Re: Racist Employers
 

Of course racism exists in Canada. It exists everywhere. It is part of the human condition.

The notion that the UK is somehow more "advanced" in dealing with racism is laughable.

Re: Racist Employers
 

The two countries are just very different.

It's not a matter of being behind or ahead in reality. the UK is traditionally not a country built on immigration, Canada is, canada is much younger, they are very different and i wish people would open their eyes and realise just because they're used to things being a certain way doesn't mean it's more enlightened or better.

Re: Racist Employers
 

+1

UKIP, anyone?

Re: Racist Employers
 

that's interesting, because in my industry in Vancouver having a lot of admin experience is considered an asset. And they're willing to pay for that experience too.

Re: Racist Employers
 

I had a very similar conversation Siouxie, with an advisor at the Post Secondary Employment Service (Government) in Fredericton when I first arrived here. She basically told me that it would take and act of God to find me a job. She told me that employers like to employ people like themselves, and that I wouldn't fit in and that international experience is of no use here. No, she didn't put it in writing, unfortunately.

She made me feel completely useless and very sad. I'm not suggesting that she should have painted a rosy picture, but she really was quite rude and unpleasant.

Re: Racist Employers
 

Dismissing the notion that another country is better at integration, common purpose and value building is the main problem in Canada...eg above quote. The UK has experience that Canada and other countries could benefit from. It has unique insights/knowledge gained from first hand experience over the centuries and real experience in the realities of war and hardships on its own soil that reveal the human side of life. For a small island, the UK has much to be admired in having taken all problems relating to differences in culture and race of the world yet retained a common understanding and purpose without compromising on the democratic process and the rule of law.

Re: Racist Employers
 

..and it seems she had no idea what she was talking about. In my earlier career, it was international experience that got me the job. Employers want reliability, commitment and enthusiasm. 'Like themselves' is a ridiculous thing to say in my opinion and has never occurred to us as employers.

Re: Racist Employers
 

QED.

Re: Racist Employers
 

What races have been mentioned by UKIP and in what way?

Re: Racist Employers
 

The UKIP is a political party that believes that the country should be governed by and from within the UK.

The EDL would illustrate your point better. :nod:

Re: Racist Employers
 

Happens a lot in companies these days, but its generally worded as finding employees who match our corporate culture and they even have tests designed to weed people who don't match the corporate culture out from the hiring process.

Its more common then people think.

My industry likes experience, but they won't generally pay for experience, so if someone without experience will work for the low wages offered and the experienced person won't, they almost always go for who will work the cheapest, hotels just don't want to pay for experience unless in management, more power when in management.


I wish hotels would pay for experience, generally they won't and its the starting wage regardless if your 10 years experienced, or 19 and have never worked before, they hire based on who asks for the lowest wage generally. Unless union then the wages are better but based on length of service with that company, so experience isn't worth extra money but may get you hired.

Seems companies more often want experience but don't want to pay more for it, glad to see your company values the experience people bring to them.




I haven't come across racist employers, but there are lots of business owners who don't want to invest money into their business and then complain it doesn't make money, its like duh if your not investing into it, and its not on par with competition, how do you expect to make money?

Re: Racist Employers
 

You are mistaking 'Values' or corporate culture for employers seeking clones of themselves. All business, for success, should not only want, but need employees who share their values. Those that don't share values can often be working against the business and its goals, often being disruptive with other employees.

We don't want clones of ourselves, but we do look for employees who share our values and goals.

Re: Racist Employers
 

Large multi-nationals don't have anyone to clone exactly, but they certainly do want their employees to look the same, talk the same, act the same and so on.

Same thing to me as wanting clones.

Companies have no values, they may say they do, but their actions show otherwise, and companies and employees almost never have the same goals.

Re: Racist Employers
 

That being paying the owners/shareholders returns on the money they put out to start and operate the business and cover any losses, against those they pay money to in exchange for services to the business to operate it!

If one does not like the business or its goals, one always has a choice to take ones labour elsewhere or perhaps start their own business and reep the rewards of their labour themselves.

If a business doe snot profit, what is the point of a business?

Many of these so called greedy businesses have unions and pension funds as investors, who are reaping the rewards of their activities.

The companies I know of have high values and do a lot of good community work and encourage their employees to do so. I am sure there are some less scrupulous ones, as there are folks in every walk of life. Dishonesty, greed, lack of values and ethics is not the exclusive domain of corporate culture or lack of.

Re: Racist Employers
 

thank you. I used UKIP because my brother and girlfriend (both in UK) said the UKIP was very anti-immigrant, but maybe that's just in their area.

Re: Racist Employers
 

This.

Your biggest problem is you don't have an address in Canada and people are reluctant to embark on a lengthy hiring process with someone who may not even qualify.

Secondly I remember after 9/11 in the UK a chap I work with changing his name to Andre instead of Mohammed so people would do business with him.

Lastly (and at this stage unrelated to the initial thread query) I work at a recruitment firm in Downtown Toronto and sadly immigrants are dismissed all the time due to "cultural fit", "comms" and "over qualification". I see stronger immigrant resumes overlooked frequently for locals.

It's hard to compare Toronto on other places. London for all intensive purposes has far more companies and work opportunities and the war for talent is more fierce. If anything I think market forces has made it less bigoted in terms of hiring.

If professional advancement is important to your life you only really want to pick Canada if you are addressing a proven skill shortage.

London, New York, Paris and more significant G7/ G8 (or what ever they call themselves) or even fast growth Developing world countries will trump it every time other wise.

Re: Racist Employers
 

UKIP is anti-immigrant. The party was founded as an anti immigrant party. It is the whole reason for its existence. Sure, they also want to stop any foreigners having a say in running the UK and have developed a broader platform. It doesn't mean that the people who vote for them don't know exactly what they are voting for. Anyone who suggests that UKIP have a political legitimacy beyond an anti-immigrant popularism is being disingenuous.

Re: Racist Employers
 

And in particular, immigrants from Europe over whom the UK has no control. I haven't heard about them campaigning against black or brown Poles but not against white Poles.

As, it would appear, you don't vote for them, how do you know what beliefs their supporters have? If they are simply racists, opinion polls would suggest that there are huge numbers of racists in the UK.

Re: Racist Employers
 

Yes, their main platform is to regain border and legislation control from Europe.

I don't think they are inherently racist, but they do seem to attract the anti-foreigner brigade and assorted other loons.

Somebody on the radio today made the point that British public is not so much concerned about levels of immigration as levels of population.

Re: Racist Employers
 

A bit like the SNP then? :p

That was my understanding too. It's unfortunate that the first directly affects the second.

Re: Racist Employers
 

wow, they sound very enlightened. light years ahead of canada ;)

Re: Racist Employers
 

Yes very enlightened, enlightened enough NOT to deliberately take an aboriginal indian guy many miles out of edmonton in winter and kick him out of the police cruiser and leave him to die, and then allow those policemen to carry on with their careers. The list of abuse against aboriginals is endless and no english cops don't get away with crap like that.

Re: Racist Employers
 

The natives of North America got a raw deal and have never been treated well. They seem to be treated far worse in Canada for some reason, the US tribes have their issues, but overall the racism towards natives seems a lot higher in Canada.

Re: Racist Employers
 

i really think it depends where you are. canada is a very big place.

Re: Racist Employers
 

I have lived in MB and now in AB and both places treat aboriginals like crap.
Thousands of Aboriginal women Canada wide have gone missing, their disappearances are not investigated and thats a well known fact canada wide.
What other modern country could have so many women disappear and nothing is or was done about it ???????


http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/ca...port-1.2989320

Re: Racist Employers
 

The deliberate campaign of genocide against American Indians by the US Army in the 1800's (they freely admitted that getting rid of the buffalo was the main tool for getting rid of the Indians), sets their history apart from ours. When there were no more buffalo to hunt the Plains Indians here had no choice but to take treaty as well and the transition didn't go well for a variety of reasons. I'm only familiar with Treaty 4 and Treaty 6 because that's my part of Canada but I know that land claims are still being settled all over the country and some are disputed.
Aside from the Beothuks of Newfoundland which became extinct in 1829 the methods of subjugation employed here generally weren't as violent. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee chronicles massacre after massacre committed to facilitate manifest destiny (let's just call it stealing land). The residential school system of forced assimilation which robbed Indian people here of their culture existed in the US as well. Not only people my age but some I know who are far younger were forced to go through it. If I had my way all immigrants would have to pass a test about First Nations history and treaty rights.
Is that a rant? I hope not.
I knew one of the policemen involved in the Stonechild Inquiry case and he never was anything but self-important trash - even had the gall to ask for his job back when he should of been behind bars.
ps: I live squarely in the middle of North Central Regina and all the people who run it down because mostly natives live here can bite me. There are a lot of wonderful native people here.

Re: Racist Employers
 

lots of canadians want an inquiry into this, it's the Conservatives that won't budge, but y'know what, i don't want to get into a silly google link debate about whose country is better for diversity. there is plenty the UK has done, and continues to do, that is not that great either. As I said before, 2 very different countries with very different histories. I don't consider the UK more enlightened at all - nor do I consider Caanda more enlightened.

Re: Racist Employers
 

truthfully colonization has been very bad for the indigenous peoples - whether in australia, canada, nz or the us. But what I find strange is how british immigrants to those places now act as if their own country had nothing to do with that colonization and thus the treatment of the indigenous people, as if they're some enlightened race now smelling of roses. The British Empire included Australia, Canada and NZ and once the US too. Britain facilitated ethnic British immigrants coming over and pushing indigenous people from their lands. British and european money financed settlement, companies, exploited natural resources. and british and european religious groups set up the schools that abused indigenous children. And most of the treaties aren't worth the paper they are written on - the crown has rarely if ever acted with honesty or integrity when it comes to indigenous people, something the descendants of settlers are trying to deal with now with mixed success. And then there's the trans-atlantic slave trade. is Britain planning to pay reparations? oh didn't think so.

So spare us the bleating. Your people are part of this too.

Re: Racist Employers
 

don't forget the part that British colonization played in Africa .......

......... a large part of the problem of those nations had in becoming self-governing was the treatment they had received from the colonizers and the lack of training locals received.

It was the same attitude as displayed in Canada, OZ, etc ................ take everything and send immigrants to take over the land.


NZ is in a slightly better position ............. the Maoris did sign some good treaties which have held up, and seem to have escaped many of the problems of the First Nations here and elsewhere.

Re: Racist Employers
 

:goodpost:

Not only immigrants but all Canadians should be educated on FN history in a coherent way. Not sure what they youngsters are being taught now, obviously something, but there does not seem to be a general Canadian narrative. Perhaps to be expected given the tribal nature of FN and geography.

Re: Racist Employers
 

Is this directed at me? If so who do you mean by my people, descendants of European immigrants, Canadians in general or workers in non-profit cultural organisations? And what do you mean by bleating? If you want to understand why self determination for First Nations in Canada is important you have to know the reasons why the Indian Act hasn't worked and you have to know which parts of the treaties were beneficial and which parts weren't. The growing demographic of First Nations people in the workforce may not be apparent to you but I've seen it happen from the very first visible native employees in stores and banks in the 1960's to their present inclusion in all segments of Canadian society. If we ignore the underlying causes behind the problems natives have today and just say "Too bad the white man has screwed them over" and resign ourselves to the high incarceration rates and substance abuse issues then things won't change. We have to facilitate change, provide opportunities and encourage positive growth while recognising the importance of re-establishing native culture and language, (the very things lost through the residential school system). The First Nations people I know who are happiest and most successful are those who have one foot in both worlds and can participate in the present while knowing and appreciating their traditional culture. I had a Cree friend 40 years ago who didn't know who he really was even though he was descended from some very important historical figures but he didn't become complete until he returned to his roots and now he has inspired several generations of his people to appreciate a culture that could have been lost if not for the vision and perseverance of traditionalists. It's no good to lay blame and make excuses instead of supporting positive change, and the first step is learning the history, the culture, and learning to appreciate it. If the Civil Rights Movement had done nothing but blame Europeans for slavery then desegregation never would of happened.

Re: Racist Employers
 

Perhaps it depends on which province you are in? Or even which part of which province!

I know my daughter was well-educated in FN history, and many things now happen in BC that didn't used to happen .............

for example

the University of British Columbia is on First Nations land. Every ceremony and official meeting there begins with an acknowledgement from the President of the university that this is so. Every celebration then involves 1 or more elders from the band involved, blessing the land and the coming celebrations and often drumming.

No student should be graduating from that university without knowledge at least of the importance of the local bands

Many local politicians acknowledge the rights of the First Nations. The mayor has done that many times.

Re: Racist Employers
 

You are slightly off tangent. The OP was pointing to the continued abuse of first nation people.

That really has nothing to do with the UK now and if memory serves hasn't since Canada became an independent country in 1867.

Re: Racist Employers
 

I'm all for understanding the history and helping the FN to integrate; less convinced about their ancient rights and political pandering.

Re: Racist Employers
 

The racist attitudes that have been ingrained in people come from their parents; left to their own devices children are colour blind. My dad had some negative attitudes about Indians and if it wasn't for my mother making sure her children knew they weren't true I might have carried that on into my life. If that had happened I would be losing out on a lot.

Re: Racist Employers
 

But they are a political entity, and they have rights. Ensuring the well-being of their people is a traditional responsibility of native leaders, not pandering. It always has been.

Re: Racist Employers
 

I have re-read the post you quoted carefully several times and I can't see anywhere an accusation that UKIP distinguishes between the race or skin colour of immigrants.

Re: Racist Employers
 

But it is a very typical attitude that non-white people will only be happy if they are allowed to integrate into white society.

Re: Racist Employers
 

I'm with caretaker 105%

Re: Racist Employers
 

You should get your history right.

Canada was not an independent nation from 1867 ........... the Constitution was held in London and all changes to it had to be approved by the British Parliament. That was the case from 1867 until April 1982. The British Parliament had to pass the Canada Act, which the Queen then signed on parliament Hill in Ottawa on April 17 1982. One of the good acts of Pierre Trudeau!

Until that moment, Canada basically was ruled from London as the British Parliament had the final say on any changes to the Constitution.

A symbol of that was that British citizens could vote in all Federal and Provincial elections until the mid-70s, merely by virtue of being born in Britain. No commitment to Canada was needed.


The worst abuses of First Nation as peoples happened between about the 1880s to as late as the 1970s when do-gooders, in the guise of missionaries, grabbed children from the reserves, forced them into residential schools where they were forbidden to speak their own languages, and to become "little white people" good only to be domestic servants ............... all the while being subject to the most cruel abuses, physical, mental and sexual.

All religions were involved ......... there were residential schools run by Catholics, Anglicans and Lutherans, and it seems that there were abuses in all the schools.


So, yes, it still had lots to do with the UK for many many years after 1867.


I would ask ............ have you ever been into one of the residential schools?

I have. It was long years after it had ceased to become a school, but the walls seemed to be imbued with misery. Plus the cemetery outside, where so many graves were unmarked.

We even saw a couple of the schools while they were still being operated ............. this was in central BC, in the days when we were still rather innocent fairly new immigrants and nothing as known about how bad the schools were.

We thought they were prisons, surrounded as they were by high fences topped by barbed wire. It was only later that we discovered what they really were.

It was the abuses in the schools that led to the loss of the native culture, and the loss of knowledge of what family meant, plus drinking and self-perpetuating mis-treatment of others.