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-   -   Racist Employers (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/racist-employers-856992/)

Nuckynoo Apr 23rd 2015 9:26 pm

Racist Employers
 
Hi

My husband has been searching for a job for over a year in the Provinces on Alberta & Saskatchewan. He has sent off his CV ( portfolio ) to countless employees and had one unsuccessful interview. We sought advice and guidance from an employment office in Alberta who admitted that there are a lot of racist issues when choosing new employees.

My husband is a Level 3 City & Guilds Plumber/ Gas fitted with over 10 years of experience. He is British Egyptian Muslim.

All his papers in order and he is ready to work.

Is anyone else in the same situation ?



Thanks

Naomi

rivingtonpike Apr 23rd 2015 9:31 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626913)
Hi

My husband has been searching for a job for over a year in the Provinces on Alberta & Saskatchewan. He has sent off his CV ( portfolio ) to countless employees and had one unsuccessful interview. We sought advice and guidance from an employment office in Alberta who admitted that there are a lot of racist issues when choosing new employees.

My husband is a Level 3 City & Guilds Plumber/ Gas fitted with over 10 years of experience. He is British Egyptian Muslim.

All his papers in order and he is ready to work.

Is anyone else in the same situation ?



Thanks

Naomi

Don't put nationality or religion on the resume. Then who would know? Canada is full of interesting international names. Why do you think his not getting interviews is racist?

Nuckynoo Apr 23rd 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
I think because his name is Mohammed .... It's a massive giveaway and to be honest with all the negative news in the media we think it my be having an effect on Canadian Employers hiring.

It just gave us a sad sinking feeling and loss of hope. We have spent so much time, energy and money getting documents together, getting credentials assessed etc.

Thx for your response

rivingtonpike Apr 23rd 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626930)
I think because his name is Mohammed .... It's a massive giveaway and to be honest with all the negative news in the media we think it my be having an effect on Canadian Employers hiring.

It just gave us a sad sinking feeling and loss of hope. We have spent so much time, energy and money getting documents together, getting credentials assessed etc.

Thx for your response

When you say you have all your papers in order, do you mean he still requires a work permit from an employer? Or do you already have permanent residency?

Nuckynoo Apr 23rd 2015 9:49 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
He is waiting for a job offer first , he has had TEFl Test, credentials assesses by both Provinces AIT , he has just applied for Express Entry.

To be honest I don't know why he doesn't just apply for PR , we have been trying our best to get a job offer first then apply for PR.

ExKiwilass Apr 23rd 2015 10:17 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
i honestly don't know if it's racism or not but could you try abbreviating his name to "Mo"? Might be worth it to see if it changes the response.

There's a few Mos around here.

Also, does it have to be AB or SK?

rivingtonpike Apr 23rd 2015 10:35 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626942)
He is waiting for a job offer first , he has had TEFl Test, credentials assesses by both Provinces AIT , he has just applied for Express Entry.

To be honest I don't know why he doesn't just apply for PR , we have been trying our best to get a job offer first then apply for PR.

Applying for and getting PR first would likely improve his chances of landing a job. Getting the paperwork to employ someone without already having PR seems to be a real pain and very expensive for an employer these days.

Former Lancastrian Apr 23rd 2015 11:17 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
Sorry I take offence at the title of this thread and Yes Im a white guy.
At the moment he is not legally entitled to work in Canada as he only has an Express Entry application submitted and has not been issued a LMIA nor been given a PNP support letter or exempt from a LMIA.
What proof do you have that these employers are racist and discriminating against him based on this. Oh yeah thats right a single employee at an employment office stated in your words that there a lot of racist issues when choosing new employers.
Somebody told me they knew a few muslims who were terrorists and probably had joined ISIS so Im guessing you will agree with this statement?
So the fact that he can't LEGALLY work in Canada at the moment just might have something to do with him not receiving job offers.

rivingtonpike Apr 23rd 2015 11:27 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
Maybe with the added time, effort and expense of getting visas and employing foreigners without PR status, Canadian employers are putting more effort into finding people to fill their jobs already eligible to work. Have you seen lots of British plumers not called Mohammed getting jobs around him? Maybe they just don't like what they see on his resume, or maybe they're just not hiring from abroad. It does seem a bit of a knee jerk reaction to automatically assume it's a racist issue

caretaker Apr 23rd 2015 11:36 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
It's always possible that you may encounter racist attitudes when seeking employment but you'll have to cross that bridge when you come to it. As FL says get your papers in order first then apply everywhere you'd like to live and don't give up until you get in. For what it's worth the mayor of Calgary is Muslim and he's one of the most popular mayors in the country so try to take heart from that. I look forward to welcoming you to Canada.

withabix Apr 23rd 2015 11:47 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
Getting job offers in Canada is more to do with who you know, not what you know.

But he needs to become entitled to work in Canada first. At the moment, he isn't.

Then try using an 'alternative' first name. Many Chinese do this after all.

caretaker Apr 24th 2015 12:11 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by withabix (Post 1162704)
Then try using an 'alternative' first name. Many Chinese do this after all.

I will disagree with that; it's against the law to discriminate on the basis of race or religion and nobody should have to change their name to get an interview if they have the qualifications. Besides, if a plumbing company granted an interview to 'Mike' then rejected Mohammed when they got a look at him for a fake reason it would be even worse, and hiring him then letting him go by lying and saying he wasn't good enough would be worse still. A skype interview would short-circuit any surprises. Not everyone in the trades is a bigot but some are and that's a fact of life. I worked with a Moroccan finishing carpenter who was named Mohammed and he was known for his skill and engaging personality rather than his skin or his religion.

withabix Apr 24th 2015 12:34 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
I'm not saying it's right, but a lot of people do it (use an English name, that is).

not2old Apr 24th 2015 12:37 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
OP, I think your point of 'racist employers' is way off base & the fact pointed out by other posters 'he is not legally entitled to work in Canada'.

Before I retired going back a few years, I was the 'hiring person' in a company that was 90& non-white Christians, in fact majority Muslim. Then a factory that I was plant superintendent' with a majority of Vietnamese, Chinese & Korean workers.

This is Canada & within the GTA (Toronto) there are places & spaces that even I feel out of place now after living here for 48 years.

I have experienced all kinds of folks from all walks of life applying for jobs, even some past 65 years of age, unskilled, skilled & over qualified.. One of the questions you may find on an application form is 'are you legally entitled to work in Canada' - even if one answered 'yes' & wasn't, then at hiring time the proof has to be there in one form or another such as a SIN#

Even those that sent in their resume/CV it was evident they are new arrivals in Canada - that didn't matter to the company - its, 'if there are positions available', is the person skilled & qualified & do they have [as applicable] any license or trade credential that is required for a particular job.

Take from that & the other posts what your OH needs to do to apply for a position with a Canadian employer, keeping in mind there is likely home grown trained & qualified individuals with Canadian experience who are also applying for the jobs your OH is applying for who also never get a response, an interview or email/phone call.

In reverse, imagine a Canadian landing in the UK applying for a job, would be up against local trained, qualified & experienced folks. Who would you consider first?

Being an immigrant competing against the locals is a tough go even if one has landed status, a 'Red seal' trade ticket & Canadian experience

Zoe Bell Apr 24th 2015 1:02 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
One wonders why you would even want to move to such a racist land.

Of course this board is full of people who had just as much trouble securing a job who aren't called Mohammed.
They , however, don't get to play the race card

chrisro55 Apr 24th 2015 1:23 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
Notwithstanding the very fundamental issue of non resident? & no right to work? (which for most employers will be a full stop anyway), then I would echo the comments of the other respondents.

I work at a senior level within the Engineering / Maintenance industry, and a significant number of the trades / semi skilled staff in BC, AB, SK, and ON are releativly recent migrants from asian, south asian, or middle eastern backgrounds. (far more than white europeans or other ethnic groups)

You have mentioned that he is a plumber / gas filter, and also seem to intimate he has received his red seal / provincial licensing? That said, don't under estimate just how much focus is put into direct Canadian experience, especialy in the trades, which are much much different in terms of practices & installation methodologies in Canada than most other countries. Also on the construction side of things for electricians, pipe fitters / gas fitters, then belonging to a local union hall will also have a big influence on the type of jobs available to him (especially in AB)

not2old Apr 24th 2015 1:23 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Zoe Bell (Post 11627067)
One wonders why you would even want to move to such a racist land.

Of course this board is full of people who had just as much trouble securing a job who aren't called Mohammed. They , however, don't get to play the race card

so true...

I have to be honest, that I, 'the white Christian' have played the racism card [towards me] a few times in the workplace in multi-cultural Canada, because 'racism has no boundaries'

Now, I play the 'old fool' card so that everyone can take a pot-shot at me , especially when trying to get service, waiting in a line or in a shop, on the phone.

Then again, I don't put up with any BS & still have the balls to do what it takes to get what I want & deserve what I am rightfully entitled too. Its the game of survival & that's why I came to Canada, I consider myself a good immigrant & Canadian citizen

Jsmth321 Apr 24th 2015 2:06 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
Seems to me the fact he appears not eligible to work in Canada is the reason he isn't being hired/interview. If he can't work here, can't expect to get a job here,

I am white looking, but all my co-workers are not, some are east Indian, some are Asian, and I am not sure where others are from.

I see lots of diversity everywhere I go around BC at different types of companies, can't say about Alberta though.

bats Apr 24th 2015 2:31 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
You are probably not getting any replies right now as you aren't in Canada and don't have PR. That said you could change his name on his resume to Mo, it might help. I worked with a Christian Egyptian who said he would never work with or employ a Muslim. I understand you thinking that racism is a factor as there does seem to be an increasing distrust and division but right now the problem is that you are not in Canads.

Dorothy Apr 24th 2015 4:21 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 11627031)
Sorry I take offence at the title of this thread and Yes Im a white guy.
At the moment he is not legally entitled to work in Canada as he only has an Express Entry application submitted and has not been issued a LMIA nor been given a PNP support letter or exempt from a LMIA.
What proof do you have that these employers are racist and discriminating against him based on this. Oh yeah thats right a single employee at an employment office stated in your words that there a lot of racist issues when choosing new employers.
Somebody told me they knew a few muslims who were terrorists and probably had joined ISIS so Im guessing you will agree with this statement?
So the fact that he can't LEGALLY work in Canada at the moment just might have something to do with him not receiving job offers.

+1

Originally Posted by Zoe Bell (Post 11627067)
One wonders why you would even want to move to such a racist land.

Of course this board is full of people who had just as much trouble securing a job who aren't called Mohammed.
They , however, don't get to play the race card

:goodpost:

OP, I find your assertion that your husband isn't getting jobs because of racism offensive. Perhaps if Canada, and in turn Canadians, are racist you would do better to stay where you are.

Siouxie Apr 24th 2015 6:01 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
Despite being a Permanent Resident with many years of experience I applied for literally hundreds of jobs, culminating in 3 interviews in 3 years.

After that I gave up and am now self employed.

I would agree with others and say it's due to his a) not being in Canada b) not being legally able to work in Canada and c) lots of Canadians and PR's that can do the job

I'd suggest having a read of the various wiki pages on job hunting in Canada, if you are serious about coming then either a recce and a job hunting trip or else apply for PR.

Category:Job Hunting-Canada : British Expat Wiki

:)

caretaker Apr 24th 2015 6:39 am

Re: Racist Employers
 
I agree, rent a car and check it out - talk to people, try to make some contacts before you come then get on the land, travel a bit and see if you like it.

dishwashing Apr 24th 2015 6:45 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by not2old (Post 11627078)

Now, I play the 'old fool' card so that everyone can take a pot-shot at me , especially when trying to get service, waiting in a line or in a shop, on the phone.

Then again, I don't put up with any BS & still have the balls to do what it takes to get what I want & deserve what I am rightfully entitled too. Its the game of survival & that's why I came to Canada, I consider myself a good immigrant & Canadian citizen

Yes, let's use the OP's question and thread as an excuse to elevate ourselves whilst putting another down .. no, don't be shy about it !!!! :blink:

dishwashing Apr 24th 2015 6:46 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 11627031)
At the moment he is not legally entitled to work in Canada as he only has an Express Entry application submitted and has not been issued a LMIA nor been given a PNP support letter or exempt from a LMIA.

FL - Does a PNP support letter entitle someone to work in Canada? On an open or closed work permit?

Sorry (off topic)

dishwashing Apr 24th 2015 6:51 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626913)
Hi

My husband has been searching for a job for over a year in the Provinces on Alberta & Saskatchewan. He has sent off his CV ( portfolio ) to countless employees and had one unsuccessful interview. We sought advice and guidance from an employment office in Alberta who admitted that there are a lot of racist issues when choosing new employees.

My husband is a Level 3 City & Guilds Plumber/ Gas fitted with over 10 years of experience. He is British Egyptian Muslim.

All his papers in order and he is ready to work.

Is anyone else in the same situation ?



Thanks

Naomi

I have some opinions on Canadian work culture, but at least where I hover, racism is not a specific one - i.e. I have seen many ethnicities in many companies - I think it would help to not have "racism" at the forefront of your minds. i.e It's not only unhelpful, it can cloud your perception as to the reasons he may be finding it hard to get a job - which is why you have asked the question you did in the first place. i.e. with the prior assumption

As most other posters have said, I believe that the ineligibility to work is your PRIMARY reason. There are a lot of hoops employers have to go through to sponsor someone who is ineligible to work and nearly all Canadian employers would not bother going through that process to be honest. Especially at this stage

Then there are other reasons: interview style, learning about Canadian culture and styles etc. but I don't think we can comment as this is just an internet forum

As others have said, he can also abbreviate his name on his resume, no harm in trying that if he doesn't mind the shortened name.

Good luck!

Former Lancastrian Apr 24th 2015 10:35 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by dishwashing (Post 11627195)
FL - Does a PNP support letter entitle someone to work in Canada? On an open or closed work permit?

Sorry (off topic)

Yes thats why PNP support letters are issued to PNP applicants so they can work while their applications are being processed at both the Provincial and Federal stages until they get their PR documents. Depending which PNP programme and stream you can have a selected applicant employer specific or nominated applicant which can be both employer specific or open. With either of these letters they can be issued a work permit without the need for the LMIA.

christmasoompa Apr 24th 2015 11:07 am

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626942)
He is waiting for a job offer first , he has had TEFl Test, credentials assesses by both Provinces AIT , he has just applied for Express Entry.

To be honest I don't know why he doesn't just apply for PR , we have been trying our best to get a job offer first then apply for PR.

:confused: You say he's applied for EE, but then say 'I don't know why he doesn't just apply for PR'? Can you clarify what you mean and what he's applied for?

Juggernaut1064 Apr 24th 2015 4:19 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
Firstly if it says CV or Portfolio then change it to Resume, I'm a recruiter and when i see CV the first thing i ask is "what's your immigration status" I dont give a flying nuts if thats offensive, i don't have time to waste on people who can't actually work here in Canada (Not all companies have access to LMIAs) and i'm guessing thats the problem for your husband. I am polite with my response that i can't help them with employment but as stated i don't have time to waste on people who can't accept a job offer if i made one.
Get his immigration status sorted out first ! I'm also assuming being English his spoken English is good ?
This land is not racist, My company has employees from all over the world, i don't care where your from as long as your qualified and experienced and your english is good, Only two weeks ago i orientated a guy from Nepal but his english was excellent.
One week ago i said goodbye to an english (caucasian) friend who was one of a reported 60,000 who had to leave canada with his family.

MillieF Apr 24th 2015 4:19 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
Certainly where I work, we needed a number of engineers in a bit of a hurry, and I did suggest "what about getting them from Britain" there was a resounding "No", not because they are either racist or anti-British, but there is certainly a perception that getting foreign workers will get you caught up in a stream of red tape. I am sure having PR would be a great advantage.

colchar Apr 24th 2015 4:21 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626930)
I think because his name is Mohammed .... It's a massive giveaway and to be honest with all the negative news in the media we think it my be having an effect on Canadian Employers hiring.


You are making a huge assumption here. Did it ever cross your mind that there could be any number of reasons for his inability to find a job that have nothing to do with racism - especially when neither Egyptian nor Muslim are races?

colchar Apr 24th 2015 4:23 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 11627031)
Sorry I take offence at the title of this thread and Yes Im a white guy.
At the moment he is not legally entitled to work in Canada as he only has an Express Entry application submitted and has not been issued a LMIA nor been given a PNP support letter or exempt from a LMIA.
What proof do you have that these employers are racist and discriminating against him based on this. Oh yeah thats right a single employee at an employment office stated in your words that there a lot of racist issues when choosing new employers.
Somebody told me they knew a few muslims who were terrorists and probably had joined ISIS so Im guessing you will agree with this statement?
So the fact that he can't LEGALLY work in Canada at the moment just might have something to do with him not receiving job offers.


^^^This.

JonboyE Apr 24th 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
I remember a report several year ago where some researchers sent two applications for various jobs that were advertized over a period of time. The applications were identical except the applicant on one had a very English sounding name and the other an East Indian one. I can't recall exactly how many times the English applicant was called for interview compared to the East Indian one, but the difference was significant. So, it does happen here and I don't think it is completely fair to accuse the OP of playing the race card. (God, I hate that phrase.)

That said, there are plenty of people with "white" sounding names who get absolutely nowhere just sending resumes.

colchar Apr 24th 2015 4:30 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Juggernaut1064 (Post 11627627)
One week ago and said goodbye to an english (caucasian) friend who was one of a reported 60,000 who had to leave canada with his family.


:confused:

I didn't hear about that. What happened?

Juggernaut1064 Apr 24th 2015 4:55 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by colchar (Post 11627648)
:confused:

I didn't hear about that. What happened?

Was all over the news, up to 60,000 had to leave, not sure if that figure is correct or the press sensationalised it a bit ???

Nuckynoo Apr 24th 2015 5:15 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Dorothy (Post 11627126)
+1

:goodpost:

OP, I find your assertion that your husband isn't getting jobs because of racism offensive. Perhaps if Canada, and in turn Canadians, are racist you would do better to stay where you are.



Did you read my original message ?

It was the Employment Department in Alberta who are Canadians calling the Employers of Alberta racist! Not me

rivingtonpike Apr 24th 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11626930)
I think because his name is Mohammed .... It's a massive giveaway and to be honest with all the negative news in the media we think it my be having an effect on Canadian Employers hiring.
It just gave us a sad sinking feeling and loss of hope. We have spent so much time, energy and money getting documents together, getting credentials assessed etc.

Thx for your response

I'm sorry, but if this isn't a direct accusation of racism by you, then what is it? These are your words, not those of anyone else.

Nuckynoo Apr 24th 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 
My husband has applied for Express Entry but I believe this route isn't guaranteed and MAY or MAYNOT lead to an application being offered for PR.

PS :- Can I just say that they're some replies on here which are confusing. We were not the ones stating that Canadian Employers are racist rather the Employment Agency in Alberta ! They themselves are Canadian telling us as clients that the Employers are racist and are only selecting candidates from Ireland.

Nuckynoo Apr 24th 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by rivingtonpike (Post 11627694)
I'm sorry, but if this isn't a direct accusation of racism by you, then what is it? These are your words, not those of anyone else.

I'm married to the guy plonker !!!

Read my original message dur

rivingtonpike Apr 24th 2015 5:25 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by Nuckynoo (Post 11627698)
I'm married to the guy plonker !!!

Read my original message dur

?
That's not very nice.

worklifebalance Apr 24th 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Racist Employers
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 11627643)
I remember a report several year ago where some researchers sent two applications for various jobs that were advertized over a period of time. The applications were identical except the applicant on one had a very English sounding name and the other an East Indian one. I can't recall exactly how many times the English applicant was called for interview compared to the East Indian one, but the difference was significant. So, it does happen here and I don't think it is completely fair to accuse the OP of playing the race card. (God, I hate that phrase.)

That said, there are plenty of people with "white" sounding names who get absolutely nowhere just sending resumes.

My wife is Chinese/Canadian and was struggling to get any interest in the first 6 months since we arrived - unless it was a Chinese owned company. The last 6 months she has used my family name and she is getting plenty of enquiries which are generating interviews. Possibly it is racist but we also emphasised on the resume that English language skills were excellent and really highlighted English speaking experience and locations. As a quick way for an employer to bin 900 of a 1000 resumes is to assume those with foreign names cannot speak English because there are a significant minority of that group who can't speak good English.


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