Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
Jun 20th 2021, 4:21 am
#46
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
I think some are being a little unkind to Gozit.
Sure he's had support from family while studying and saving. Didn't we all have that sort of family support at his age?
I never knew anyone who saved enough for a gap year abroad or anything abroad that was more than a package holiday, and that was from full time wages. In an old job I came into contact with many students, including their financial situations (no jobs) and those having gap years did so thanks to mumsy or daddy, saving only from their 'allowance' or surviving from casual jobs when away.
Gozit seems to have saved from his work ethic which we've read about over several years now.
Sure he's had support from family while studying and saving. Didn't we all have that sort of family support at his age?
I never knew anyone who saved enough for a gap year abroad or anything abroad that was more than a package holiday, and that was from full time wages. In an old job I came into contact with many students, including their financial situations (no jobs) and those having gap years did so thanks to mumsy or daddy, saving only from their 'allowance' or surviving from casual jobs when away.
Gozit seems to have saved from his work ethic which we've read about over several years now.
Jun 20th 2021, 9:50 am
#47
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,960
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
I agree with BristolUK - most people have help from their parents at most times in their lives. I'll get flak for this but i'm going to say it anyway - people shouldn't have kids if they aren't willing to support them a little bit into adulthood as they get their lives started and figure out what they want to do. The attitude of yesterday "figure it out on your own" doesn't fit in today's society where things cost many times more then they did "back in the day."
I was talking to my grandparents about their first house in Canada which they paid $28,000 for and then resold for $90,000 some time later. Yes the value of money was different in the 70s but between then and now prices have balooned and without help from family most people my age I know won't be buying a home any time soon unless they have around $150k household income as DBD said, which I firmly believe is not the norm. It also means you can't afford a home on a single income - so if you're like me and still single you have no hope of being able to afford anything.
Anyway - we're taking away from the topic.
Bottom line - Europe has a better quality of life then Canada if your definition of quality of life is having more time to yourself and less stressful work environment in exchange for less money. If you want more money, bigger house, bigger/nicer car, it's easier to attain that in Canada.
I was talking to my grandparents about their first house in Canada which they paid $28,000 for and then resold for $90,000 some time later. Yes the value of money was different in the 70s but between then and now prices have balooned and without help from family most people my age I know won't be buying a home any time soon unless they have around $150k household income as DBD said, which I firmly believe is not the norm. It also means you can't afford a home on a single income - so if you're like me and still single you have no hope of being able to afford anything.
Anyway - we're taking away from the topic.
Bottom line - Europe has a better quality of life then Canada if your definition of quality of life is having more time to yourself and less stressful work environment in exchange for less money. If you want more money, bigger house, bigger/nicer car, it's easier to attain that in Canada.
Jun 20th 2021, 7:57 pm
#48
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
You're not the first generation that's happened to, it's just a surprise for North Americans who are generally spoiled with space, size of houses, cars, second homes.
if you want a life of gadgets then NA is the place to be.
if you want a life of gadgets then NA is the place to be.
Jun 20th 2021, 10:03 pm
#49
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
150,000 is not the norm you are correct there, while this data is a couple years old, I doubt the new census will show any huge increase in households with incomes over 100,000 but since the most recent census data is not out yet, the best is 2016 census, which showed only 30% of households in Vancouver earned over 100,000, so pretty clear a good majority of households cannot buy a home in Vancouver anymore.
I only have to go back to my grandparents to a time when 1 income was sufficient to raise 5 kids, 2 cars, own a house, and live a comfortable middle class life without any education beyond high school, by the time my parents were 20 in 1978 they needed 2 incomes but were still worse off than their parents were, and most of my siblings are worse off than our parents were.
I only have to go back to my grandparents to a time when 1 income was sufficient to raise 5 kids, 2 cars, own a house, and live a comfortable middle class life without any education beyond high school, by the time my parents were 20 in 1978 they needed 2 incomes but were still worse off than their parents were, and most of my siblings are worse off than our parents were.
I agree with BristolUK - most people have help from their parents at most times in their lives. I'll get flak for this but i'm going to say it anyway - people shouldn't have kids if they aren't willing to support them a little bit into adulthood as they get their lives started and figure out what they want to do. The attitude of yesterday "figure it out on your own" doesn't fit in today's society where things cost many times more then they did "back in the day."
I was talking to my grandparents about their first house in Canada which they paid $28,000 for and then resold for $90,000 some time later. Yes the value of money was different in the 70s but between then and now prices have balooned and without help from family most people my age I know won't be buying a home any time soon unless they have around $150k household income as DBD said, which I firmly believe is not the norm. It also means you can't afford a home on a single income - so if you're like me and still single you have no hope of being able to afford anything.
Anyway - we're taking away from the topic.
Bottom line - Europe has a better quality of life then Canada if your definition of quality of life is having more time to yourself and less stressful work environment in exchange for less money. If you want more money, bigger house, bigger/nicer car, it's easier to attain that in Canada.
I was talking to my grandparents about their first house in Canada which they paid $28,000 for and then resold for $90,000 some time later. Yes the value of money was different in the 70s but between then and now prices have balooned and without help from family most people my age I know won't be buying a home any time soon unless they have around $150k household income as DBD said, which I firmly believe is not the norm. It also means you can't afford a home on a single income - so if you're like me and still single you have no hope of being able to afford anything.
Anyway - we're taking away from the topic.
Bottom line - Europe has a better quality of life then Canada if your definition of quality of life is having more time to yourself and less stressful work environment in exchange for less money. If you want more money, bigger house, bigger/nicer car, it's easier to attain that in Canada.
Jun 20th 2021, 11:32 pm
#50
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
150,000 is not the norm you are correct there, while this data is a couple years old, I doubt the new census will show any huge increase in households with incomes over 100,000 but since the most recent census data is not out yet, the best is 2016 census, which showed only 30% of households in Vancouver earned over 100,000, so pretty clear a good majority of households cannot buy a home in Vancouver anymore.
I only have to go back to my grandparents to a time when 1 income was sufficient to raise 5 kids, 2 cars, own a house, and live a comfortable middle class life without any education beyond high school, by the time my parents were 20 in 1978 they needed 2 incomes but were still worse off than their parents were, and most of my siblings are worse off than our parents were.
I only have to go back to my grandparents to a time when 1 income was sufficient to raise 5 kids, 2 cars, own a house, and live a comfortable middle class life without any education beyond high school, by the time my parents were 20 in 1978 they needed 2 incomes but were still worse off than their parents were, and most of my siblings are worse off than our parents were.
Jun 21st 2021, 12:30 am
#51
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
It can all still be done, one can get a good job and buy lots of stuff in Canada. It's not like trying to do so somewhere impossible, like, say, Chelsea. It's just that holidays aren't part of the deal, they're not customary here in the way they are in Europe.
Last edited by dbd33; Jun 21st 2021 at 12:40 am.
Jun 21st 2021, 12:38 am
#52
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
I did all this. 3 kids, not 5 but one completely disabled. Starting from nothing. I didn't take holidays though.
My one daughter in Canada lives much the way I did. She has lots of children, is shopping for a house with her husband, they only have one car pending the house purchase being completed but they do have a ten grand electric bicycle thingy. They needed education to do it but the downside of that was that they started with $150,000 of student loan debt, so less than nothing.
It can all still be done, one can get a good job and buy lots of stuff in Canada. It's not like trying to do so somewhere impossible, like, say, Chelsea. It's just that holidays aren't part of the deal, they're not customary here in the way they are in Europe.
My one daughter in Canada lives much the way I did. She has lots of children, is shopping for a house with her husband, they only have one car pending the house purchase being completed but they do have a ten grand electric bicycle thingy. They needed education to do it but the downside of that was that they started with $150,000 of student loan debt, so less than nothing.
It can all still be done, one can get a good job and buy lots of stuff in Canada. It's not like trying to do so somewhere impossible, like, say, Chelsea. It's just that holidays aren't part of the deal, they're not customary here in the way they are in Europe.
Maybe if your a skilled professional.
My parents didn't need to be smart and skilled to have a quality life, kids, nor did my grandparents, but I could work 20 hours a day, and still wouldn't earn enough to even own a condo, that is the difference between now and then.
Jun 21st 2021, 12:47 am
#53
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
I think we may assume immigrants to be smart and skilled. Unless in fear for their lives, people do not generally move countries unless they think they have the moxie to make a go of it.
Jun 21st 2021, 12:49 am
#54
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
And those who had no choice to be in Canada because they were born here who are not smart or skilled? Just let them suffer in the streets?
Jun 21st 2021, 1:11 am
#55
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
This thread considers the merits of a move to Canada, material goods vs. holidays, that's a decision that's only relevant to immigrants.
Jun 21st 2021, 2:17 am
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
Skilled professional is what it needs now to be sure anf get what you want when you want it.
Regarding life in the 60s and 70s ................ it was not at all unusual, in fact almost the norm, for boys (because that is what they were) to leave school at the end of Grade 8 and get really well paying jobs in forestry or mining. That was most definitely the case here in BC, I've heard of it happening in Quebec, and probably in every other province ........... potash mining in Saskatchewan, for example.
It was still happening in some places up until about 25 or so years ago. There are men being laid off from forestry jobs now who have no other training than what they got up to Gr 8, and learnt on the job.
The money they earned was often a darned sight higher than what a professional was earning back then.
So what your grandparents could manage to do vs your parents vs what happens today is almost impossible to compare.
Jun 21st 2021, 3:59 am
#57
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
Jun 21st 2021, 4:40 am
#58
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jun 21st 2021 at 5:02 am.
Jun 21st 2021, 1:00 pm
#59
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,730
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
According to wiki
In 2019, Canada admitted 341,180 permanent residents, compared to 321,055 the previous year. Among those admitted, 58% were economic immigrants and their accompanying immediate families; 27% were family class; 15% were either resettled refugees or protected persons or were in the humanitarian and other category.
- it's probably lower than 50% making 'the rest' - or other reasons to move to Canada - the majority.
Jun 21st 2021, 3:26 pm
#60
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 345
Re: Sacrificing paid leave for a better life?
I am in the advanced stages of planning my move to and future Permanent Residency application for Canada. I have worked and lived there seasonally for the past 4 years and I know that I love the country, the culture and the way of life that it has to offer. The biggest drawback for me is the pitiful amount of paid leave that is offered in most conventional jobs. I mean, seriously, just 10 days mandatory??! Having worked in the UK for most of my life, it would feel like a massive sacrifice of my time and my worry is that I won't have the opportunity to enjoy/explore the country properly because I'll be working all the time, which I think would be really depressing. I know that it does increase if you are with the same company, but even after 10 years employment you STILL don't get as much as the baseline amount in the UK. It just seems incredibly unfair and having read lots of posts it seems that in more conventional jobs (which I don't have experience of in Canada), the work culture in general is a lot more like the US than the UK i.e. big focus on deadlines, high stress, draconian bosses who are reluctant to approve leave etc. which I honestly think I would despise unless I absolutely adored my job (not likely). Those who are now working in Canada and living there full time - how do you find the work culture and is it really hard to adjust to the (in my opinion) inadequate amount of leave?
In terms of the work culture, it would depend on province / area and line of work. I am a financial planner, and was an IFA in the UK. I am gobsmacked by the p*ss poor quality of management and the seeming endless ability of first class losers to fail upwards because they know the right people. The conceit that these tossers subsequently display is genuinely something I have rarely seen in the UK, or when I was in Italy.
The counter point to this, however, since it engenders a low productivity low accountability environment, does tend to mean that you can talk a load of corporate nonsense and you will generally be left alone. Some people may call this relaxed, but it can be corrosive to one's own high standards. Do bear in mind that I am in Nova Scotia, so other provinces may be different.
In summary, examine carefully why you want to come, what you want to be the result, and when you are going to call it if things are working out. All the best for it.
