realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Realtors have a strange concept of their importance on this continent.
Their relationship with their vendors can be quite creepy and bounds people with weird concepts of loyalty
Equally people seem happy to part with vast sums of money in using Canadian realtors

My girlfriend used to be an estate agent in England prior to the crash. Typically the fee to sell a house used to be around 1.5% on the final selling price
Also remax did not take off in England after breaching rules, annoying the ombudsman and basically ripping off vulnerable people.

We have a great Canadian friend here who has just sold her townhouse. She had difficulty in getting viewings and her realtor really was not working for her. She would not change her realtor though in case he would take away her loyalty to him after using him in the past and securing a "great deal" from him on this sale.
Its a weird concept like apartment loyalty cards psychologically making you think that as a customer you must be loyal to the store else you miss out
Our friend feels she must be totaly loyal to her realtor to get a great deal.
Its like some stepford brainwashing experiment but this is the power these people seem to wield. one realtor suggests that she is your professional financial life expert when clearly she looks more like a clone of Sarah Palin together with the thousand yard stare!



When you look at realtors and the cheesy newspaper adverts heralding their overblown expertise.......One must ask who in their right mind would employ these people at the prices they command to sell your house its a joke and ultimately as we all hate estate agents........would an English system of selling houses work and provide greater value for money for the customer ....Thoughts please!

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

If you have a house to sell and don't like the fee a real estate agent will charge to list it use one of the "for sale by owner" services such as The Property Guys.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

It's totally wrong to consider that your friend's loyalty is an across-the-board situation. Personally it has not been my experience that vendors have much, if any, such loyalties. Most people, if R/E agent not working sufficiently hard, will drop them at the expiration of the listing.
The selling fee is negotiable and while I don't have much time for R/E agents in general, some of them work very hard and maintain very unsociable hours.
I'm interested to know what is the British system other than lower selling commissions. What does a UK R/E agent do/not do that a Canadian one does/does not?

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Typically commissions in the UK are 1.5% or so of sale, but they don't do the legal side. That's done by a lawyer and is a fixed price. The biggest single cost for the purchaser is usually stamp duty which goes in stages up to 4% max.

Sorry if you know this already.

For me the days of both should be numbered - the internet provides enough information for buyers and sellers and the legal stuff is just a process that can be followed by anybody. Probably the only reason they still exist is that they are a 'profession' protected by the government through legistaltion.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Our realtor couldn't do enough for us. I first met her on our reccie 4 months before we moved. They regularly sent homes for sale via email. On the day we emigrated to NS, she even bought a cat litter and tray for us and delivered it to our temp accommodation (not arranged through them) and refused money.

It wasn't until 5 weeks later we saw the house for us. During that time our realtor drove us around showing homes and told us lots about the local area. We received all the info we needed as newcomers.

On the day we bought our home, it was a done deal by 9pm that very same night. Because we bought our home outright, our total fees were approx $300 to our lawyer, around $300-$400 for our survey, and no realtor fees :-)

I think I am right in saying that in Canada, homes can be advertised with one realtor company, but any realtor can sell it and collect the commission.

What I noticed as being different here is that Realtors show you around the homes, the owners always go out.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Agreed - but you should be able to do it yourself if you wish (if you botch it you've only got yourself to blame tho)

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Here is a previous thread on what a Canadian Realtor (me) does:-


http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527544


The major differences between the UK and Canada.

1) It is illegal in Canada to deal in real estate for a third party unless you are licensed, you must pass exams and be licensed by your Provincial Government. Real estate transactions are governed by many different laws and regulations.

2) The Realtor writes up the contract of sale, which is binding on both parties and not the lawyers. The lawyers ensure that the contract as written by the Realtors is processed correctly, deal with the title transfer and the mortgage.

3) Realtors, from different brokerages, co-operate in the sale process.

It is a system that has been in place since the early 1900's, its a system that works, and its a system that is being continually improved and regulated to further protect both buyer and seller.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

I'd like to know how you feel about it when you are selling. The experience can be a different kettle of fish when you are struggling to sell, instead of when you wash up on these shores with a wad of cash to buy a house and the R/E is merely showing you around a lot of houses within your criteria - obviously in this situation, your R/E is getting the commission from the sellers R/E.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

It is illegal in Canada to deal in real estate for a third party unless you are licensed, you must pass exams and be licensed by your Provincial Government. Real estate transactions are governed by many different laws and regulations.

So, are UK realtors not licensed or "educated".

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

No - that's why you use a lawyer. And you use your own lawyer if you have any sense - you don't use one recommended by the estate agent (same goes for mortgage brokers / surveyors). I'd apply the same logic in Canada wherever it applied - I wouldn't trust a realtor to recommend someone to do the building survey (or whatever they call it here).

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

NO, they are neither licenced or quite honestly educated either....in my many years of experience in buying and selling many, many house in the UK, the whole UK system is just dreadful...liars, cheats, dishonest estate agents....so, do not mistake my 'take' on the UK market in any other way...

here in canada, very different with realtors. yes, they might be seen as being 'loyal' to you and your needs but actually, at least they do show you a modicum of honesty, they do do the donkey work and they are, most importantly, accountable.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

I agree with you.

Now and again Realtors come up with lists of what they do in Canada. I've not seen anything remotely close to justifying 5% commission on a sale. If it is 5% thats $30,000 for a $600,000 house - I'd be interested to see a breakdown of activities and costs to justify that.

I think it is worthwhile having regulation for businesses undertaking legal aspects of the transaction. In the UK, or England at least don't know about Scotland, that could be a lawyer or a licensed conveyancer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensed_Conveyancer

The cost of this part of the transaction is relatively small and its easy enough to get fixed fee quotes for this. In my experience the lawyers/conveyancers charge fees in bands in relation to the value of the house. The proportion of the fee to the house value falls with increasing house values.

I've not really followed it but there was a proposal to introduce regulation to the estate agent industry in the UK. Last I had heard it had been dropped which is a good thing. It would just add costs to the customer without adding any value. Essentially it's a sales and marketing operation which needs no regulation. It would also add artificial barriers to entry to new entrants to the market, again elevating prices for the customer.

Selling Houses Yourself!
 

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Our next move should be downsizing so I will see when that happens. I may even sell privately by owner :)

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

The realtor business is an easy entry business; unlike a dentist, doctor and so on, where 4/5 years of study is required and that's just the ticket to get in!
I think the realtors are paid to much and that their profession is not commensurate with their efforts or perceived education.

Realtors are saleman; that's it and nothing else, nothing wrong in that. The legal part of the sale should be on the shoulders of an appointed lawyer and the survey/inspection side should be undertaken by a qualified surveyor.

I'm proceeding with the purchase of a property on VI. The realtor pulled the title and was talking me through it's contents, it took me 30 seconds to realise he was full of sh*t and had no idea what most of the content actually meant. In fairness I do have some knowledge in this area, and spend half my days trawling through similar documents, however your normal punter would be none the wiser..."Leave it to a lawyer"!

This numpty will get a share of $75,000.00 for his incompetence..nice money if you can get it...

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

No idea how long it takes to do the realtor exams from a position of knowing nothing. Assume it's 6mos or so, but that's a total guess.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

But that doesn't make for easy entry. The months, perhaps years, of not making a living wage is a barrier to entry.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

I will next time YCD. We will downsize next too. My neighbour has just sold his for $370,000 ( quite expensive for around here ) and it cost him $750 with Prop Guys. He still has the same legal fees as he would if using a R/E but has saved himself some $30,000.

It sold within 6 weeks.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

The fees are certainly huge! More people are computer savvy these days too so advertising online will still attract lots of potential buyers. The Dignans bought there home in a private sale. :)

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Agreed

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Yep, for the most part, agreed with you. I can't stand the cheesy photos they put on the signs! When i had my house on the market i went with a chap who didn't do all that. Some of the viewer's agents (another concept i struggle with) were a total joke. Clueless!!! Even my realtor couldn't believe it. Turning up for appointments 2 hours late and thinking it's OK not to call.

I've heard some bad things about Re/max .... well Remax quebec anyways. They like to bleed their staff to the bone.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

I would be interested too, in my own thoughts on the process and costs if I was paying the bill :sneaky:

I have a generally positive view of the realtor I used when I purchased - he worked hard for me, gave me many, many hours of his time and was still working at 11.30pm on the day of the offer - and assisted with (what I felt to be) good points about houses I viewed, and the one I eventually bought. However, I suspect he picked up about $12k +++ for that work. Not a bad return on his time.

I'm not sure that I would be loyal to use him for selling my home.

The selling realtor gets a bad rap because, after writing up the details of the house - sometimes poorly - and placing the house on Realtor.ca, they are often not really seen to do much else. Is there any positive marketing, local papers, open days, etc, etc? And they likewise pick up the other half of the commission.

BUT the realtors here pay a significant sum to learn their trade, pay significant sums to Real Estate offices to work legally, need insurance, pay fees to Realtor.ca, the usual car and petrol costs, and as a Buyer's Agent, invest in tons and tons of hours of work before finally closing a sale. I've considered it as a job, but I would not be dedicated enough on the hours required to build up the business!

I worked in an estate agents office in the UK for a year. The guys there were salesmen. Not professional nor specifically educated - some were great, skilled, honest and good at their job and worked their butts off. Others were bumbling fools and liars to boot. Seemed a bit hit and miss.

The North American system works here because it has worked here for decades and people will and do pay the fees.

The UK residents would not pay those enormous fees.

The way of the website-based sell-your-own systems will continue to gain ground I suspect.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

... as it should be.

It's a pity tesco never did this. Would love to see wal-mart or costco do something similar here - the potential is there for sure as the margins are huge.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Sorry for being so ignorant but has the real estate selling buisness changed in the UK in recent years.

When we sold our house 7 years ago, our estate agent phoned us up and said there is a showing at ...such a time. We would then stay in and show the house to the prospective buyers. After 6 days we had an offer, but it was my husband and the buyer who talked on the phone. There was no deposit and we could not set a date for moving until two weeks before!! hence due to a mess up by someone down the line, we had to book flights and emigrate before the house was sold. The agent for his 1.5% put the ad in the paper for one week, took a few photos and sat back and collected the money, We did not see him on moving out day, no thankyou card or leaving gift.

No flyers were put around the area, it was not advertised on an national site, no open houses, bascially very little.

As for when we brought, we had to look in the paper and find a house that we liked and then phone the agent to make a showing and go our selves to see it and then make an offer on what we thought was best, no evaluation of what houses in the area had sold for.


When we moved here and brought our current house our realtor picked us up and drove us to several houses. She was able to show us any house which was for sale. She was able to find out what local houses had sold for and whether the house we brought was over priced or not. Do they do that in the UK yet or do you still have to contact every agent asking them what they have for you?

From what i remember and it may have changed in recent years, real estate agents did very little for their little money, and a house was never sold until the day you moved out and the money was in the bank.

There is also an awful lot of realtors. Here in Cochrane they say there is about 100 realtors, and if you are not good and doing a good service then there are another 99 realtors who will take your client and sell their house for you.


I am a licensed realtor and it just seems to me that we do earn more per deal, but there is much more competition so we have to do a good job. It also seems that we do a lot more to earn our money.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Well I am completely inexperienced in Canadian Reality Market except for our recent purchase, but our Realtor worked her behind off for us! We met her initially in the UK at an Expo, we kept in contact, and she arranged for free tickets to a Expo this year. We were in constant contact, once we knew received our paperwork, we wrote a list of requirements that we wanted and sent it to her, she checked out the market and location and sent us links to houses that fitted our criteria. We choose some that we wanted to view, she vetted them to make sure the location was appropriate for us. Once we had landed she came and picked us up, drove us to each property, was realistic about neighborhoods, location etc. She arranged a second viewing that day for us, she walked us through the whole process, she sorted out the offer so that we could put it in that day, she drove us back to the property, she explained what was happening with the offer. Offer accepted:D she arranged an inspection for a day later.............Yes I understand we are not paying for her time the seller is, but for us she was a gem and believe me you wouldn't get that service in the UK in my experience.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

It never ceases to amaze me how often one hears that people are amazed that realtors drive them to houses, etc.

I have said it before and I will say it again, in 10 years of legal practice in England, I never sued an estate agent on behalf of a client. In Canada I am asked to do so on a monthly basis.

I understand that a Grade 12 education is the only educational requirement for entry. I am sure that, sometimes, they work long hours and that competition is fierce. Whether they are worth the fees they charge is for the payor of those fees to determine.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

They get sued here because they are accountable, and are expected to act professionally, so if they don't people sue (In the UK Estate Agents only advertise the property).

They also get sued because they have professioanal liability insurance and the Lawyers know this, so its is nearly always the Home Seller + the Realtor + the Brokerage that get sued. I am sure you know that those with the deepest pockets are always "tacked onto" an action whenever possible.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

I've bought/sold a couple of houses here in the UK. IMO I don't think it would be a great idea to adopt the UK system.

I've had transactions which estate agents have assured me are 'very straightforward' and that they should complete within 6 weeks. None of them completed in less than 12 weeks. The process is fraught with the possibility of gazumping (or whatever it is), last minute pull-outs, last minute demands for money "or I'm pulling out"..., solicitors who fail to communicate, the list goes on...

I tried to avoid estate agents to begin with but there is no site in the UK that attracts a decent amount of trade to independently sell your house. All the big sites only let estate agents sell. Booo!

I've yet to experience the Canadian way, but it can't be much worse...can it?

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Property does seems to attract spiv's doesn't it.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Negligence, fiduciary duty and misrepresentation exist in English law as well.

They get sued here because, some of them, act appallingly. Just as some lawyers, some doctors, some teachers etc. do. Invariably, they are sued due to a failure to disclose.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

There seems to be a recurring theme of 'realtor bashing' on this site recently. I'm not sure why....

Okay, they can earn good money. For that, many of them seem to work damn hard and put in long hours. There are many many jobs that pay more, where people do less.

Whether or not to use a realtor is a personal choice. There are options to sell your house yourself if you so choose. Many try this, but many come unstuck at some point in the process and opt to use a realtor in the end. Therefore, they obviously provide a service that is useful to many people.

There are bound to be incompetent realtors, just as there are lawyers, builders etc etc. Like other posters have said, it is a regulated profession, where people have to undergo an examination process and it costs a considerable amount of money to establish yourself in real estate. Many realtors do an excellent job and have integrity. All too frequently it's very easy to take cheap shots at people's careers without thinking about it.

We've personally had excellent experiences with our realtor, but equally, there are those who perhaps don't provide the level of service that people expect. Same is true in many jobs. If you aren't happy then shop around, do your homework before you ask someone to act as your realtor. Don't just dismiss a profession because of a bad experience that you've had. :rolleyes:

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

NB: the 5% fee is usually on the first $100,000, and then 1% on the rest, not 5% of the total.

So a $300,000 house would pay $5,000 on the first $100,000 and $2,000 on the rest, not $15,000 as people seem to be presuming. And the more expensive the house the lower the percentage becomes typically.

Realtors don't sell every house, but they still have to put in the work and the hours.
Not everyone who calls a realtor buys a house, but they still.....

Probably 80% of realtor fail.

The realtors who succeed have a system that works, and that system costs money.

Finally: If selling houses was so easy most people would sell their own house. Why don't they?

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Advertising. If realtor.ca allowed private individuals to list a lot more would do it.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Scottish law is different to English law - no gazumping, upping the money, etc. Once the offer is accepted (usually subject to survey), it's legally binding.

Closing dates and sealed bids are typical which is great for the seller, not so good for the buyer.

I loved watching Location, Location, Location but I was losing the will to live when watching Kirsty present the TV programme The Property Chain - what a nightmare, sooooo stressful for buyers and sellers :-( English property law needs a good shake-up!

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Realtor.ca is paid for and owned by realtors.

I am not quite sure if the Toyota car dealership would accept an invitation from the man down the road to put his Ford car on the forecourt to be sold privately. Why do people think realtors should do the same.

Private individuals can list their houses on private websites like 'we list'.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

So basically you are getting your 4% commission for listing the property on mls. I still think that if there was an auto-trader equivalent for real estate a lot more people would use it - I'd certainly look on it.

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

There's welist.com - as helen said.

However, I've seen lots of houses start out with welist.com and end up with a realtor.

I'm not a realtor, nor am I married to one, so I have no financial advantage in my position:

If it was so easy why doesn't everyone sell thier own house?

Re: realtors......would a British estate agent system do well here
 

Because most people (and especially Canadians) are very conservative - it takes a while for systematic changes like that to happen. They will do tho - eventually.

Edit to add: Just to be clear - I don't object to realtors; I just see most of what they do as unnecessary especially if you are purchasing.