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Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Review of Vancouver after 18 months

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Old Dec 15th 2017, 9:33 am
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

This is an interesting thread, thanks! My husband and I are moving to Vancouver next March (location mostly determined by my husband's current job). We have both visited Vancouver before and really liked the city, obviously living there may well be different!
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Old Dec 15th 2017, 12:48 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post

My parents also didn't have to work 90 hours just to pay rent either. They only worked 40 hours per week, and paid rent, owned 2 cars, took vacations, had 2 kids etc and a good quality of life, and ability to save and have retirement.
To be fair, this is true in very many places. It's not Vancouver's fault that life isn't as good for working people as it once was. This change is balanced by life being better for the rich now than it was in that era. It's unfortunate that the rich in Vancouver are a foreign, possibly transient, population but to a lesser degree, and with more diversity, the same can be said of London.
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Old Dec 15th 2017, 7:47 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
To be fair, this is true in very many places. It's not Vancouver's fault that life isn't as good for working people as it once was. This change is balanced by life being better for the rich now than it was in that era. It's unfortunate that the rich in Vancouver are a foreign, possibly transient, population but to a lesser degree, and with more diversity, the same can be said of London.
Yes, it's the effect of globalisation, isn't it. Attractive global cities pull in people and capital and that bids up the local housing market. I imagine in Winnipeg a retail sales person would be able to cobble together a mortgage in some far flung suburb.
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Old Dec 15th 2017, 10:04 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, it's the effect of globalisation, isn't it. Attractive global cities pull in people and capital and that bids up the local housing market. I imagine in Winnipeg a retail sales person would be able to cobble together a mortgage in some far flung suburb.
Probably. We could at our current income but our income would drop substantially in Winnipeg. If we could maintain BC income living in Winnipeg, I would move no issue.
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Old Dec 15th 2017, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Probably. We could at our current income but our income would drop substantially in Winnipeg. If we could maintain BC income living in Winnipeg, I would move no issue.
That's slightly unusual. I think my daughter, who lives in Vancouver, is more typical. She and her husband like Vancouver and stay there despite knowing that they would earn substantially more in Ontario and that, even without an increase in income, they would live in a much nicer property in Ontario.
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Old Dec 16th 2017, 5:27 am
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

The only reason we are paid what we are paid where I work is due to the high cost of living in Vancouver and it being an employees market for low skilled jobs, we have a difficult attracting applicants and so wages went up to try and attract and retain people.

Your daughter I believe is a professional type so obviously would experience differences to someone like me, low skill worker.

I don't think I could get 19.50/hr anywhere else in Canada with no formal training/skills.

Quick search on indeed, and looks like the going wage for my job at Winnipeg airport is 11-13/hr.

Looks like rent is in the 750-950 range in Winnipeg, so maybe we could be slightly better off in Winnipeg, but then a car would be a necessity as winter is far too cold to scooter...lol and heating costs would be higher, so it might be a wash in the end.

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
That's slightly unusual. I think my daughter, who lives in Vancouver, is more typical. She and her husband like Vancouver and stay there despite knowing that they would earn substantially more in Ontario and that, even without an increase in income, they would live in a much nicer property in Ontario.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 10:16 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
The only reason we are paid what we are paid where I work is due to the high cost of living in Vancouver and it being an employees market for low skilled jobs, we have a difficult attracting applicants and so wages went up to try and attract and retain people.

Your daughter I believe is a professional type so obviously would experience differences to someone like me, low skill worker.

I don't think I could get 19.50/hr anywhere else in Canada with no formal training/skills.

Quick search on indeed, and looks like the going wage for my job at Winnipeg airport is 11-13/hr.

Looks like rent is in the 750-950 range in Winnipeg, so maybe we could be slightly better off in Winnipeg, but then a car would be a necessity as winter is far too cold to scooter...lol and heating costs would be higher, so it might be a wash in the end.
I was just saying that Squamish in '84 wasn't the Big Vancouver satellite town that it is in '17.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 12:59 am
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I was just saying that Squamish in '84 wasn't the Big Vancouver satellite town that it is in '17.
Indeed it wasn't. It was a blue collar mill town back then for the most part.

Back then places like Abbotsford and Chilliwack weren't either, but today effectively are part of Vancouver even if not officially.

There really is nowhere affordable left anywhere in the lower mainland & Fraser Valley, and places like Kelowna are not affordable rental wise either, and also beyond our price range to own, Victoria the same.

Other then way up north or economically depressed towns like Port Alberni on the Island, there just isn't anywhere else to go anymore to get affordable housing in BC.

Even the northern part of BC isn't exactly affordable as the jobs I see pay less, heating costs more and the need for a car, so in the end, likely a wash and no real savings, especially when you consider the distances needed to travel for medical care and to get to a proper sized city for things.

Places like Chilliwack are affordable to own relative to Vancouver houses, but you still need a pretty good income to own out there, rents are cheaper, but there are a lack of jobs mostly service oriented food and retail type jobs, and well you need a car in places like that which increase cost of living.

We pay 800 more per month in Vancouver, but we pay less for transportation, so in the end it's really a wash since the car cost 300/month payment, 150/month for insurance, 160-200/month for gas so around 600-700/month min for a car plus add in the oil changes every few months, and higher cost of food, really I don't think we were better off out that way.

Now transportation costs $30/month for insurance and around $30/month for gas for the scooter, which is even cheaper then transit pass, but of course a scooter really isn't an option up north or in places with the need to transit on highways with min speed limits.

If I could make 25/hr on my own single income, we would move to Winnipeg or Atlantic Canada, 25/hr is about what is needed to maintain BC income including the disability wife gets.

Last edited by Jsmth321; Dec 18th 2017 at 1:13 am.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 9:05 am
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
not by the same margin though. The gap between average house prices and average salaries is the worse it has ever been in Vancouver.

12 Charts About Canadian Housing That Will Make You Go WTF
Interesting article. I don't think enough emphasis is given to foreign investors though. It would have been good to know just how many properties in Vancouver and Toronto are sold to real estate investment trusts/funds, holding companies and direct foreign buyers and how many of these investments vehicles are truly from offshore investors.


I'm yet to see some real quantifying off the foreign investor problem. I do believe foreign investments and real estate investment trusts/funds are to blame, I just think some cold statistics quantifying this would really highlight the issue. The Ontario and BC governments are so in bed with these investors that I'm sure they're making it difficult to quantify just how big their brown paper bags are.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 10:00 am
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Shakyuk View Post
Interesting article. I don't think enough emphasis is given to foreign investors though. It would have been good to know just how many properties in Vancouver and Toronto are sold to real estate investment trusts/funds, holding companies and direct foreign buyers and how many of these investments vehicles are truly from offshore investors.

I'm yet to see some real quantifying off the foreign investor problem. I do believe foreign investments and real estate investment trusts/funds are to blame, I just think some cold statistics quantifying this would really highlight the issue. The Ontario and BC governments are so in bed with these investors that I'm sure they're making it difficult to quantify just how big their brown paper bags are.
+1

Rising house prices tend to keep voters happy, so the door remains open for foreign investors. However, it's complicated by the rise in condo living which is something of a release valve in that couples and young families can live in condos until they have sufficient equity to purchase a house.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 2:12 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Shakyuk View Post
Interesting article. I don't think enough emphasis is given to foreign investors though. It would have been good to know just how many properties in Vancouver and Toronto are sold to real estate investment trusts/funds, holding companies and direct foreign buyers and how many of these investments vehicles are truly from offshore investors.


I'm yet to see some real quantifying off the foreign investor problem. I do believe foreign investments and real estate investment trusts/funds are to blame, I just think some cold statistics quantifying this would really highlight the issue. The Ontario and BC governments are so in bed with these investors that I'm sure they're making it difficult to quantify just how big their brown paper bags are.
Problem is the BC government only started to collect data on who property was being sold to about a year ago, and the liberals were very reluctant to do it. The data is collected by way of a self declaration when property is transferred, so it is next to useless. Some analysts in Vancouver have had to track it by way of 'students' and 'housewives' who own multi-million dollar properties.

If you want a really interesting story look up the way the BC lottery services and casinos in the lower mainland have been used as a laundry service for hot overseas money which is then used to invest in BC real estate. Charges laid in probe of alleged B.C. drug-cash money-laundering | Vancouver Sun
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
Problem is the BC government only started to collect data on who property was being sold to about a year ago, and the liberals were very reluctant to do it. The data is collected by way of a self declaration when property is transferred, so it is next to useless. Some analysts in Vancouver have had to track it by way of 'students' and 'housewives' who own multi-million dollar properties.

If you want a really interesting story look up the way the BC lottery services and casinos in the lower mainland have been used as a laundry service for hot overseas money which is then used to invest in BC real estate. Charges laid in probe of alleged B.C. drug-cash money-laundering | Vancouver Sun
Statistics Canada is releasing foreign investment data tomorrow:

StatsCan To Unveil Foreign Investor Data On Toronto, Vancouver Housing Markets
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 4:29 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by dominiqueincanada View Post
Statistics Canada is releasing foreign investment data tomorrow:

StatsCan To Unveil Foreign Investor Data On Toronto, Vancouver Housing Markets
Cool. Thanks for that heads up.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
+1

Rising house prices tend to keep voters happy, so the door remains open for foreign investors. However, it's complicated by the rise in condo living which is something of a release valve in that couples and young families can live in condos until they have sufficient equity to purchase a house.
In Vancouver there really is no housing ladder anymore and a condo is even out of range for more and more families/people.

Using CMHC affordability calculator and 50k down, they say max price of 408,000, assuming no debt, 200/month taxes, 300/month condo fees, 50/month electric.

There are currently 0 2bedroom condos on the market in that range, and only around 12 in that range in the 0 bedroom to 1 bedroom range.

Not even condos are affordable options anymore.

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Old Dec 18th 2017, 6:37 pm
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Default Re: Review of Vancouver after 18 months

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
In Vancouver there really is no housing ladder anymore and a condo is even out of range for more and more families/people.

Using CMHC affordability calculator and 50k down, they say max price of 408,000, assuming no debt, 200/month taxes, 300/month condo fees, 50/month electric.

There are currently 0 2bedroom condos on the market in that range, and only around 12 in that range in the 0 bedroom to 1 bedroom range.

Not even condos are affordable options anymore.
Regardless of housing prices, I don't think it would make financial sense for you to buy. Assuming a mortgage of $358k ($408k with $50k down) at 3%, your monthly payments would be $1,694.22 (https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/buho/buho_021.cfm). Once you add in property taxes, strata maintenance fees and general upkeep it is much better to rent.
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