abner

And occasionally at least, it all works out. (The initial job in the new country flamed out, but I recovered. And the relationship endured.)

***

With regards to expectations of annual leave in Canadian employment: traditionally--like, 40 years ago--there were three weeks 'holiday' annually (vs the "American" two weeks). And, a number of statutory holidays during summertime, when nobody would expect you'd answer a phone over the long weekend. No sick leave per se. But if you were truly sick, with a doctor or hospital signing off on it, your pay wasn't docked. (Though your job could be in jeopardy, if the medical issue couldn't readily be addressed longterm.)

Fastforward 20 years from that and, in my experience, *this* was typical (private sector): 20 days per year PTO (paid time off), nominally able to be taken as any combination of annual leave, sick leave or carer's leave.

Today, from what my nieces and nephew tell me, it's all over the map now, for new employees, especially as there as few FT positions actually available.

dbd33

I haven't had a full time position since the 1980s. I suggest that a new immigrant in an expensive housing market wouldn't want one. Hourly paid contractors are not obliged to take the statutory holidays and are not subject to any limits on the hours they can work. Billing more hours than the other guy is the way to afford the house the other guy cannot..

wardy_1990

hourly is definitely a kicker, I worked in trucking hourly and the forced overtime was horrendous on the body but very well paid, not sure if it's better than the overtime at flat rate in UK but less hours. I never did paid per mile and probably wouldn't if I can help it.
when I worked in construction it was a one off large job for a great company, hours were good pay was good and they only stopped vacation over 2 week long, unpaid leave could be taken but it was a good period for the economy, I am trying to break back in to construction to move back this time with 3 girls.
buying is a pipe dream for at least 3 years hobbies are down to a minimum when I get there and even excersising time is hard to fit in so health can take a hit. but having said that I have 3 girls and believe they will have a better start there than in south Yorkshire. the way I saw it was if they didn't take to school and worked in the local store they are still safer walking home late than most towns in UK. other services here are overworked too hospitals and police but education for them is cheaper in Canada than UK and they may get French to boot.
if university fees were dropped to what Europe have and the local police was boosted with changes to job seekers allowance I would probably stay in UK.

it's all about the weekend in Canada live close to interest areas. I like sailing prefer sea but will sail lakes, hiking and biking so Calgary works for me. if I resit and get my red seal and move I will always be looking for a hill and water.
Look at north American history and follow the work staying in one place for 30 years might not be possible and moving province is common in a lot of industries unless your educated.. that's my two cents. all other stuff dbd33 is spot on with

scrubbedexpat091

I suppose since I was always mostly in shift work in 24/7 industries, I never thought about stat holidays being actual days off.

I am technically speaking an independent contractor, I can pick and choose everything except the pay, the pay is chosen by the delivery apps and customers via tips. Really other than having to cover the cost of all expenses, and being able tp pick and choose when to work, not much benefit income wise to it, it on average pays less than min wage if you break it down to hours worked vs pay before any expenses, on a busy weekend, I can average about $9/hr but busy time periods are short and sweet and you can only do 1 delivery at a time, so I might get about 1 delivery an hour on average, time takes to drive to pick up point, time it takes to drive to delivery point, averages about an hour for the typical delivery..

Tony_Tiger

Interesting post.
OP I think it depends on what type of lifestyle you want and what you are leaving in terms of income, housing and hobbies. Yes there is less vacation here. But on the flip side of that, the standard of living is higher.
To give a perspective, I had more vacation in the UK. But I could not really afford to do anything. Sure one may can do a holiday to Greece, Italy, Span and access other parts of the world with ease. If you have the income, they life is good.
Where as in Canada I have less time off, but more bank holidays. So it may be loading up my SUV and taking a trip down the road to go paddle boarding, hiking, whitewater rafting, mountain biking. Or going to a friends and sitting by the firepit. Then my standard of living is higher when I get home. Im not dealing with old victorian housing thats cold, smelly toilets, crappy electric showers that just trinkle out water, micro washing machines and fridges.
My friends in the UK, don't have a great standard of living. But they can do the weekend breaks to Europe or loading the Nissan Micra, grabbing some cheese and pickle sandwiches, navigating the congestion and going somewhere in the UK.
There are trade offs, food is not so great here (dont get me started on the price of cheese) and you will miss nicknacks. But overall I like this lifestyle. I do more short outdoor stints then I would do in the UK. But I have had to adapt.
I was paddle boarding last week, and my friend sent me a picture of him at Wimbledon watching the Tennis.
Work culture is different. I find nobody really goes to the pub for a bit of banter. I do find it harder to make friends. I don't know if that is a age thing or people tend to stick with same agreeable ideas. My Brit group is different, we are defo not agreeable with each other and we do go for drinks.

Gozit

This sums it up quite nicely.

If I moved to Malta I would have 5 weeks of holiday by law but no money to spend to go on holiday.
If I stay in Canada I have a measly 10 days or 3 weeks at best until i'm a lot older/more senior in my career but all the money in the world to spend on holiday. And if I use those 10 days to go back home then I can't go on holiday anywhere else.

It's a chicken and egg conundrum.

abner

But contract work, e.g. as in the IT world, that pays better-than-FT-hourly rates for several months at a time, typically requires an established in-market reputation and CV, or a very high-demand skillset that is worth chasing (and trusting) an offshore reference for.

It's probably a little different now, than 40 years ago.

Gozit

+1

I was trying for entry level contract gigs earlier in the year and was getting nowhere. I was getting more luck with FT permanent roles, however I specifically wanted a 6-12 month role. These roles didn't necessarily pay better I just wanted to work for 6-12 months then go take a gap year like I was planning before covid hit.

dbd33

I work with contract and permanent IT people and actuaries. I think the actuary market is as you describe and that that is a fair characterization of one aspect of IT consulting 40, or even 15, years ago. Contract actuaries cost hundreds of dollars per hour so having half a dozen of them billing 40 hours a week is a serious cost. Firms only pay that when there's a short term need. If firms are going to spend that money then they want reputation, both of the consulting company and the individuals. In the actuary market the consultants are either employees of the consulting firm or well enough established to be able to subcontract to the firm at a high proportion of the rate.


Part of the IT contracting marketing was once like that, and there are still some niche skills that bring serious money. In general though that's not what the market is about. What companies are buying is disposability and, particularly in the US, freedom from paying for health insurance. There are few rare skills in IT, someone hiring will have the choice of very many candidates all of them claiming to know whatever the client is asking for. Some of them are in Canada, most are ready to come immediately (unless they get an H1B in the meantime). Making the person a contractor is insurance to mitigate the risk of not being able to see them and not knowing if their claimed place of education is real, if you can just fire at will then there's less need to validate them. IT contractors are very much under the control of their pimps, they work for 2/3s or 1/2 of the rate and may be paid months in arrears. I assume the people behind recent regressive start ups such as a uber and the food delivery companies were once computer contractors as the model is similar.

This isn't really any different than forty years ago when I got a contract claiming to be a Cobol programmer without having seen Cobol. After a couple of months the firm laid off the other contractors and allowed me to work 60 hours a week. It was that obvious willingness to work all the hours, trampling the other contractors along the way, that we look for now. That and a claimed skill set but most people misrepresent themselves and their pimp often provides a coach for the interview so "claimed" is the operative word.

Gozit is a weak candidate for a contract because, as far as I know, he has no specific "get in the door" skill and because he's local. The immigrant work ethic is preferred.

Siouxie

All the chit chat about high pay for IT contract workers is all well and good - but not necessarily relevant to someone who is working for the NHS..

Hopefully the OP will return and let us know what it is they do for a living, so they can get more relevant viewpoints.

craig_hoxton

I've been in Canada for 13 years in Toronto and spent about half that time in full-time employment for Canadian employers.

Professionalism standards are much, much lower here compared to the UK eg. people don't call you when they said they would, aren't fully prepared for job interviews (have not read applicant's CV or cover letter at all).

As for time off, you'll get the (sub)standard 10 working days off if you are a new hire and *maybe* after 5 years you might get more vacation days. So be prepared to fight your corner and negotiate upfront for more days off. Canada has fewer Statutory Holidays (ie. UK-equivalent Bank Holidays). This leads to Canadians adopting a "live for the weekend" mentality ("Hey what did ya get up to on the weekend, bud?") as that's almost like unpaid vacation to them.

The standard of living is much higher here than what is currently available in the UK - there're no aggression or alcohol-fuelled violence, workplaces aren't toxic overall (YMMV), teenagers are well-behaved, grown-ups have manners and there is good customer service in retail shops (in the UK I once overheard someone at Debenhams say "I'm not serving *him*").

It's up to you if you want to go for it in Canada or if you have apron strings that still tie you to the UK.

scrubbedexpat091

There is always Saskatchewan, 3 weeks after 1 year employment vs the usual 2 in other provinces, if you can manage to stay with the same company for 10 years you get boosted to 4 weeks.

https://www.saskatchewan.ca/business...d-vacation-pay


That is the other sticking point, its all based on time with employer, so every time you move to a new employer your starting back from 0 for the first year, unless you happen to be in the position of being able to negotiate.