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QROPS and 10 year ruling

QROPS and 10 year ruling

Old Oct 12th 2016, 3:17 pm
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Default QROPS and 10 year ruling

Can someone try to clarify this in plain English please.

My Scotia FA seems to think I can't withdraw from my QROPS for 10 years.

Situation: I am 61. My personal pensions were transferred into QROPS last year just prior to turning 60. I have been resident in Canada since 2004. I keep trying to tell him that he his wrong about this. I don't intend to start withdrawing from the QROPS until I'm 65 but as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to start withdrawing at any time since I'm over 55.

The way I see it Scotia just has to report to the UK for 10 years.....although I'm unsure when the 10 years started. Date of residency.....date of transfer.....date of starting withdrawals from QROPS?

The formal documents just don't seem to make it absolutely clear.

Thanks

Cathie
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Old Oct 12th 2016, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Originally Posted by CDNReturner View Post
Can someone try to clarify this in plain English please.

My Scotia FA seems to think I can't withdraw from my QROPS for 10 years.

Situation: I am 61. My personal pensions were transferred into QROPS last year just prior to turning 60. I have been resident in Canada since 2004. I keep trying to tell him that he his wrong about this. I don't intend to start withdrawing from the QROPS until I'm 65 but as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to start withdrawing at any time since I'm over 55.

The way I see it Scotia just has to report to the UK for 10 years.....although I'm unsure when the 10 years started. Date of residency.....date of transfer.....date of starting withdrawals from QROPS?

The formal documents just don't seem to make it absolutely clear.

Thanks

Cathie

I'm with you and your understanding here.


It is a ten year ROPS reporting obligation intended to tell HMRC so they can monitor if you withdraw more than the UK rules would have allowed for your age etc. and tax you accordingly. Now that you are over age 55, I can't see any problems here at all - not from a UK or ROPS point of view.


I am not a financial adviser, but have work in UK life and pensions all my life. I suspect Otto the Squid may be along shortly who should be able to give chapter and verse.


I think the ten year period is from when the money was transferred to your Canadian equivalent

Last edited by Hurlabrick; Oct 12th 2016 at 3:42 pm.
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Old Oct 12th 2016, 4:51 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Originally Posted by CDNReturner View Post
Can someone try to clarify this in plain English please.

My Scotia FA seems to think I can't withdraw from my QROPS for 10 years.

Situation: I am 61. My personal pensions were transferred into QROPS last year just prior to turning 60. I have been resident in Canada since 2004. I keep trying to tell him that he his wrong about this. I don't intend to start withdrawing from the QROPS until I'm 65 but as far as I'm concerned I'm allowed to start withdrawing at any time since I'm over 55.

The way I see it Scotia just has to report to the UK for 10 years.....although I'm unsure when the 10 years started. Date of residency.....date of transfer.....date of starting withdrawals from QROPS?

The formal documents just don't seem to make it absolutely clear.

Thanks

Cathie



Your Scotia IFA is wrong.....full stop.


It is a worrying trend that people who offer advice on QROPS do simply not know the rules.


The rules of QROPS allow withdrawals from the age of 55. The 10 year rule they are referring to is the timescale that Scotia are obliged to report to the UK in regards to a QROPS transfer...............not that you cannot withdraw for 10 years from the day of the transfer !!
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Old Oct 12th 2016, 5:17 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Get your Scotia FA out of the picture and deal direct with the specialist ROPS unit that I believe is buried somewhere in Scotia HQ.
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Old Oct 12th 2016, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Thanks all. I know he dealt specifically with HQ as I had to kick up a major fuss when my small contracting out pension went missing and was about to pull the stop on the larger amount. At the time he understood from them that I couldn't start taking it out even though I kept telling him I really don't believe that is true.

I had hoped since over a year has gone by HQ now new better. Apparently, he is on to them to get it reclarified but asked me to get it clarified as well.
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Old Oct 12th 2016, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

I assume you mean you contracted out and into a personal pension.

If so, all that 'protected rights' stuff went by the board ages ago. April 2014 was 'pension freedom' for DC pensions, from then on age 55 minimum as the age and you could take what you wanted by a variety of means.
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Old Oct 13th 2016, 5:32 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

I transferred my UK pension via QROPS a few years ago, and I still don't entirely understand where I stand with it.

Some things I read say I can transfer it out of the QROPS RRSP account into my regular RRSP accounts after 5 years. I've read other things that say 10 years.

It's confusing... anyone care to shed some light?
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Old Oct 13th 2016, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Originally Posted by Photoplex View Post
I transferred my UK pension via QROPS a few years ago, and I still don't entirely understand where I stand with it.

Some things I read say I can transfer it out of the QROPS RRSP account into my regular RRSP accounts after 5 years. I've read other things that say 10 years.

It's confusing... anyone care to shed some light?
There is a ten year reporting period. This is the main thing that the Canadian RRSP provider has to agree to do with the UK HMRC in order for HMRC to put it on the ROPS list in the first place!

The whole purpose of this reporting period was to ensure that people that transferred their pensions either did not access them before they would have been allowed to in the UK or if they did, they would pay massive extra tax to HMRC.

With the 'pension freedoms' introduced in April 2014, where you can take all of the personal pension proceeds from age 55 if you want, it all seems a bit academic.

None of this should really matter that much, you should now at your age be able to do whatever you want whether it is a ROPS RRSP or non-ROPS RRSP.
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Old Oct 13th 2016, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Originally Posted by Hurlabrick View Post
There is a ten year reporting period. This is the main thing that the Canadian RRSP provider has to agree to do with the UK HMRC in order for HMRC to put it on the ROPS list in the first place!

The whole purpose of this reporting period was to ensure that people that transferred their pensions either did not access them before they would have been allowed to in the UK or if they did, they would pay massive extra tax to HMRC.

With the 'pension freedoms' introduced in April 2014, where you can take all of the personal pension proceeds from age 55 if you want, it all seems a bit academic.

None of this should really matter that much, you should now at your age be able to do whatever you want whether it is a ROPS RRSP or non-ROPS RRSP.
Hold on - at my age? I'm in my 30s, nowhere near 55. When can I transfer the money out to a different RRSP? The transfer happened in 2013.

By my reckoning, I should be able to move it in 2023 after Scotia stop having to report on it.

But then, I wasn't a UK tax resident since 2008 (ish), which could mean 5 years, and thus 2018?

Last edited by Photoplex; Oct 13th 2016 at 8:08 pm.
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Old Oct 14th 2016, 10:23 am
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Default Re: QROPS and 10 year ruling

Originally Posted by Photoplex View Post
Hold on - at my age? I'm in my 30s, nowhere near 55. When can I transfer the money out to a different RRSP? The transfer happened in 2013.

By my reckoning, I should be able to move it in 2023 after Scotia stop having to report on it.

But then, I wasn't a UK tax resident since 2008 (ish), which could mean 5 years, and thus 2018?
Sorry, thought you were the OP.

Yes, you will be able to move it to another RRSP after ten years - that would be ten years from 2013 as the ten year reporting period starts from the date of transfer. Standing by to be corrected!
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