Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Old Jul 8th 2020, 2:51 pm
  #16  
Sidecar Falcon
 
DigitalGhost's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,584
DigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond repute
Default Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
That's not as clear as you think. I imagine that one of the most probable times and places to acquire the virus is during a transatlantic flight. A test upon landing would be about 5 days too soon.
I could be wrong but I think you will still test positive though even if you're entirely asymptomatic.
DigitalGhost is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 3:25 pm
  #17  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 274
OrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond repute
Default Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That would be a massive contravention of basic human rights. Countries aren't even allowed to tag refugees unless they have been refused status and are on release pending removal. Even the US doesn't electronically tag innocent people.
True, but this is a pandemic, and this kind of emergency justifies emergency measures. Anybody can have creative thoughts. In the end, they'd either hire an army of secret agents to police the quarantine, or they come up with some electronic tagging, or they start the more reasonable approach and allow air bridges with certain countries.

Donald Trump would tag everyone he doesn't like if he could. He'd be starting with the Latinos and continue with all other immigrants, if he still lets immigrants in.
OrangeMango is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 3:30 pm
  #18  
Sidecar Falcon
 
DigitalGhost's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,584
DigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond repute
Default Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
True, but this is a pandemic, and this kind of emergency justifies emergency measures.
I can't agree with you there, I'm sorry. Whilst some additional precautions are definitely justified, I think there's a limit.

Let's not forget that over the last few months, Canada has still been welcoming new immigrants and refugees arriving from around the world, some of whom have been fleeing persecution in their homelands. It's not going to look very nice if they greet those people with "welcome to Canada, a land of opportunity and freedom. Now if you can stick out your ankle, we're just going to attach this device we normally reserve for people who've been caught nicking stuff from Walmart. Because, you know, Covid".
DigitalGhost is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 3:36 pm
  #19  
MODERATOR
 
Siouxie's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 17,718
Siouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

I have moved the posts from the OP's question regarding students coming into Canada in September as the thread has been taken somewhat off topic and more of a discussion about politics or finances...


Last edited by Siouxie; Jul 8th 2020 at 3:43 pm.
Siouxie is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 3:56 pm
  #20  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 274
OrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I can't agree with you there, I'm sorry. Whilst some additional precautions are definitely justified, I think there's a limit.

Let's not forget that over the last few months, Canada has still been welcoming new immigrants and refugees arriving from around the world, some of whom have been fleeing persecution in their homelands. It's not going to look very nice if they greet those people with "welcome to Canada, a land of opportunity and freedom. Now if you can stick out your ankle, we're just going to attach this device we normally reserve for people who've been caught nicking stuff from Walmart. Because, you know, Covid".
Let's hope you're right and let's hope that I am very wrong.....
OrangeMango is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 4:32 pm
  #21  
Slightly Canadian
 
Atlantic Xpat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 9,775
Atlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond reputeAtlantic Xpat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
That's not as clear as you think. I imagine that one of the most probable times and places to acquire the virus is during a transatlantic flight. A test upon landing would be about 5 days too soon.
Hello Professor. Trust you are well?

There is an argument that being on a flight with HEPA air filtration and everyone masked up is perhaps the safest place to be from a catching the virus perspective. One wonders whether flight crew - who by their very nature of their work spend lots of time on aircraft, are showing a higher infection rate than other professions?
Atlantic Xpat is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 4:47 pm
  #22  
Born again atheist
 
Novocastrian's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,238
Novocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I could be wrong but I think you will still test positive though even if you're entirely asymptomatic.
The tests aren't anyway like sensitive enough to show a positive before the virus has had at least several days to replicate several hundred "generations". Moreover the test is not a test for symptoms, It's a test for the presence of the virus itself.
Novocastrian is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 7:16 pm
  #23  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Sep 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 730
bc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond reputebc2015 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat View Post
Hello Professor. Trust you are well?

There is an argument that being on a flight with HEPA air filtration and everyone masked up is perhaps the safest place to be from a catching the virus perspective. One wonders whether flight crew - who by their very nature of their work spend lots of time on aircraft, are showing a higher infection rate than other professions?
A filter will clean the air so that someone who is infected down the back of the plane won't infect the whole plane, but it doesn't protect those in close proximity to an infected person. That's where the mask comes in but I've also heard reports that people are removing masks once airborne. Flight crew don't interact as much with passengers (no trolley service, no hot meals etc...)
bc2015 is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 9:13 pm
  #24  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,149
scilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

This idea that the test at the airport will prove everything is fine is for the garbage!

There are tests for two "symptoms" which are supposed to prove that a) your temperature is normal AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME and b) a swab of the throat or nose that atm is taking a day for a good test result to be done, and that only proves that at the moment the swab was taken there are no virus particles present in the mucus of the area swabbed

In most people's eyes, including it seems a lot of people on here!, that seems to be proof that everything will be OK, no virus being brought in

Balderdash ... to use a very old swear word

The person could develop symptoms 10 minutes later, after s/he has been let loose to swan around anywhere they like.

Read a little bit of science, instead of complaining that you can't come here because you somehow think Canada is behind the times, and you are obviously more important than residents and citizens who wish to be able to avoid coronavirus because it could be lethal for them.


Another thing for you to consider is that everyone talks about normal temperature being somewhere around 37C and 38C is a fever ........... and anyone who tests say 37.2C is OK, no need to worry unless it records 38C or more

Balderdash, again.

The range is from 36.1C to 37.2C, and temperature also fluctuates during the day, being lower in the morning than in the afternoon.

My normal average temperature is 36.4 to 36.5C in the morning.

If it reaches 36.9 or 37C in the morning, I have a temperature ........... but would the person doing the test at the airport know that?

Similarly my temperature around 5 pm is 36.8 to 37C ........ 37.5C or above would be a fever for me, but is acceptable as it falls below 38C.

I'm not alone in having a lower normal average temperature ............ so how many people have been allowed through airport screening, into bars, shops, etc etc when they do actually have a raised temperature and thus a fever?????

Too many people are talking out the backs of their heads about this virus, including the trumpoid, and the Brazilian President, and people on the street who are thinking only of themselves, and distrust what anyone else says.
scilly is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 9:47 pm
  #25  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Stumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am not certain if the UK should be on a list of "air bridges" when it comes to quarantine free arrivals into Canada. However other countries, like Germany, the Czech, the Slovak republics, and Austria could be. Today's technology would also be able to offer solutions to check, whether one has really spent the last 14 days in one of these countries. One doesn't need more secret police to do that, IT technology can solve this problem with ease....
Trouble is Germany had a sky rocket of cases last week due to a major outbreak at a meet processing plant (the UK have had a couple but the meat processing plants are smaller) - would only take an outbreak like that close to an international airport and the country becomes unsafe overnight. (issue also being with the meat processing plant in Germany as large number where young immigrants in good health, they didnt know they'd got it, so had spread to 500+ folk before the tests were undertaken).

Add to this another less scrupulous emigration/immigration forum I was browsing yesterday, already had a large population from Asian nations already discussing how whilst they can't get on flights from their home country to Canada unless they are being repatriated, they can fly to Germany and the Netherlands - and how both these countries had numerous direct flights to Canada starting from later this month, asking whether they would need tourist/transit visa's etc. if they were just passing through the country on to a different country, and how passport control etc worked for interconnecting flights. So if these countries have more open borders than Canada they are at risk of having people transit through them for their final destination (and this gets even more awkward when there are only land borders).

Personally I think until the USA has it under control - Trudeau can't open the borders as it would cause too much grief to open internationally but not to the US. Although there is that bit of me that wonders whether America is actually doing itself a favour economically right now by being so reckless (As in 90 days from now, they may have 300,000 dead, but it's done the rounds and fizzles out - they are effectively no longer at risk, but those countries that have controlled it will be continually at risk from other countries). It's akin to burning your house down so it doesn't get destroyed by wildfire but may mean Trump can start being Trump and making America Great and have a swinging economy come election time (albeit with a mass death toll and a national casket shortage) when compared to those countries that are still in cautious lock down.

Last edited by Stumpylegs; Jul 8th 2020 at 9:56 pm.
Stumpylegs is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2020, 9:55 pm
  #26  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 209
Stumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond reputeStumpylegs has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by scilly View Post
The range is from 36.1C to 37.2C, and temperature also fluctuates during the day, being lower in the morning than in the afternoon.

My normal average temperature is 36.4 to 36.5C in the morning.

If it reaches 36.9 or 37C in the morning, I have a temperature ........... but would the person doing the test at the airport know that?

Similarly my temperature around 5 pm is 36.8 to 37C ........ 37.5C or above would be a fever for me, but is acceptable as it falls below 38C.

I'm not alone in having a lower normal average temperature ............ so how many people have been allowed through airport screening, into bars, shops, etc etc when they do actually have a raised temperature and thus a fever?????
And on the opposite side I suffered from Glandular fever to the point it almost killed me in my mid 20's as a result now sleep deprivation/messing with my circadian rhythm makes me ill, as in brings back glandular fever symptoms to a lesser extent - when the clocks change i write off the following week as I know i will either end up sleeping 12+ hr days for a few days and feeling slightly rough, or powering through it and getting ill, ending up with a chest infection etc.

You know what also messes with my circadian rhythm - the long days that come in prepping for a holiday, the long day of travel, and the changing time zones - I get off most transatlantic flights with an illness about to onset, typically i can shake it off in 3 days if I have a semi quiet schedule and can get plenty of sleep, but powering through will mean I fall ill 7-10 days later. I would imagine any flight into Canada I took I would quite possibly have a high temperature by landing time - would such checks end up with a bunch of people properly quarantined, tested, locked down and track and trace taking place because some people can't adjust to unusual sleep schedules.
Stumpylegs is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2020, 1:01 am
  #27  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Gozit's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,438
Gozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond reputeGozit has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

I find it interesting this thread has gone the way it has given my posts the other day about the quarantine period being extended.

I have been saying from the beginning we will lag behind as long as the US is a shitshow, even though our outbreak is looking more like Europe.

If the virus supposedly takes 5 days to show up, i'd be happy to take a test prior to departing international destination, one at the airport on arrival, self isolate for 5 days and then take a test, all at my own expense since most travel is discretionary... 5 days is a lot more manageable then 14.
Gozit is online now  
Old Jul 9th 2020, 3:11 am
  #28  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,149
scilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond reputescilly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Gozit ...... but is seems more likely that the virus takes up to 14 days to show up after infection, not 5

That's why we have 14 day quarantines across the country.

I trust the BC Provincial Medical Officer of Health more than anyone else.

For one thing, she has the most experience of pandemics than anyone else that I've heard about .............. Ebola in Nigeria, SARS in Toronto, MERS, polio in Pakistan.

She started preparing plans for BC back in early January when she first realised how bad the news was from China.

I think that was before almost anyone else realised how bad it was going to be for the rest of us.
scilly is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2020, 10:06 am
  #29  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 274
OrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond reputeOrangeMango has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
Trouble is Germany had a sky rocket of cases last week due to a major outbreak at a meet processing plant (the UK have had a couple but the meat processing plants are smaller) - would only take an outbreak like that close to an international airport and the country becomes unsafe overnight. (issue also being with the meat processing plant in Germany as large number where young immigrants in good health, they didnt know they'd got it, so had spread to 500+ folk before the tests were undertaken).
I am aware of this, I have read about it. However that's not so much travel related, it's more community spread. The cases Germany has had were always around meat processing and food processing, immigrants working under inhumane conditions, also issues with senior care homes and various religions christian sects and cults meeting up. Travellers can now arrive from the UK in Germany quarantine free, with much higher figures in the UK than Germany, but again, the spread from this kind of travel is minimal oddly possibly also none? Why this is the case, I don't know. It's a similar issue along the land border with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, where British citizens can travel into the Republic, and theoretically spread the virus. Apparently there is also no spread this way?

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
Add to this another less scrupulous emigration/immigration forum I was browsing yesterday, already had a large population from Asian nations already discussing how whilst they can't get on flights from their home country to Canada unless they are being repatriated, they can fly to Germany and the Netherlands - and how both these countries had numerous direct flights to Canada starting from later this month, asking whether they would need tourist/transit visa's etc. if they were just passing through the country on to a different country, and how passport control etc worked for interconnecting flights. So if these countries have more open borders than Canada they are at risk of having people transit through them for their final destination (and this gets even more awkward when there are only land borders).
An air bridge could naturally only apply to people, residents or citizens from one country, not Asians transiting via Germany to Canada. Anybody not able to produce any kind of residence-oriented documents from any of these countries would be barred from boarding the plane or never receive an eTA which is necessary for non citizens entering Canada anyway. The only problem is that people will find a way around it. At the same time, US citizens could simply walk across the undefended border into Canada. It seems unlikely though, but not impossible.

Thus I am surprised that Canada doesn't introduce more stringent measures like tagging electronically all incoming passengers, to see whether they adhere to the quarantine or not. In the end, a law which is not enforced is no law at all. Also if Canada was to exempt certain countries from quarantine requirements the CBSA could focus on policing those incoming travellers from high risk countries. In the end, Canada can't or at least should not blame Ireland or Germany for the ills of the US, Brazil or Russia.

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post

Personally I think until the USA has it under control - Trudeau can't open the borders as it would cause too much grief to open internationally but not to the US. Although there is that bit of me that wonders whether America is actually doing itself a favour economically right now by being so reckless (As in 90 days from now, they may have 300,000 dead, but it's done the rounds and fizzles out - they are effectively no longer at risk, but those countries that have controlled it will be continually at risk from other countries). It's akin to burning your house down so it doesn't get destroyed by wildfire but may mean Trump can start being Trump and making America Great and have a swinging economy come election time (albeit with a mass death toll and a national casket shortage) when compared to those countries that are still in cautious lock down.
The problem with the US is not only Donald Trump and his re-election but also, when Corona came to the US the virus exploited serious underlying conditions of that country, Chronic and existing ills are a corrupt political class, ( not only the Trump family) , a sclerotic bureaucracy, a heartless economy, a divided and distracted public and these symptoms have gone untreated for years. Trump was one issue, Corona another one, both can't fix these ills, they'll never be able.. The question is also whether the US is on the path to a failed state. I'd say regarding Corona the border between the US and Canada will stay closed for a very long time. It could easily be several years, especially if Corona isn't under control.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Jul 9th 2020 at 10:11 am.
OrangeMango is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2020, 10:32 am
  #30  
Sidecar Falcon
 
DigitalGhost's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,584
DigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond reputeDigitalGhost has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Thus I am surprised that Canada doesn't introduce more stringent measures like tagging electronically all incoming passengers, to see whether they adhere to the quarantine or not. In the end, a law which is not enforced is no law at all.
So in other words, you support a country which has long considered itself one of the most liberal and welcoming on Earth transforming itself into a police state where people are effectively singled out and considered guilty until proven innocent?

Arguably the clearest separation between a country like Canada and another like China is that Canada gives its citizens the freedom to do the right thing without resorting to oppression, persecution and mass surveillance.
DigitalGhost is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.