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Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Old Aug 2nd 2020, 8:47 pm
  #226  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
“Canada has made tremendous strides during the pandemic but it cannot remain isolated forever.”
But it can remain isolated for the foreseeable future with less deaths and considerably less public health spending.

The question isn't how much BC relies on tourism, which seems to be a big discussion point - but a) how much of that tourism comes from "safe" nations and b) how much of that tourism would actually show up if the borders were opened to "safe countries" tomorrow.

​​​​​The summer season is knackered, how much the winter season depends on European or American travel is £????, but we've still got 4 months to see if the world is in a better position.

If Canada can see out the winter without the financial input of European tourists (as that as it what the discussion seems to be as no one is suggesting letting the Americans or Chinese in, whether that's safer or riskier) why can't it wait until next May to reopen?


Last edited by Stumpylegs; Aug 2nd 2020 at 8:51 pm.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 8:51 pm
  #227  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
But it can remain isolated for the foreseeable future with less deaths and considerably less public health spending.

The question isn't how much BC relies on tourism, which seems to be a big discussion point - but a) how much of that tourism comes from "safe" nations and b) how much of that tourism would actually show up if the borders were opened to "safe countries" tomorrow.

​​​​​The summer season is knackered, how much the winter season depends on European or American travel is £????, but we've still got 4 months to see if the world is in a better position.

If Canada can see out the winter without the finance input of European tourists (as that as it what the discussion seems to be as no one is suggesting letting the Americans or Chinese in, whether that's safer or riskier) why can't it wait until next May to reopen?
It's not just tourism, it's business travel as well. It's quite tricky to woo investors or tech firms from Germany, the UK and Japan if your government won't even allow them into the country.

Business travel is actually the normal bread and butter for the airline industry. Tourists usually pay a lot less to fly and are just a nice way to put bums on otherwise empty seats.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 8:58 pm
  #228  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Exactly my words: Executives pointed out that the EU and Switzerland are “safe jurisdictions” with many countries having lower infection rates than Canada.

“Canada has made tremendous strides during the pandemic but it cannot remain isolated forever.”
It is strange how a country that, until just a few months ago, prided itself on being far more welcoming, globalist and liberal then its southern neighbour, has become insanely paranoid, insular and backward about anything or anyone from the outside world. You actually have to wonder if many of the prejudices being expressed these days were actually there all along.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:03 pm
  #229  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It's not just tourism, it's business travel as well. It's quite tricky to woo investors or tech firms from Germany, the UK and Japan if your government won't even allow them into the country.

Business travel is actually the normal bread and butter for the airline industry. Tourists usually pay a lot less to fly and are just a nice way to put bums on otherwise empty seats.
True but I still the fact that Canada can remain isolated for the forseeable future holds up (as can NZ, Australia etc).

With regards getting people back flying that's different as it's specifically about saving the airline industry and associated support roles.

Without the tourists filling empty seats the cost of business travel goes even higher to the point that even without travel restrictions companies may not make use of it (with the reality checks and tightened purse strings of covid).

Add to this the whole world has now realised it can work remotely and I feel the need for business travel has dropped greatly - I don't think Europe/US/Asia have much business travel between regions currently or for the foreseeable.

You've also got to wonder what money Canadian tourism can retain by not having Canadians leave the country for vacations - if those people are still earning the same amount of money should they not save it will be going elsewhere in the economy - whether that be domestic tourism, a new car, making the most of eating out once it's back open etc.

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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:11 pm
  #230  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post

Add to this the whole world has now realised it can work remotely and I feel the need for business travel has dropped greatly - I don't think Europe/US/Asia have much business travel between regions currently or for the foreseeable.
I can only speak from my own experiences but from what I've observed, that simply isn't true. I work in IT Cloud Infrastructure and have one of those jobs that could essentially be done from anywhere however the company I work for have repeatedly emphasised that they want people back in the office. In fact I am now attending my office for a few days each week and on a voluntary basis after months of working from home.

For a business to function properly it needs real collaboration and team work and there's a limit to what can be achieved over a VC apps. That's not to mention the social aspects of work and face to face relationships are especially important for sales and investment.

This current reliance on things like Zoom is a means to an end. It isn't, IMHO, a taste of the future. There are people in my company at director level who are already planning cross-continental business trips for as soon as it is feasible to have them.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:15 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
True but I still the fact that Canada can remain isolated for the forseeable future holds up (as can NZ, Australia etc).
Australia and New Zealand should not be considered a poster child atm. The Australian economy is set for record levels of recession and unemployment and I'd hate to see what the NZ economy might look like in a year from now.

If those countries could afford to barrier themselves off from the world in the style of the United States then they would have done so long, long ago. As it stands, NZ was still sending people out on immigrant recruitment drives until this year.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:50 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It is strange how a country that, until just a few months ago, prided itself on being far more welcoming, globalist and liberal then its southern neighbour, has become insanely paranoid, insular and backward about anything or anyone from the outside world. You actually have to wonder if many of the prejudices being expressed these days were actually there all along.
Of course they were.you only have to pay attention to posts on here to realise that.

As for missing foriegn tourism it's been replaced by Canadians. Towns, beaches , Provinicial Parks have been overwhelmed with people and Prince Edward County was all but closed to visitors. Whether tgey spend as much as overseas tourists remains to be seen.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:55 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

It's a fine line to walk, managing a virus and not having mass unemployment which then leads to more people being homeless, and going hungry. It already near impossible to find a job these days, and certainly not enough industries hiring in large enough numbers to absorb the tends of thousands out of work in the hotel, tourism, and airline industry alone.

Not sure what the answer is, but for those of us with limited experience outside the tourism, hotel, airline industry its really hard to find any kind of work, and while health is important, so is housing and food, both of which require good sums of money to have.

One problem is the general public doesn't seem to keen on opening Canada up to foreign tourists, so the politicians are not pushing much for it, just read any of the comments on any article mentioning a COVID exposure on flights, of which several into Vancouver from Europe where there was COVID exposure, along with Mexico and a few US flights as well.



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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 9:57 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by bats View Post
Of course they were.you only have to pay attention to posts on here to realise that.

As for missing foriegn tourism it's been replaced by Canadians. Towns, beaches , Provinicial Parks have been overwhelmed with people and Prince Edward County was all but closed to visitors. Whether tgey spend as much as overseas tourists remains to be seen.
Very good point.

The problem with restricting a country only to domestic tourism is that it's a short term plan at best. Most people will only want to see a country's sites once and in a country like Canada where the landmass is huge and domestic travel is far from cheap, this is only going to be worse.

The US does this but its population is gigantic. I think it's fair to say that America doesn't make any foreign traveler feel welcome. The VWP is a pain in the arse even for the select few nationalities eligible to use it and securing a B visa even more so yet America has a lot of USP's that Canada simply doesn't.

Realistically, how many Canadians are going to exchange their annual holiday in Cuba, Mexico, Europe or the DR for a week in an overpriced Toronto or Vancouver AirBnB or a long family drive down to Niagara Falls?
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 10:01 pm
  #235  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
One problem is the general public doesn't seem to keen on opening Canada up to foreign tourists, so the politicians are not pushing much for it, just read any of the comments on any article mentioning a COVID exposure on flights, of which several into Vancouver from Europe where there was COVID exposure, along with Mexico and a few US flights as well.
I saw that link you posted and in that limited list alone, flights originating in Canada were also a factor.

I'm going to give Canada a limited amount of space and guess that a lot of the xenophobia coming out of Canadians atm is due to the situation in the US but that kind of goodwill will not be there forever. For Canada to wag the finger and tut in most of Europe's direction right now is quite frankly ridiculous.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 11:06 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Very good point.

The problem with restricting a country only to domestic tourism is that it's a short term plan at best. Most people will only want to see a country's sites once and in a country like Canada where the landmass is huge and domestic travel is far from cheap, this is only going to be worse.

The US does this but its population is gigantic. I think it's fair to say that America doesn't make any foreign traveler feel welcome. The VWP is a pain in the arse even for the select few nationalities eligible to use it and securing a B visa even more so yet America has a lot of USP's that Canada simply doesn't.

Realistically, how many Canadians are going to exchange their annual holiday in Cuba, Mexico, Europe or the DR for a week in an overpriced Toronto or Vancouver AirBnB or a long family drive down to Niagara Falls?
Oh not many, they will be off as soon as they can. The behaviour of many of the GTA visitors is appalling so the sooner they are gone the better.
It will be different this winter with the snowbirds staying at home.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 11:09 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by bats View Post
Oh not many, they will be off as soon as they can. The behaviour of many of the GTA visitors is appalling so the sooner they are gone the better.
It will be different this winter with the snowbirds staying at home.
Yeah I'd imagine Florida is the last place many of them would want to be right now. They could all head over to Greece or somewhere though if they were really so inclined.
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Old Aug 2nd 2020, 11:11 pm
  #238  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

There isn't anywhere near enough domestic tourism to replace US and foreign visitors, at least here in BC.

Provincial hotel occupancy is hovering in the 20%-%30% range and that isn't sustainable, and some hotels have simply chosen to close for now.

Vancouver last weekend, 93% of hotel rooms were empty, a weekend in the summer and 93% of available hotel rooms empty.


Sure its not the time to reopen and I am not pushing for re-opening just clarifying there isn't anywhere close to enough domestic tourists to make up for the loss of US and foreign tourists.


It will be interesting to see is snow birds stay home this winter, the US as of now is still letting Canadian's fly into the US for non-essential reasons, so there isn't really anything stopping a dedicated snow bird who wants to flee the Canadian winter.

If snowbirds to stay home in large numbers, my mom's area is going to suffer, they are very reliant on Canadian snowbirds for the local economy.

Based on Air Transat pulling out of western Canada for all US and sun destinations this winter, seems they don't expect any demand for sun destinations this year though.


Last edited by Jsmth321; Aug 2nd 2020 at 11:15 pm.
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Old Aug 3rd 2020, 10:03 am
  #239  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post

It will be interesting to see is snow birds stay home this winter, the US as of now is still letting Canadian's fly into the US for non-essential reasons, so there isn't really anything stopping a dedicated snow bird who wants to flee the Canadian winter.

If snowbirds to stay home in large numbers, my mom's area is going to suffer, they are very reliant on Canadian snowbirds for the local economy.

Based on Air Transat pulling out of western Canada for all US and sun destinations this winter, seems they don't expect any demand for sun destinations this year though.
To be fair, if they just flew down to Florida, stayed in a villa and used supermarket food deliveries, then they're at no more risk than they would be anywhere else and that has to be preferable to spending months in a Canadian winter.
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Old Aug 3rd 2020, 5:05 pm
  #240  
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