OrangeMango

Just wondering, was this experience before or after the new regulation took effect?

By reading through all the comments, it would seem that I am right to understand that "non essential travel" and that enforced "$2000 punishment fine" for the hotel only really applies for "real leisure travel" such as holidays and sun and beach, - not for Canadian citizens returning after a longer absence from Canada due to job/profession, or a business trip closely connected and unavoidable to the well being of the job the company like a key / major client visit, etc...?

Also, I would like to know whether that "Alberta option" with only 48 hours quarantine is still an option?

DigitalGhost

Hotel quarantine hasn't been introduced yet and the details haven't been confirmed. It takes time to set up.

There is no mandatory testing on arrival in Toronto though.

Jerseygirl

I just want to jump in and say...DG if you can delay your move, I would and get the vaccine in the UK. It’s just a huge mess here as far as vaccinations are concerned.

OrangeMango

Maybe if we're in luck it never will be, if this link is to be believed, it could possibly be:

https://www.jccf.ca/federal-governme...g_HWJ9CgV3U1qg


“There is no rational reason to incarcerate Canadians simply because they exercised their constitutional right to leave the country as protected by section 6 of the Charter,” stated Justice Centre President John Carpay. “It is not rational to impose a 14-day quarantine upon asymptomatic individuals who are able to provide negative test results confirming their lack of infection. Moreover, the federal government has admitted it is well-aware that international air travel results in a negligible number of active cases.”

And also:The letter states the government’s arrest and detention of Canadians in this fashion is unlawful and unconstitutional, and demands the immediate release of any Canadian currently being so detained, permitting them to continue any necessary isolation protocols in their personal residences.

The legal warning letter notes, “This is not China or Cuba, or Chile under Pinochet, or Spain under Franco, or theocratic Iran. We are not prepared to permit you and your government to turn Canada into a repressive replica of countries that have no respect for human rights and civil liberties.”


I thought there already was until the recent announcement, or at least the way and the publicity or populism it was announced - before that it was voluntary as I recall.

Siouxie

There is in Toronto
https://www.torontopearson.com/en/he...oronto-pearson

OrangeMango

Travellers required to test:

• International arriving passengers, remaining in Ontario
• International travellers connecting to other destinations within Ontario

I'd say this shows how badly formulated this statement is: Anybody going anywhere within Ontario is effectively remaining in Ontario.

Also, it's pretty inefficient: Anybody arriving at Pearson and connecting to provinces other than Ontario is not legally required to take this test? Why? And even worse, in the apparently rare event if one is contagious and hasn't taken the test, one could still infect other travellers from within canada at the airport as well as during the domestic flight.

I honestly don't see the logic on this.

Siouxie

Presumably worded that way as they only have jurisdiction over Ontario..

scilly

Ah well, BC's Provincial Health Officer has extended the Emergency Pandemic Restrictions for the "foreseeable future" or "indefinitely", depending on which news report read/seen/heard.

They were put in existence last November and were due to expire at midnight Feb 5th.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...2020-1.5902427

DigitalGhost

Sorry, that was a typo on my part. I meant to write "there is mandatory testing on arrival in Toronto". I think I must have been tired when I wrote that.

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DigitalGhost

I ideally would but unfortunately I don't think it's possible at this point. I have a job to start, my PRTD expires next month and I need to pick up my PR card when I get back. Plus the lease on my flat in the UK expires in a couple of weeks and I'm getting close on falling short of RO although not dangerously close atm.

It is amazing how a country that has spent more on vaccines per capita than any other country on Earth has managed to make such a dog's dinner out of its deployment. The UK and US get a partial pass because they invented the three main vaccines used in Western medicine right now but it is fair to compare Canada's numbers with the likes of Israel and the UAE. When you do that, Canada does not come off well.

darkneal

thought i'd ask your opinion on if you think my travel is 'essential'.

Im travelling in march. My work does not change, my job is as a freelance illustrator, i can do my job anywhere in the world as long as there is internet. I will remain self employed free lance in canada initially at least. But technically no, i dont have to be there to work, or anywhere really.

But one reason i do need to go is the time limit on my PR card. You have to be in canada for 3 years out of the 5 the PR card gives you to apply for citizenship. 2 years of the 5 run out in august, meaning i have to be there by august if i want to stay and live in canada for the rest of my life. The first year i didnt go cause i was taking my time, getting everything ready for an optimum move...then the next year covid happened, and ive been waiting patiently for a year now for the right time to go. There isnt going to be one till 2022 at this rate. to make matters worse i had moved home to my Mothers so i could store my stuff, it just made logistical sense. Now ive been stuck here almost a year, without my usual independance, basically dying to get out of here! My mental health isn't great, and thats been turning into physical health problems that i know would clear up the minute i got out of here....

I dont want to wait till the last possible moment to make sure i hit that 3yr target, and i dont see the rules that are in effect or the covid situation being much different in august to what they are right now. They could be worse. there could be no travel. there could be a weeks isolation in a hotel before going to quarantine.

so, is that essential travel?

OrangeMango

It's say it's essential travel and you would be exempt, if there is actually such an option of being exempt on this

The statement reads that "new measures" are announced for "non essential travel" like holidays.

You're not on holidays, you're working, whether that's freelance or not, it doesn't matter.

On top of that there are residency obligations to fulfil as a PR to keep your status in Canada.

An obligation can legally never be seen as "non essential" as one is obliged to do something specific under certain conditions.

It's also unclear how exact this text has been written? There is no definition what is deemed "essential" or "non essential". One can only guess that anything leisurely is non essential, business, immigration, returning citizens after work oversees are essential. The "new measures" were "announced" but it was apparently not said, from what date they would be effective?

DigitalGhost

I would say yes because no official statement has been made regarding waivers for residency obligation.

For what little it matters, IMHO this was a huge mistake on the part of the Canadian government. There are a lot of PR's who would have been out of the country when the travel restrictions were introduced 11 months ago. Adding a waiver at that point for those PR's who were in safe in another country would have offered those people some assurance as well as the Canadian public. Instead people are either returning during the quarantine and travel restrictions or are going to roll the dice with the H&C process. It doesn't make any sense and just seems like a classic case of bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.

darkneal

Thanks for the replies...but I've cancelled the trip. My anxiety was going at warp speed and i just can't function when this happens, I get little to no sleep. It also is a good indication that i really should be listening to my gut. Its just such a bad time to go, whatever way I looked at it, so i'll keep my options open and more than likely go on a whim during the summer if things have calmed down. Or even wait till the autumn and get the vaccination here first. I'll see if i can find a short-term let here for a bit.

I wonder if the Canadian government will give special dispensation to those of us who have lost years from their PR period because of the pandemic and maybe give those years back? (or at least make re-applying a helluva lot easier for us this time around)

christmasoompa

Sorry to say, but I don't think they will. PR's have been able to return to Canada at any time, so there is no reason why they'd give leeway on the residency obligation IMO.

I agree with the others, that your travel is essential - you are a resident returning to live, that's very different to somebody resident elsewhere wanting a nice holiday.