Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 10121327)

That all sounds a bit vague to me, you need to better define your reasons for doing it.

"Access to the outdoors" is something I hear a lot and one of the reasons I moved, well, more accurately I was sick of people living so close together, but the reality is that if you are an outdoors person the weather here has to be a major consideration.

Getting your career going in Canada can be pretty difficult, the govt is welcoming of immigrants and the businesses usually are too, it's the bit in the middle that is the real problem. Professional associations, qualifications, training you must have that you can't get, unions, etc.

All of which is designed to create a closed shop.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was more honesty on that point but the main reason put forward are fluffy statements like "maintain standards" and "best practice" and stuff like that, which I would have sympathy with if you're coming from an LDC, but coming from most parts of Europe, Australia, etc. it's stupid. Because the reality is that Canada is not the gold standard.

You sit there reading through their requirements or in the training thinking: "what a load of crap".

I suppose the more PC way of looking at it is a lack of "competitive dynamism". Or some other buzz phrase.

All I can say is, look at the time spent on provincial free trade agreements because of all the bureaucracy. Says it all really: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-wine-law.html

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 10121327)

Getting your career going in Canada can be pretty difficult, the govt is welcoming of immigrants and the businesses usually are too, it's the bit in the middle that is the real problem. Professional associations, qualifications, training you must have that you can't get, unions, etc.

All of which is designed to create a closed shop.

I wouldn't mind so much if there was more honesty on that point but the main reason put forward are fluffy statements like "maintain standards" and "best practice" and stuff like that, which I would have sympathy with if you're coming from an LDC, but coming from most parts of Europe, Australia, etc. it's stupid. Because the reality is that Canada is not the gold standard.

You sit there reading through their requirements or in the training thinking: "what a load of crap".

I suppose the more PC way of looking at it is a lack of "competitive dynamism". Or some other buzz phrase.

Originally Posted by Steve_ (Post 10121327)

thinking: "what a load of crap".

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 10120923)

Probably as many people live in them as they do chav infested hell holes ;)

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 10120982)

You'll be in good company. Loads of Scotch have moved to Canada. I think they find the long cold miserable winters and lack of cultural excitement familiar.

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 10121026)

15% drop forecasted for Vancouver so at least it'll bring prices a little closer to its natural levels :thumbup:

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10121790)

id say more than that. Inventory is on the rise and slowest spring sales in 10 years. Prices on teh west side are already down 12 percent. I'd say more like 25 - 30 percent. 3 years and owners will be under water.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10121777)

the vast majority of the UK's population live in the larger urban areas, I'd say as much as 70 percent. Hardly hob knobbing with the vicar, sailing regattas and cucumber sandwiches is it?

Something like 60 percent of greater manchester lives below the poverty line. I'd expect that's typical of a lot of the UK, north of the watford gap.

Not to say that Canada is all log cabins and ice skating, but the UK has it's grim side too. Very, very grim in some areas i'd say.

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 10121955)

Funnily, according to the following sites, 80.7% of the population of england living in urban areas and 19.3% in rural. Canada has 81% versus 19%.

Interestingly, that shows more people in Canada live in urban areas, as defined.

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=34

http://www.defra.gov.uk/statistics/f...oard-May11.pdf

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 10122260)

The whole "being closer to to the outdoors" thing makes me smile now. It was one of my reasons for moving too.

Now I am here I realise how much easier it was to be close to the outdoors in England simply because nothing bit me like it does here.

Therefore it MUST be a culture thing. Canada throws its love of the outdoor life in your face - you only have to watch a Canadian Tire commercial to see that.

The English countryside is not marketed as a bug free wonderful escape from the daily drudges of life. If it were marketed better (like it is here) maybe we would all have a different view of it.

Its one of the things I miss. I love the outdoors here (bugs and all) but I love it there too. Its the people and their attitudes that I mainly moved from.

And now I feel frustration at some of the attitudes here - old boys club and all that.

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 10122260)

Canada throws its love of the outdoor life in your face - you only have to watch a Canadian Tire commercial to see that.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122587)

ADVERTS - pristine lakes, snow-capped mountains, log cabins, handsome rosy-cheeked families, laughter, Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire barbecues etc. etc. etc.

REALITY - living in a dull North America city, driving in an oversized vehicle from the Tim Horton's drive-thru to the Canadian Tire 30-acre parking lot.

Originally Posted by Auld Yin (Post 10122646)

One could write exactly the same description of the UK by inserting the names of UK stores.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122587)

ADVERTS - pristine lakes, snow-capped mountains, log cabins, handsome rosy-cheeked families, laughter, Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire barbecues etc. etc. etc.

REALITY - living in a dull North America city, driving in an oversized vehicle from the Tim Horton's drive-thru to the Canadian Tire 30-acre parking lot.

Originally Posted by ultrarunner (Post 10122434)

That is why rose-tinted glasses should be taken off when people come here on Recces. It easy to get swept away with that whole vacation outlook on a new country

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122660)

I disagree. People in the UK don't seem to define their lifestyles by a couple of stores as much as Canadians seem to do.

Originally Posted by MillieF (Post 10122676)

I was remarkably lucky on my recce trip to NB, I enjoyed a couple of days a magical autumn colours and then what the weather man enthusiastically called a 'good nor'easter' - the rose tints froze and dropped off....I have been profoundly rural for the last ten years and I don't want rural anymore, but I don't want vast metrololis (which can be fun) either. It's finding what's right for you that's important.

So many people want change, but they don't need another country to get it, half of them would probably be just as happy with a change of job or a loft conversion.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10122698)

I doubt most people move for a 'change' ...most likely for a better life (rightly or wrongly), career opportunties, or to be with a loved one (as was the case with me).

Life is a crap shoot....sometimes it works out, sometimes it don't....my life in the UK was terrible and i spent most of my adult working life there during the 80's recession, struggling to find work, let alone decent paying work....it was grim and has left me with a bad taste in my mouth...i see my family there still struggling.

Canada on the other hand has been great to me. Was always able to find decent paying work and career advancement in a job that pays a lot more than the same position in the UK, in a city that has given me a much better way of life than anywhere in the UK ever did....but life turns on a dime. Had the UK been more kind, i likely would not have felt the need to flee.

I guess it's down to luck.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10122674)

Adverts: english country side, thatched cottages, castles, the royal family, the pub...., fine cusine, Chaucer and Emily Bronte.

Reality: Run down industrial cities, council estates and small crappy houses, pubs closing left and right, hanging out whetherspoons, crap service, fish and chips and kebabs, violence, congestion, and driving to a massive asda with a 30 acre parking lot that fulfills all of one's consumer desires....

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10122674)

Reality: Run down industrial cities, council estates and small crappy houses, pubs closing left and right, hanging out whetherspoons, crap service, fish and chips and kebabs, violence, congestion, and driving to a massive asda with a 30 acre parking lot that fulfills all of one's consumer desires....

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122713)

So, FOR YOU, life was shit in the UK and it's better in Canada.

That does not mean that Canada is better than the UK.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 10122722)

Your reality maybe. But for some of us, the first bit is a more apt description. And yes, I know I'm lucky, but don't generalise and tar all of the UK with the same brush - none of what you've described in the 'reality' bit here, apart from an Asda 15 mins away!

:)

Originally Posted by Animal (Post 10122763)

Quite a big generalisation really :confused:

I moved from a village quite a distance north of the watford gap (Shropshire) you mention that has a small cricket club, primary school and a church. There is no pub (never has been) & no take away. There is an Asda 15 drive away and other restaurants that have fantastic service and are very welcoming. The closest big town has a Wetherspoons that I have been in and enjoyed and again had great service and the staff have always been friendly.

Birmningham is 30 minutes drive away and I can get there if required in 30-40 minutes with no congestion.

The street I lived in (my wife is still currently there) had a street party for the Jubilee and everyone had a great time. We quite often leave our back door unlocked when we go out and have never known any trouble in any form on that side.

Does that fit in with your thoughts and beliefs ?

Granted - it may not be like that everywhere in the UK - as it isn't in Canada.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10122784)

No you are of course right. That was my point. Similarly your experience of teh UK vs Canada does not mean that the UK is better than Canada.

You are falling on generalizations based on your limited experiences of either place. We judge what is around us based on our experiences.

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 10120854)

I love threads like these:lol: Slag off Canada, slag off the UK etc etc.
Oh look this site promotes a forum for ex pats who basically no longer live in the UK or are thinking of moving here and a few having lived all over the world moving back to the UK or even other countries.
If there was a gold medal for moaning at the Olympics then the Brits would win hands down.:lol:
Only you can decide which is better regardless of what others say and sometimes shit happens which can leave you with negatives of any country.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122587)

ADVERTS - pristine lakes, snow-capped mountains, log cabins, handsome rosy-cheeked families, laughter, Tim Hortons, Canadian Tire barbecues etc. etc. etc.

REALITY - living in a dull North America city, driving in an oversized vehicle from the Tim Horton's drive-thru to the Canadian Tire 30-acre parking lot.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 10122722)

Your reality maybe. But for some of us, the first bit is a more apt description. And yes, I know I'm lucky, but don't generalise and tar all of the UK with the same brush - none of what you've described in the 'reality' bit here, apart from an Asda 15 mins away!

:)

Originally Posted by jericho (Post 10119418)

That's certainly an interesting perspective....
:confused:
Although I never really understood this view that the press are responsible for the whole "England has gone to the dogs" mentality. You do realise they dont simply make those stories up, dont you?

Here's a story, dated today, taken from the BBC website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-18446611

By not reporting it, what would the advantage be?
Is it not newsworthy that a 14yr old is up for murder?? Or are you just of the opinion that ignorance is bliss?

Here's another one, also from today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-18443690

I'm not quite what you feel it would achieve by the press ignoring incidents like these....

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122819)

I don't think I have ever said that "the UK is better than Canada."

That's why this is a stupid post. Canada is not "better than the UK", despite what many people - yourself included - tend to suggest in your knee-jerk reactions to any post criticising Canada. Conversely, the UK is not "better than Canada".

It depends what you want. In my opinion, if you want a rather sterile life where not much ever happens, then Canada is probably better. If you want a life with great opportunities for the kids, an outdoor lifestyle, and access to mountains and wilderness, then the UK is probably better.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10122819)

I don't think I have ever said that "the UK is better than Canada."

That's why this is a stupid post. Canada is not "better than the UK", despite what many people - yourself included - tend to suggest in your knee-jerk reactions to any post criticising Canada. Conversely, the UK is not "better than Canada".

It depends what you want. In my opinion, if you want a rather sterile life where not much ever happens, then Canada is probably better. If you want a life with great opportunities for the kids, an outdoor lifestyle, and access to mountains and wilderness, then the UK is probably better.

Originally Posted by feelbritish (Post 10122871)

Nor where I lived in the UK either so I guess it depends with what hand you have been dealt!

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10122978)

great opportunites for the kids and access to mountains and wildlerness the UK is better? You either are drunk or did a typo....

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10123003)

I bet that the majority of the Canadian population live nowhere near mountains, and have precious little access to wilderness. Not so in the UK.

Great opportunities for kids in the UK? You bet. Some of the best universities and employers in the world, unfettered access to live/study in all of Europe...

Still, if you INSIST on painting EVERYTHING in the UK negatively just because you had it shit, then that's your loss. If you refuse to accept that there are GREAT opportunities in the UK for those that have the gumption to go for them, then perhaps you did right by 'dropping down a division' to get an easier life.

And don't ever send me abusive PMs again.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10123021)

or.....?

guess you are saying that life is better in the UK then?

Dropped down a division....your having a laugh? Have you spent a lot of time in the North West?

I dont insist on painting everything in a negative light. if you were objective you would see that. i never said that...my point was life is shaped by experiences, good and bad. You seem to be the knee jerker.....and too thick to grasp the point.


now go and have lie down for FFS...

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10121787)

why are you banging on about this culture crap....funny that i have never once in 20 plus years, ever felt deprived leaving the UK's culture behind.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10123030)

I'm saying that "opportunities for the kids" is a lame excuse to move countries. If you don't think your kids have opportunities to do well in the UK, but do in Canada, then you're kidding yourself.

What's this? Oh, another PM. How mature.

Originally Posted by Boy d (Post 10123067)

i orginally choose to sling dirt in private. Can't say the same for you.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty (Post 10123117)

The difference is I'm not slinging any dirt. This is a Discussion Forum... if you've got something to say, say it. No need for juvenile PMs.

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 10123042)

I think culture is probably the most important aspect of the human condition.