that barely factor into the cost of living.

    > I suggest you go on believing like the Canadians that e.g. Americans
    > come visiting in mid-july with skis.

Come off it. I am a Brit. I have family in the UK. I just buried my
father this summer in England. I have significant contacts with the UK
to know that I could not afford to live there on my salary, excluding a
house.

The cost of living in the UK is significantly higher than Canada. No
two ways about it ... and on some day to day stuff.

Bodza Bodza

Stuart Brook wrote:
    > I'm all to well aware of the difference in weights ... You picked
    > chicken and cheese as examples. I sure don't pay $10.99 for cheese
    > more like $8 per kilo, and then Tesco and Sainsbury's cheap cheddar was
    > closer to pounds 3.99 per kilo.

Fine, we'll take your prices for arguments sake. Note that they are
almost the same. *Not* much cheaper. Which is the whole point.

    > And just how many days per week to you go out and buy TVs ? These are
    > things that barely factor into the cost of living.

But they *do* factor into the comparison of price of goods..

    > Come off it. I am a Brit.

I know. I am taking the mickey Stuart.
"You insist on drinking starbucks". he he.
No offense inteded I'm just having a laugh.

    >I have family in the UK. I just buried my
    >father this summer in England. I have significant contacts with the UK
    >to know that I could not afford to live there on my salary, excluding a
    >house.

I'm not questioning your impressions. But I am saying that they are
only impressions. It probably is true like you said that you could not
afford north american foodstuffs on your salary and you could afford
British "beans and bacon" but when in Rome, live as the Romans do.

I know what I'm talking about too, since I lived in Brampton ON for
seven years since 1994. I still own a house there and I leased a
truck. I also went to supermarkets regularly and lived there just like
a Canadian does. I was making about $80K. I left in early february to
come back over here till things get better in Canada and I can tell
you it is a *very* pleasant surprise how *cheap* it is to live here.
What I *can* tell you is that I live differently.
I have a smaller car and it is diesel rather than a truck which was
gasoline.
I drive less. I take the train to work. I *know* what things cost here
and what I can see is there's *nothing* in it. Really, the only big
things are the size of the car and the size of the house. You are
quite right that starbucks, McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut and
American Imported products are expensive as hell here. It's true. So I
don't buy them. I buy local alternatives.
In the end result I am living just as well on 30KGBP as I was on $80K
in Canada with the sole exception of size of house and size of car.

    > The cost of living in the UK is significantly higher than Canada. No
    > two ways about it ... and on some day to day stuff.

And we can argue till we're blue in the face. My aunt and Uncle who
still live in Cambridge say the same thing. I on the other hand have
moved back and am living here so I think my point is more valid.

The UK is *not* more expensive across the board. *only* what I have
mentioned is more expensive.

The good things about Canada are the weather, the space and the
choice.

Stuart Brook

Bodza Bodza wrote:

    > I know. I am taking the mickey Stuart.
    > "You insist on drinking starbucks". he he.
    > No offense inteded I'm just having a laugh.

Thank god, no I don't insist on drinking starbucks ... I don't really
like their coffee -- they over-roast their beans and are too overpriced,
even in Canada for my taste and my pocket!

    > I'm not questioning your impressions. But I am saying that they are
    > only impressions. It probably is true like you said that you could not
    > afford north american foodstuffs on your salary and you could afford
    > British "beans and bacon" but when in Rome, live as the Romans do.

    > I drive less. I take the train to work. I *know* what things cost here
    > and what I can see is there's *nothing* in it. Really, the only big
    > things are the size of the car and the size of the house. You are
    > quite right that starbucks, McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut and
    > American Imported products are expensive as hell here. It's true. So I
    > don't buy them. I buy local alternatives.
    > In the end result I am living just as well on 30KGBP as I was on $80K
    > in Canada with the sole exception of size of house and size of car.

No, you're not living as well *by typical definitions of living well*
... you are living comfortably by English standards, which is not the
same as living comfortably by N. American standards.

Stuart