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Racist Employers

Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:30 am
  #151  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by ExKiwilass View Post
So spare us the bleating. Your people are part of this too.
Is this directed at me? If so who do you mean by my people, descendants of European immigrants, Canadians in general or workers in non-profit cultural organisations? And what do you mean by bleating? If you want to understand why self determination for First Nations in Canada is important you have to know the reasons why the Indian Act hasn't worked and you have to know which parts of the treaties were beneficial and which parts weren't. The growing demographic of First Nations people in the workforce may not be apparent to you but I've seen it happen from the very first visible native employees in stores and banks in the 1960's to their present inclusion in all segments of Canadian society. If we ignore the underlying causes behind the problems natives have today and just say "Too bad the white man has screwed them over" and resign ourselves to the high incarceration rates and substance abuse issues then things won't change. We have to facilitate change, provide opportunities and encourage positive growth while recognising the importance of re-establishing native culture and language, (the very things lost through the residential school system). The First Nations people I know who are happiest and most successful are those who have one foot in both worlds and can participate in the present while knowing and appreciating their traditional culture. I had a Cree friend 40 years ago who didn't know who he really was even though he was descended from some very important historical figures but he didn't become complete until he returned to his roots and now he has inspired several generations of his people to appreciate a culture that could have been lost if not for the vision and perseverance of traditionalists. It's no good to lay blame and make excuses instead of supporting positive change, and the first step is learning the history, the culture, and learning to appreciate it. If the Civil Rights Movement had done nothing but blame Europeans for slavery then desegregation never would of happened.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:35 am
  #152  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by Shard View Post


Not only immigrants but all Canadians should be educated on FN history in a coherent way. Not sure what they youngsters are being taught now, obviously something, but there does not seem to be a general Canadian narrative. Perhaps to be expected given the tribal nature of FN and geography.

Perhaps it depends on which province you are in? Or even which part of which province!

I know my daughter was well-educated in FN history, and many things now happen in BC that didn't used to happen .............

for example

the University of British Columbia is on First Nations land. Every ceremony and official meeting there begins with an acknowledgement from the President of the university that this is so. Every celebration then involves 1 or more elders from the band involved, blessing the land and the coming celebrations and often drumming.

No student should be graduating from that university without knowledge at least of the importance of the local bands

Many local politicians acknowledge the rights of the First Nations. The mayor has done that many times.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:45 am
  #153  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by ExKiwilass View Post
truthfully colonization has been very bad for the indigenous peoples - whether in australia, canada, nz or the us. But what I find strange is how british immigrants to those places now act as if their own country had nothing to do with that colonization and thus the treatment of the indigenous people, as if they're some enlightened race now smelling of roses. The British Empire included Australia, Canada and NZ and once the US too. Britain facilitated ethnic British immigrants coming over and pushing indigenous people from their lands. British and european money financed settlement, companies, exploited natural resources. and british and european religious groups set up the schools that abused indigenous children. And most of the treaties aren't worth the paper they are written on - the crown has rarely if ever acted with honesty or integrity when it comes to indigenous people, something the descendants of settlers are trying to deal with now with mixed success. And then there's the trans-atlantic slave trade. is Britain planning to pay reparations? oh didn't think so.

So spare us the bleating. Your people are part of this too.
You are slightly off tangent. The OP was pointing to the continued abuse of first nation people.

That really has nothing to do with the UK now and if memory serves hasn't since Canada became an independent country in 1867.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:46 am
  #154  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by scilly View Post
Perhaps it depends on which province you are in? Or even which part of which province!

I know my daughter was well-educated in FN history, and many things now happen in BC that didn't used to happen .............

for example

the University of British Columbia is on First Nations land. Every ceremony and official meeting there begins with an acknowledgement from the President of the university that this is so. Every celebration then involves 1 or more elders from the band involved, blessing the land and the coming celebrations and often drumming.

No student should be graduating from that university without knowledge at least of the importance of the local bands

Many local politicians acknowledge the rights of the First Nations. The mayor has done that many times.

I'm all for understanding the history and helping the FN to integrate; less convinced about their ancient rights and political pandering.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:51 am
  #155  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

The racist attitudes that have been ingrained in people come from their parents; left to their own devices children are colour blind. My dad had some negative attitudes about Indians and if it wasn't for my mother making sure her children knew they weren't true I might have carried that on into my life. If that had happened I would be losing out on a lot.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 2:04 am
  #156  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm all for understanding the history and helping the FN to integrate; less convinced about their ancient rights and political pandering.
But they are a political entity, and they have rights. Ensuring the well-being of their people is a traditional responsibility of native leaders, not pandering. It always has been.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 2:59 am
  #157  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
And in particular, immigrants from Europe over whom the UK has no control. I haven't heard about them campaigning against black or brown Poles but not against white Poles.

As, it would appear, you don't vote for them, how do you know what beliefs their supporters have? If they are simply racists, opinion polls would suggest that there are huge numbers of racists in the UK.
I have re-read the post you quoted carefully several times and I can't see anywhere an accusation that UKIP distinguishes between the race or skin colour of immigrants.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 3:01 am
  #158  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
But they are a political entity, and they have rights. Ensuring the well-being of their people is a traditional responsibility of native leaders, not pandering. It always has been.
But it is a very typical attitude that non-white people will only be happy if they are allowed to integrate into white society.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 3:48 am
  #159  
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I'm with caretaker 105%
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 4:03 am
  #160  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
You are slightly off tangent. The OP was pointing to the continued abuse of first nation people.

That really has nothing to do with the UK now and if memory serves hasn't since Canada became an independent country in 1867.

You should get your history right.

Canada was not an independent nation from 1867 ........... the Constitution was held in London and all changes to it had to be approved by the British Parliament. That was the case from 1867 until April 1982. The British Parliament had to pass the Canada Act, which the Queen then signed on parliament Hill in Ottawa on April 17 1982. One of the good acts of Pierre Trudeau!

Until that moment, Canada basically was ruled from London as the British Parliament had the final say on any changes to the Constitution.

A symbol of that was that British citizens could vote in all Federal and Provincial elections until the mid-70s, merely by virtue of being born in Britain. No commitment to Canada was needed.


The worst abuses of First Nation as peoples happened between about the 1880s to as late as the 1970s when do-gooders, in the guise of missionaries, grabbed children from the reserves, forced them into residential schools where they were forbidden to speak their own languages, and to become "little white people" good only to be domestic servants ............... all the while being subject to the most cruel abuses, physical, mental and sexual.

All religions were involved ......... there were residential schools run by Catholics, Anglicans and Lutherans, and it seems that there were abuses in all the schools.


So, yes, it still had lots to do with the UK for many many years after 1867.


I would ask ............ have you ever been into one of the residential schools?

I have. It was long years after it had ceased to become a school, but the walls seemed to be imbued with misery. Plus the cemetery outside, where so many graves were unmarked.

We even saw a couple of the schools while they were still being operated ............. this was in central BC, in the days when we were still rather innocent fairly new immigrants and nothing as known about how bad the schools were.

We thought they were prisons, surrounded as they were by high fences topped by barbed wire. It was only later that we discovered what they really were.

It was the abuses in the schools that led to the loss of the native culture, and the loss of knowledge of what family meant, plus drinking and self-perpetuating mis-treatment of others.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 4:17 am
  #161  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by scilly View Post
You should get your history right.

Canada was not an independent nation from 1867 ........... the Constitution was held in London and all changes to it had to be approved by the British Parliament. That was the case from 1867 until April 1982. The British Parliament had to pass the Canada Act, which the Queen then signed on parliament Hill in Ottawa on April 17 1982. One of the good acts of Pierre Trudeau!
I stand corrected.

However you are off tangent too.

Britain has nothing to do with the current racism and barriers of integration faced by first nation people. You'll notice that is what the posters are debating if you actually take the time to read what they are saying.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 7:52 am
  #162  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

This is my tribe. I don't identify as Native as I don't have the look and get accused of various things, so I just say I am white. I took from my mom's European side more then my dad's side. But my sister and a few cousins and uncles have a lot of native traits you can see.

I've got my citizenship card as well, I just being from California never got out to Oklahoma, my grandfather however moved back before he passed on in 1999 to be closer to his roots. His father and mother and the rest of his family are buried there as well.

Off topic I know, but just that we often times judge someone solely based on color and the features that are apparent even if the color of their skin, and hair or eyes or what have you are misleading.

Muscogee (Creek) Nation

I hadn't realized the tribe has their own court system as well.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 9:42 am
  #163  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
But they are a political entity, and they have rights. Ensuring the well-being of their people is a traditional responsibility of native leaders, not pandering. It always has been.
Actually my pandering comment was aimed at Canadian politicians. They are a political entity, but not an entirely sustainable one for the simple reason that you cannot divide peoples by race. Obviously the FN have suffered injustices over the decades, and the reserves system / funding was an attempt empower the FN to flourish as an indigenous society. However, based on the multitude of social problems they now face, it's a bit rich to claim native leaders ensure the well being of their people (although I would agree that 'traditionally' that was their role).
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 1:28 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Actually my pandering comment was aimed at Canadian politicians. They are a political entity, but not an entirely sustainable one for the simple reason that you cannot divide peoples by race. Obviously the FN have suffered injustices over the decades, and the reserves system / funding was an attempt empower the FN to flourish as an indigenous society. However, based on the multitude of social problems they now face, it's a bit rich to claim native leaders ensure the well being of their people (although I would agree that 'traditionally' that was their role).
You're wrong, very wrong but you might learn and understand someday. This is an account of what happened 140 years ago The story of Treaty 6
40 years ago I accompanied a friend who was a CBC Radio technician to Beardy's Reserve near Duck Lake, Sask so the host and producer of a native themed radio program could cover the 100th anniversary of the signing of Treaty 6. Justice Emmet Hall represented the Queen, John Munro (Minister of Health) and Iona Campagnolo (Minister of Indian Affairs) represented the Government of Canada and special guest dignitary former Prime Minister John G. Diefenbaker was there as well. I got to talk with Diefenbaker for about half an hour before his security detail arrived late and looking very embarrassed. There was a table set up under an awning covered with the treaty medals that would be given to the assembled chiefs. Several hundred yards away down a slight incline on the prairie grass was a white tipi set up for the chiefs to confer in before the ceremony was to begin. They walked up to it and filed in and the radio producer said to my friend "Do you think you could pick anything up from down there?" He put on his headphones, switched on his tape recorder and aimed the big shotgun microphone at the tipi. Until then it had been a calm morning but suddenly the wind came up a bit. About 15 or so minutes later the wind ceased, the flaps of the tipi opened, the chiefs emerged and filed up the hill to where we were assembled. I can't remember everything about what was said before they began receiving their treaty medals in turn and shaking hands but people started walking among the dignitaries handing out pieces of paper, but being careful not to hand them to the government representatives. They were copies of Rod King's (Okemow, chief of the Lucky Man band) speech. Then it was his turn to receive his medal and he turned the world upside down. This part I remember vividly even though it was nearly 40 years ago.
Chief Okemow's Speech
I can hear the words "a litany of broken promises" as if he were still standing in front of me.
When we played the tape back all you could hear between the time they entered the tipi and the moment they emerged was the wind rustling through the trees. The souvenir t-shirt I bought that day was my favourite and I wore it until you could see through it.

Last edited by caretaker; Apr 29th 2015 at 1:34 pm.
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Old Apr 29th 2015, 2:00 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: Racist Employers

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
You're wrong, very wrong but you might learn and understand someday. This is an account of what happened 140 years ago The story of Treaty 6
40 years ago I accompanied a friend who was a CBC Radio technician to Beardy's Reserve near Duck Lake, Sask so the host and producer of a native themed radio program could cover the 100th anniversary of the signing of Treaty 6. Justice Emmet Hall represented the Queen, John Munro (Minister of Health) and Iona Campagnolo (Minister of Indian Affairs) represented the Government of Canada and special guest dignitary former Prime Minister John G. Diefenbaker was there as well. I got to talk with Diefenbaker for about half an hour before his security detail arrived late and looking very embarrassed. There was a table set up under an awning covered with the treaty medals that would be given to the assembled chiefs. Several hundred yards away down a slight incline on the prairie grass was a white tipi set up for the chiefs to confer in before the ceremony was to begin. They walked up to it and filed in and the radio producer said to my friend "Do you think you could pick anything up from down there?" He put on his headphones, switched on his tape recorder and aimed the big shotgun microphone at the tipi. Until then it had been a calm morning but suddenly the wind came up a bit. About 15 or so minutes later the wind ceased, the flaps of the tipi opened, the chiefs emerged and filed up the hill to where we were assembled. I can't remember everything about what was said before they began receiving their treaty medals in turn and shaking hands but people started walking among the dignitaries handing out pieces of paper, but being careful not to hand them to the government representatives. They were copies of Rod King's (Okemow, chief of the Lucky Man band) speech. Then it was his turn to receive his medal and he turned the world upside down. This part I remember vividly even though it was nearly 40 years ago.
Chief Okemow's Speech
I can hear the words "a litany of broken promises" as if he were still standing in front of me.
When we played the tape back all you could hear between the time they entered the tipi and the moment they emerged was the wind rustling through the trees. The souvenir t-shirt I bought that day was my favourite and I wore it until you could see through it.
Thanks for that evocative posting. I will check the links a bit later as I am interested to learn about it.
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