red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
Sep 3rd 2013, 9:33 pm
#16
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
A most excellent, informative and helpful post not2old, many thanks for taking the time and trouble to collect all the information and post it.
Perhaps you could also copy it to the wiki for future reference.
Many thanks for your kindness.
Sep 3rd 2013, 9:40 pm
#17
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
thanks for that Linda
And for those looking at doing this I'm sure Linda is going through the full process & can share the experience of her & her husband, but I'd like to share with you what I found out today calling around the ever so complicated COT, Apprenticeship branch of the Ontario government & BTW I'm now retired & licensed in Ontario in two different skilled trades - Electrician (309A & 442A) + Industrial mechanic Millwright 433A
The 'Red Seal' is not a qualification. It is an endorsement to those that pass a trades (Certificate of Qualification) C of Q at 70% or better (I know because I have one). The standard pass mark for the (College of Trades) C of Q in a trade is 60% - but the (Red Seal) sticker on the certificate is called an inter-provincial qualification which allows the tradesperson to work in any province in a qualified trade without having to re-sit the exam in another province
This morning I made several calls to the college of trades in Toronto as well as visited two different Ontario apprenticeship branches where they conduct the C of Q exams. Long chats & believe me I don't take a NO very easily.
The rules as of this morning are that yes someone can challenge the exam from overseas as a visitor, but first must
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/member...ade-assessment
A) Fill in the assessment form available on line at the college of trades (COT) website & return OR MAIL it back to them. Its not just a walk in & let me have an assessment then 5 days later write the exam
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/wp-con...essment_EN.pdf
B) Once the college of trades receive the trade equivalency assessment form, FIRST step is the application for assessment is sent to the Ministry Of colleges & university (MCU). They & they alone do the assessment. That done the file is sent back to the COT - they will then contact the approved applicant to come in for the interview. If they pass the interview - then & only then will they be allowed to take the exam.
The exam is not a cake walk - good knowledge of the electrical code is what can make or break the mark for an experienced out of country electrician (or any trade) challenging the exam, but if you have good trade experience from where you are at as a tradesperson & are good at remembering parrot fashion after reading a book like war & peace (my interpretation of the electrical code) - then you should be OK. Try to find & pay for if necessary on-line sample test papers
C) Yes you could be here on a visitor visa for 6 months, walk in & get the assessment form - fill it out - but its a least two weeks before you get the answer back as to whether you are accepted or not to write the exam
D) Under the Federal Skills program (once you have the C of Q) it looks (my interpretation) as though an applicant must get an employer to offer them work to the proposed immigrant (offer of employment) before CIC will give them the visa to enter Canada as a PR ... then again some folks do & don't depending on other factors in the points based system
And for those looking at doing this I'm sure Linda is going through the full process & can share the experience of her & her husband, but I'd like to share with you what I found out today calling around the ever so complicated COT, Apprenticeship branch of the Ontario government & BTW I'm now retired & licensed in Ontario in two different skilled trades - Electrician (309A & 442A) + Industrial mechanic Millwright 433A
The 'Red Seal' is not a qualification. It is an endorsement to those that pass a trades (Certificate of Qualification) C of Q at 70% or better (I know because I have one). The standard pass mark for the (College of Trades) C of Q in a trade is 60% - but the (Red Seal) sticker on the certificate is called an inter-provincial qualification which allows the tradesperson to work in any province in a qualified trade without having to re-sit the exam in another province
This morning I made several calls to the college of trades in Toronto as well as visited two different Ontario apprenticeship branches where they conduct the C of Q exams. Long chats & believe me I don't take a NO very easily.
The rules as of this morning are that yes someone can challenge the exam from overseas as a visitor, but first must
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/member...ade-assessment
A) Fill in the assessment form available on line at the college of trades (COT) website & return OR MAIL it back to them. Its not just a walk in & let me have an assessment then 5 days later write the exam
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/wp-con...essment_EN.pdf
B) Once the college of trades receive the trade equivalency assessment form, FIRST step is the application for assessment is sent to the Ministry Of colleges & university (MCU). They & they alone do the assessment. That done the file is sent back to the COT - they will then contact the approved applicant to come in for the interview. If they pass the interview - then & only then will they be allowed to take the exam.
The exam is not a cake walk - good knowledge of the electrical code is what can make or break the mark for an experienced out of country electrician (or any trade) challenging the exam, but if you have good trade experience from where you are at as a tradesperson & are good at remembering parrot fashion after reading a book like war & peace (my interpretation of the electrical code) - then you should be OK. Try to find & pay for if necessary on-line sample test papers
C) Yes you could be here on a visitor visa for 6 months, walk in & get the assessment form - fill it out - but its a least two weeks before you get the answer back as to whether you are accepted or not to write the exam
D) Under the Federal Skills program (once you have the C of Q) it looks (my interpretation) as though an applicant must get an employer to offer them work to the proposed immigrant (offer of employment) before CIC will give them the visa to enter Canada as a PR ... then again some folks do & don't depending on other factors in the points based system
Under the FSW (Trades) it is either C of Q or a job offer, you are not required to have both in order to qualify and apply.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra.../apply-who.asp
"... have an offer of full-time employment for a total period of at least one year** or a certificate of qualification in that skilled trade issued by a provincial or territorial body... "
Sep 3rd 2013, 9:55 pm
#18
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
in Ontario in a mandatory licensed trade you wont get hired without the C of Q, & in some cases one must be a member of a Union, especially in the construction trades such as Electrician, plumber etc ... catch 22
Its a con by the feds to make it look good IMO
Out of work tradespeople in a union ... and the feds are inviting skilled labour from outside the country
When I got off the boat with my UK qualifications, the first question I was asked was 'do you have any Canadian experience'... get a life will you I thought to myself. Then again times change don't they.
So why would I hire an out of country tradesperson even if they had a Canadian C of Q when I can get me a local apprentice trained in the union qualified tradespersom eh!
Think of it in reverse as someone going to the UK taking or trying to take jobs away from skilled craftspeople. Maybe I'm too old & missing something so please forgive for that
Its a con by the feds to make it look good IMO
Out of work tradespeople in a union ... and the feds are inviting skilled labour from outside the country
When I got off the boat with my UK qualifications, the first question I was asked was 'do you have any Canadian experience'... get a life will you I thought to myself. Then again times change don't they.
So why would I hire an out of country tradesperson even if they had a Canadian C of Q when I can get me a local apprentice trained in the union qualified tradespersom eh!
Think of it in reverse as someone going to the UK taking or trying to take jobs away from skilled craftspeople. Maybe I'm too old & missing something so please forgive for that
Last edited by not2old; Sep 3rd 2013 at 10:11 pm.
Sep 3rd 2013, 10:00 pm
#19
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
in Ontario in a mandatory trade you wont get hired without the C of Q, & in some cases one must be a member of a Union, especially in the construction trades such as Electrician, plumber etc ... catch 22
Its a con by the feds to make it look good IMO
Out of work tradespeople in a union ... and the feds are inviting skilled labour from outside the country
Its a con by the feds to make it look good IMO
Out of work tradespeople in a union ... and the feds are inviting skilled labour from outside the country
Sep 3rd 2013, 10:06 pm
#20
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
I understand that about Ontario, but not all trades are regulated or require mandatory C of Q in all the Provinces - hence the 'either / or' in the application requirements. 'Trades' covers a lot of different professions so I presume they had to have that caveat in there to cover the trades that do not require C of Q in order to work.
Agree, but this thread was about Electricians Siouxie
Requirement 4 from the FSW, which, too me looks like a catch 22 - you all decide
Requirement 4 - Offer of employment OR certificate of qualification in a skilled trade occupation
You must have either a qualifying offer of employment (see below) OR a certificate of qualification from a Canadian province or territory in the skilled trade occupation you specify in your application.
You must either:
hold a certificate of qualification issued by a competent Canadian provincial/territorial authority in the skilled trade occupation you specified in your application;
OR
have an offer of employment from up to two employers for continuous, full-time work in Canada for a total period of at least one year in the skilled trade occupation you specified in your application.
Depending on your circumstances, the requirements for a valid offer of employment in Canada are different. You have a valid offer of employment if your circumstances match one of the situations described in the information below.
Please don't shoot the messenger
Last edited by not2old; Sep 3rd 2013 at 10:19 pm.
Sep 3rd 2013, 10:17 pm
#21
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
No need to bow out not2old! You have given very valuable and informative information and it is very much appreciated, as is your taking the time to both make the enquiries and post.
(written before you edited your post)
Sep 3rd 2013, 10:53 pm
#22
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
for those considering coming to Canada under the FSW category, there compulsory & voluntary (non compulsory) trades that folks need to have C of Q in, however coming from overseas, try to get a job without a C of Q may be difficult.
Yes, I agree its best to have all your ducks lined up - highly skilled, highly qualified, the right age, money help too as does going to a province where you will find work in your trade
Some of you will have seen or be aware of the following information about the trades in Canada (particularly Ontario) - I am providing the list from the COT. Markers are used for compulsory & voluntary trades
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/about/trades-in-ontario
and of course the list of eligible occupations (excuse me if this has been posted elsewhere)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...pand=jobs#jobs
the 7 group in the following link are the trades
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...h.aspx?val65=*
other info
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...1/Welcome.aspx
Yes, I agree its best to have all your ducks lined up - highly skilled, highly qualified, the right age, money help too as does going to a province where you will find work in your trade
Some of you will have seen or be aware of the following information about the trades in Canada (particularly Ontario) - I am providing the list from the COT. Markers are used for compulsory & voluntary trades
http://www.collegeoftrades.ca/about/trades-in-ontario
and of course the list of eligible occupations (excuse me if this has been posted elsewhere)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...pand=jobs#jobs
the 7 group in the following link are the trades
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...h.aspx?val65=*
other info
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/...1/Welcome.aspx
Last edited by not2old; Sep 3rd 2013 at 10:58 pm.
Sep 3rd 2013, 11:15 pm
#23
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
The eligible occupations for the FSW (Trades) is this one: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...plications.asp the link in the previous post is for the FSW occupations.
Sep 4th 2013, 4:28 pm
#24
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: red seal exam for uk electrician and federal skilled trades visa
This post is not meant to discourage anyone, simply adding to the reality check
An after thought to my post 20 & 22 with respect to the C of Q or job offer.
Most qualified tradespeople coming to Ontario Canada from overseas, I would say (wild guessing) are those in the compulsory licensed trades
Automotive mechanics
Electrician
Elevator
Gas fitting/installer/service
HVAC
Hoist engineer
Plumber
Steamfitter
Sheet metal workers/installers
even Hairstylist/Hairdressing is compulsory - for petes sake
As an employer I know you need to be compulsory C of Q certified in those trades. You as the prospective immigrant will come over, take the C of Q and start to look for work. There is also a requirement in some of those trades to be a member of the trade union.
You may be lucky, you may know someone ... but do you have Canadian experience? You're coming competing against the local lads/gals, you may have 10, 15 or 20 years under your belt. I would be frustrated if I could not be hired because, after all I am provincially C of Q with loads of experience.
At some point in time 3-6 months having not found that trade specific job at your level you may get really frustrated. In some cases (I suggest) its possible to start lower on the ladder, get a foot in - learn the local way of working & jargon - maybe a job as a tradesperson helper for 6 - 12 months ... learn the ropes, look for a tradespersons job after that.
Knowing what I know from what I have heard from many immigrants from all walks of life, I personally wouldn't come to Canada with the hope an expectation of immediately thinking I'd step right in at the level of what I left off from in the UK. If you are one of the lucky ones - then great
As in any profession - not just trades, some have to go around the monopoly board, loops & slides, snakes & ladders - get re-certified, even go back to school. Its just bloody frustrating eh!
Food for thought
An after thought to my post 20 & 22 with respect to the C of Q or job offer.
Most qualified tradespeople coming to Ontario Canada from overseas, I would say (wild guessing) are those in the compulsory licensed trades
Automotive mechanics
Electrician
Elevator
Gas fitting/installer/service
HVAC
Hoist engineer
Plumber
Steamfitter
Sheet metal workers/installers
even Hairstylist/Hairdressing is compulsory - for petes sake
As an employer I know you need to be compulsory C of Q certified in those trades. You as the prospective immigrant will come over, take the C of Q and start to look for work. There is also a requirement in some of those trades to be a member of the trade union.
You may be lucky, you may know someone ... but do you have Canadian experience? You're coming competing against the local lads/gals, you may have 10, 15 or 20 years under your belt. I would be frustrated if I could not be hired because, after all I am provincially C of Q with loads of experience.
At some point in time 3-6 months having not found that trade specific job at your level you may get really frustrated. In some cases (I suggest) its possible to start lower on the ladder, get a foot in - learn the local way of working & jargon - maybe a job as a tradesperson helper for 6 - 12 months ... learn the ropes, look for a tradespersons job after that.
Knowing what I know from what I have heard from many immigrants from all walks of life, I personally wouldn't come to Canada with the hope an expectation of immediately thinking I'd step right in at the level of what I left off from in the UK. If you are one of the lucky ones - then great
As in any profession - not just trades, some have to go around the monopoly board, loops & slides, snakes & ladders - get re-certified, even go back to school. Its just bloody frustrating eh!
Food for thought
Last edited by not2old; Sep 4th 2013 at 4:44 pm.
