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realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
The three biggest differences between here and the UK are:

1) Realtors deal with the contract to purchase, and pass a completed contract onto the Lawyers.
That's a step-by-step legal process and should come with a fixed price. Any lawyer should be able to do this as conveyancing (or whatever it's called here) should be bread and butter to them.

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
2) The whole principle of co-operation with other Realtors to form the very powerful "Multiple Listing Service" that allows us to sell each others listings. This is also slowly changing our roles to those of Buyers Agent & Sellers Agent, many provinces have already made this change so that there is a clear client relationship in every transaction.
I wouldn't be boasting about MLS. realtor.ca is just awful when compared to rightmove.co.uk.

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
3) Realtors have to be trained and licensed by their Provincial Governments who also oversea their continuing education (we have to take a course each year before our licence is renewed) We are also accountable by specific legislation in MB "The Real Estate Act" as well as other general laws.
This legislation protects realtors more than the general public.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
I wouldn't be boasting about MLS. realtor.ca is just awful when compared to rightmove.co.uk.
The mls site used to be quite good, it's only recently that it's had that awful interface grafted on. I suppose it's maintained grudgingly as the people paying for it are the people who's livelihood would be threatened by a better implementation.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
The mls site used to be quite good, it's only recently that it's had that awful interface grafted on. I suppose it's maintained grudgingly as the people paying for it are the people who's livelihood would be threatened by a better implementation.
Yes - I think you are right.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 5:54 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
That's a step-by-step legal process and should come with a fixed price. Any lawyer should be able to do this as conveyancing (or whatever it's called here) should be bread and butter to them.


They don't want the hassle of being a Realtor or they would have started doing it during the last 100 years, (they could start anytime as they are legally entitled to deal in real estate, but would have to become Realtors to participate in the MLS) as they haven't, its not what they want to do.


I wouldn't be boasting about MLS. realtor.ca is just awful when compared to rightmove.co.uk.

You don't know anything about the MLS systems, all you see is the public interface for marketing property, it is not the MLS.
Hence its name change to Realtor.ca



This legislation protects realtors more than the general public.
You have obviously never read one word of the relevant Acts.

Last edited by MB-Realtor; Aug 12th 2009 at 5:56 pm.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
The mls site used to be quite good, it's only recently that it's had that awful interface grafted on. I suppose it's maintained grudgingly as the people paying for it are the people who's livelihood would be threatened by a better implementation.
The biggest problem with Realtor.ca is that it brings together information from all the different MLS systems, all using different software.

There is no nationwide MLS, each Board has its own system.

Its a miracle they have all been made to talk to Realtor.ca, but you do end up with only being able to provide a lowest common denominator type of system.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

No I haven't read the legislation - but any legislation that puts up barriers to entry into a market ultimately protects those already in the market. Doesn't matter what the details of the legislation actually are.

I still don't get your point about MLS - so you enter details into a secret network that only realtors can see? That isn't providing a service, that is protecting your revenue stream.

Either way - you haven't given a good reason why I can't get that 4% back if I organize my own negotiation, lawyers, surveys etc.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by sharkus View Post
A very interesting thread indeed.

We had been looking at houses for a few years whilst renting, and did not employ a realtor to act for us. We just felt it easier to jump on MLS and have a look around and if we saw something we liked we'd either go to an open house or make a viewing appointment.

Most of the realtors we met were very friendly and knowledgeable. They were all happy to send us listings of properties that matched what we were looking for.

In the end, after a long, exhausting day of viewing houses we happened to stumble across a rather nice house that was being privately sold by the owners. We decided to have a look and have to say head won over heart when we walked into the place, but alas it was out of our price range.

We continued our search and a month or so later happened upon another house for sale in the same street we'd seen the other one. We'd expected the original place to have been sold, but it was still for sale. We looked at both places and the original one was still the one we liked, and the price had dropped and was right in our sweet spot.

We asked why they were selling privately and the owners made no bones that they disliked realtors, I believe "blood sucking bastards" was the exact phrase used. Obviously the chap didn't have much love for realtors for various reasons which they didn't really discuss.

We were somewhat daunted at this point, because we wanted to put in an offer, but we're first time buyers and as there would be no realtors involved we were not sure what to do. Thankfully our Mortgage Broker (Tom Hogg) went above and beyond the call of duty to help us out. Obviously he secured us a mortgage, but he also had a realtor colleague run the comparibles for the area, showed us the info and we agreed that we were getting a very good deal. He also recommended a lawyer (D. Kevin Haxell) and home inspector (Marco Ganassini) (he knew and had used both, for professional basis' and also personally for his own home - can't get a better recommendation than that!).

The offer was written up and put in, and barring exceptions (finance and inspection), and accepted. We then had the inspector come in and look the place over. He gave it an A rating, and said it was a very good house. Finance was sorted and the deal was done!

I cannot thank Tom enough, as I think he played the part a realtor would have done and that's not his major function.

From a buyers point of view it was relatively painless, and we do wonder what a realtor would have done differently for us. My guess is they would have dealt directly with the sellers/lawyers/inspectors and given us papers to sign, but I could be wrong.

I will say that we probably will use a realtor when selling as I think that side of things is way more time consuming and complex than buying.
Interesting anecdote. I've highlighted what I think is something quite important. In the UK you can do that yourself using mouseprice.com or nethouseprices.co.uk, is there such a service in Canada?
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
The biggest problem with Realtor.ca is that it brings together information from all the different MLS systems, all using different software.
That, fortunately for we integrators, is the norm these days. I don't doubt that there are consequent data integrity issues, indeed I often see houses on the map of Ontario that, when selected, turn out to be in other provinces.

However, in my view the primary problem with the site is that it tries to present too much information and that prevents it from showing useful information. Suppose, for example, I want to see detached houses in Orangeville ON; I go to the site, enter the place name and it starts churning, trying to put hundreds of blobs on a map most of which represent houses outside my price range. If I then try to shift the map a mile over I have to wait for many more blobs to be configured; it's awkward and cumbersome. If it didn't have the map interface but instead had selection criteria "within 50 miles of Orangeville", "$300,000-$400,000", "detached", it would, and indeed did, work better.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
No I haven't read the legislation - but any legislation that puts up barriers to entry into a market ultimately protects those already in the market. Doesn't matter what the details of the legislation actually are.

Read the legislation. each provinces is on-line, then you can discuss this with a least a small level of knowledge


I still don't get your point about MLS - so you enter details into a secret network that only realtors can see? That isn't providing a service, that is protecting your revenue stream.

You or anyone else is entirely free to start a competing system, most municpialities will provide you with the information about individual house and property sales, its so very simple, you need only collate it and market it to the public.


Either way - you haven't given a good reason why I can't get that 4% back if I organize my own negotiation, lawyers, surveys etc.

Please, Please sell it yourself, at least then you will get the level of expertise and service that you paid for.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
That, fortunately for we integrators, is the norm these days. I don't doubt that there are consequent data integrity issues, indeed I often see houses on the map of Ontario that, when selected, turn out to be in other provinces.

However, in my view the primary problem with the site is that it tries to present too much information and that prevents it from showing useful information. Suppose, for example, I want to see detached houses in Orangeville ON; I go to the site, enter the place name and it starts churning, trying to put hundreds of blobs on a map most of which represent houses outside my price range. If I then try to shift the map a mile over I have to wait for many more blobs to be configured; it's awkward and cumbersome. If it didn't have the map interface but instead had selection criteria "within 50 miles of Orangeville", "$300,000-$400,000", "detached", it would, and indeed did, work better.

We don't like it either, they keep working at it, but like so many things its been made "Pretty" rather than usefull.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
I don't own a house yet - I'll be purchasing. I can't force people selling there houses to me to not use a realtor, hence I can't get the 4% back.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
I don't own a house yet - I'll be purchasing. I can't force people selling there houses to me to not use a realtor, hence I can't get the 4% back.
You could limit yourself to fsbo properties. Not that I think this would get you a cheaper house.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:20 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
Actually if most municipalities provide this free electronically then there is definitely scope for a price history website - I may even look into this idea myself, might be a money spinner.
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:21 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

It seems that the only person here defending Realtors is Stuart.

Do we presume the other realtors (at least one of whom is only too keen to self promote when the opportunity arises (how are things in Van today?)) feel that their 'position' is indefensible? OR are they currently so busy they dont have time (things looking good south of Calgary guys?) OR do they also see the futility of yet another property/realtor thread?
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Old Aug 12th 2009, 6:22 pm
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Default Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
You could limit yourself to fsbo properties. Not that I think this would get you a cheaper house.
Me neither - I don't hate realtors. I dislike the system - realtors are just individuals working within it and as such they will naturally defend it. As I said, if I was selling I'd probably use a realtor as I can kind of see the value they add - but as a purchaser I can't see it at all really and it bugs me that I'll be paying for nothing.
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