tioram

As a tax paying atheist I have no choice but to expose my daughters to religious belief's that I consider to be harmful and detrimental to their personal and spiritual development. My daughters go to a "non-denominational" school but because the national curriculum defines spirituality as the teaching of religious ritual and dogma, all the children in their school are forced (and I use that word intentionally although perhaps "coerced" might be better) to participate in prayers, hymns and various religious rituals.

My 5 year old was even telling me the story of King Herod and how he killed all the first born children. Frankly, religion is no excuse for exposing 5 year olds to the concept of infanticide but that's another matter.

I find it an indication of the long way we still have to go as a society that our education system cannot accommodate all spiritual beliefs and non-beliefs in every school. It wouldn't even take much to achieve it. So long as schools stopped teaching religion as fact and instead portrayed it more appropriately as a set of beliefs and corresponding rituals and dogma, then perhaps children would be more free to make up their own minds.

I would hope that in Toronto (where I'm planning on moving) that given the multi-cultural nature of the population that people will be generally more open minded and free thinking than here in rural North Wales, but I guess that's something I'll find out. Having been born and raised a Catholic myself and having gone to Catholic schools my whole life I hope to God (irony intended) that I don't have to choose between my children's grades and spiritual development when we move.

dbd33

It's not as stark as that but "better grades" is the reason that non-Catholics, and some Catholics, send their kids to Catholic schools in Ontario. I think that among native English speakers interest in the religious aspect of those schools is a minor factor.

clynnog

I believe that the last time the rankings came out in eastern Ontario, many of the RC schools ranked near the bottom of the pile. Some of these were in small towns in eastern Ontario away from Ottawa.

In this day and age, I find it troubling that taxpayers are funding 2 school boards (some places 4 schools boards with french and english equivalents of public and RC) complete with the requisite school bus services (often 1/2 empty due to the # of schools), buildings, land holdings, etc etc.

It would be interesting to see the attendance levels at RC schools if they had to pay a fee and/or if a level of commitment to the RC faith was required by the school board of the children or parents. Up until the 1980's sometime in Ontario, full funding of the RC board ended about Grade 9 or 10 and then many of the partially committed would transfer to the public school board.

dbd33

Agreed. It's bonkers and suggests that there's a case for state funded Muslim school buses, state funded Jewish school buses and state funded Mennonite school horses and carts.

clynnog

How about a total separation of church and state and have one decent, one size fits all, school system. Or am I totally delusional.

dbd33

I don't think the state should fund any religious organizations. However, one school system or one state funded school system?

I'm not enthused about abolishing private centres of academic excellence or even private centres of snobbery but am uncomfortable with the existence of the "Brampton Jihadi School" even though it doesn't use tax dollars.

mardyarse

Unbelieveable - a thread about "what kind of person shops at Wal Mart" gets taken off the forum but "Catholic bashing" seems to bring all the bigots out. Do you realise what you sound like? Have you any idea just how thoughtless your throw away remarks are? Those of you criticising the Catholic faith, the Church and everything to do with it are the worse when you say you want to find out how to bend/break the rules to your own gain. You want to send your children to Catholic schools because you believe its the best education you can get but yet you'll sit there next to practising Catholic parents at school plays, Masses and parent's evening and lie through your teeth all night.

Shame on you and I pity the environment your children are being brought up in. What exactly are the morals you are teaching them. I hope it all comes back to you one day. It would serve you right if your child chose a theology degree that you'll end up funding or would you not pay for that because your twisted morals wouldn't allow? People have the right to have freedom of speech and that means my opinion counts as well. We should agree to disagree on this point and that be it. I wouldn't come into your public schools and start trying to change the curriculum to suit my catholic beliefs thats why I stay away but same in exchange. Its suits a great many people so leave it alone. Don't like it, don't send your children to Catholic schools. But to be a hypocrite in the highest degree you're neither a maverick or a coward. You don't disagree enough to change things you'd just rather get what you want and moan and disagree behind closed doors. The very worst sort of person. At least have enough scruples about yourself to stand by your convictions instead of hiding. Go away and think long and hard about exactly what sort of parent you are. My name is Mardy Arse because parents like you get right up my nose you're neither one or the other. At least if you're an athesiest you stand by your conviction and your entitlement to your strong opinion which I respect. But a hypocrite is a worse sort of character, come on stand up and be counted one way or the other. Yep, I'm pretty mardy about this subject so either stop your bashing or take it elsewhere.

Novocastrian

Not in my opinion. there is no rational case for funding schools for one particular religious sect (catholic christians). As I said earlier its a hangover from the 1860's in Ontario and occurs nowhere else in Canada. Total madness.

hwp

Souvenir

Multiple username alert.

DaveLovesDee

Eh? Where was the Catholic bashing? The original post was about committing fraud by forgery, something the criminal code here calls 'Uttering a forged document', though I always though to utter was to speak.

I also disagree with the funding any form of religious schooling from the public purse, and support the separation of church and state. I believe that no religion should be taught in school, but that if someone wants to learn religion then they should attend church.

dbd33

No one has bashed Catholics. The argument is about whether or not it is appropriate that we, the tax payers, fund the propagation of your superstitions ahead of anyone else's.

dbd33

What, btw, does "mardy" mean?

triumphguy

Before you opine get your facts straight:

There are historical, legal, social and rational cases for the finding of Cathollic Schools in Canada. For those who are non Catholic don't get your knickers in a twist since the moeny for them doesn't come out of your pockets, and since your kids won't be going there there is no reason to get upset.

In Calgary you choose which school district to support with your tax dollars on your property tax form. Typically most people don't tick off the Catholic box and so the public board gets the money b default.

Catholic schools typically score higher than other schools, not because they get more money, but because they have a strong, commonly held ethos.

The MANITOBA Act, which brought Manitoba into Canada in 1870 guaranteed the public funding of Catholic schools.

Since you are not likely to be able to change the consititution of Canada, if you don't want your children to be burdened with a catholic education send them to a public (state) school.

For those who want their kids to get a better education by sending them to a Catholic school, even tHough of no particular belief themselves, I would advise that kids learn more from their parents than they do from school. You can tell how most kids will do in school by the amount their parents read, and BY how often they read to their kids.

Should you choose to lie or forge docs to get your children into a catholic school, you can be heartened by sociological studies which show that childrens' religious beliefs will most often mirror their mother's, and their religous and moral behaviour will most often mirror their father's.

Furthermore: most school districts leave the sacramental development of the children to the diocese, parishes and families themselves. If you want your child to receive first communion, for example, the classes will be held at the parish church in your own time, not during school time. The parents will also have to attend some or all of the classes with the child. The dioceses and schools believe that primary religious education belongs in the home.

BTW, in Calgary: If the principal finds out that you have forged docs or lied to get your kid into a Catholic school 99% of the time you will be asked to take your child to another school ASAP.

DaveLovesDee

In Ontario, it comes out of Provincial taxes. There is no opting out of paying for it.