Pros and Cons
 

Howdie!

I'm going through the PR application via my wife who is a Canadian citizen (she moved to the UK when she was a kid) but living with me and our three school aged kids who are also citizens. We currently live in the UK. We plan to move to a town near lake Huron to be close to family. The summers are amazing (we've experienced a couple of them first hand) and winters harsh!

I still have doubts over a few things compared to the UK, and would like to gauge opinions.

1) My kids futures - we would be living in a small town, great for me and my wife but not so much for teenagers and young adults...they would need to move out to a city to study and work. Looking at house prices, they would have no chance of buying a property. Is this a fair assumption by looking at the house market?

2) Annual leave - I have about 40 days annual leave in my current job. I hear Canadians only get 15 days, right?

3) Pensions - when looking at jobs (I work in cybersecurity) I don't see too much emphasis on a work based pension. I understand how the CPP works, but I'm referring to a private pension. What is the norm re private pensions in Ontario/Canada?

4) Appreciate this is dependent on a number of things but salaries feel on the low side compared to the UK, especially when you factor in the cost of living / housing prices. I work in cybersecurity/tech. If a house is costing circa $1M, you may need a mortgage ten times your salary, it feels skewed!

Any thoughts? What do you see as the plus points?

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Living in a small town near lake Huron it seems unlikely to me that houses are $1M and up but what do I know. House prices are on the up in Alberta but appear to have leveled in Ontario and BC. Do your kids have any chance of buying a house in the UK? A decent, presumably similarly located, house in the UK would be around £600k (compared to the $1M in Canada) and what UK salary might you expect to afford that on?
40 days annual leave - wow! As an employee you're unlikely to get anywhere near that. The norm for new hires is usually 15 days but might be able to secure 20 days and probably get more as length of service increases.
Employers make matching contributions to your RRSP (pension plan) up to certain limits.
Can't speak to current salaries but mine (mech. engineering in aerospace) in Canada was higher than my peers in the UK but now retired a few years - whoohoo!
We were just back in the UK (south West England) and it was wet, wet, wet) much rather be here in colder but brighter weather and where summers are actually hot for more than a day at a time.

Good luck.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

CPP and OAS are not great amounts, it is based on how long you have lived in Canada and contributing to CPP. OAS is percentage years in Canada out of 40.
Some employers make matching contributions to your RRSP, not all.
RRSPs have limits set on previous year income.
For a decent pension you have to save it yourself, figure how much you need and how long you might have before dropping off the perch.
Also in retirement, if you or spouse need care home or a retirement home and costs associated with such is on you. You would not want to end up in a government geriatric ward.
Owning a house plus retiring on equivalent today of around $2m in the bank.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

When employers advertise leave as being 15 or 20 days, does this include public holidays? If so how many public holidays are there?

I mean, the weather over here is one of our main drivers, it's so dull and wet. Everything over there is so much brighter.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

I get about 25 days holiday a year plus we all get a few extra days at Christmas. But that amount has been accumulated over years working for the company; I think I started out at fifteen or twenty.

It is often negotiable though.

There's also a public holiday most months. Maybe ten days a year?

I get 5% on top of my salary paid into the RRSP, and used to get a free phone but they stopped paying for it this year.

House prices to salaries are high here out in the Prairies so I'd hate to think what it's like in Ontario these days. When I moved here I basically took home the same amount after tax as I did in the UK but I don't know how it compares today.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Thanks, so to clarify, the 10 days public holidays are over and above your annual leave entitlement?

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Re: Pros and Cons
 

When it comes to pensions/investments in Canada, I never found Canada lacking compared to the UK. Apart from the usual RRSPs, etc, the banks have some excellent online brokerage accounts if you want to invest yourself and many other financial products for pensions. Have a look at this site, it will at least give you a good starting point.

When it comes to capital gains, the UK is down to a miserly £3000 annual allowance but Canada will allow you 50% of your gains tax free up to a certain point.

https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca

Re: Pros and Cons
 

This is an old school thread - vacation and pensions! Haven't responded to on for a while, so let me add to the others who have responded:

• Most private employers don't have final salary pension schemes anymore - same is true in the UK. What they do offer is a Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) which generally the employer contributes a percentage to match the employees contribution to a set limit. As an example the employee might put in 5% and the employer would match 5%. RRSP contributions are tax deductible but the amount you can contribute in a year is dependent upon your earnings the previous year. This is likely only to be a problem in the first couple of years of employment as you can carry forward contribution room and eventually build up far more than you are likely to be able to contribute. RRSP funds are generally invested in mutual funds. So it's a sort of equivalent of a defined contribution scheme in the UK.
• Canadian vacation allowance typically starts at 15 days (3 weeks) plus Statutory Holidays. Google "Stat holidays + province of your choice" to get the number of stat holidays. Vacation allowance usually increases with length of service but can be negotiated if you are a particularly sought after or senior employee. Negotiate on vacation along with salary if you can.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Yes, they're like bank holidays in the UK. I don't remember exactly how many there are but there's one day most months.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Public holidays vary per province. Here is the list for Ontario, for example (which only has 9)

https://www.ontario.ca/document/your...ublic-holidays

whereas BC has 11

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/e...utory-holidays

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Leave varies by employer, and I am not sure what you're looking at for "cybersecurity" jobs, but you may find that leave entitlement at the employers you maybe applying to and/or the roles on offer, have more leave than the typical 15 days and/or more leave is granted based on length of service or seniority (mgrs may get more).

I work in the US, where there is a similar leave entitlement to Canada, or even worse, for some jobs but there are employers and sectors where annual leave is far higher than typical - obviously most government jobs, but also tech sector, professional services, and financial services tend to offer more.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Basic vacation time under employment standards is 2 weeks (10 days) after 12 months of employment and 3 weeks (15 days) after 5 years, plus statutory holidays (9 days in ON). Not every employee is entitled to stat holidays, some industries have special rules.
Anything above this is up to the employer and or negotiation with the employer.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

With 40 days' paid vacation, you could spend the entire summer school holidays in Canada and when you get back you'd still have left over 2/3 of a typical Canadian's entire annual vacation allowance.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Strangely, we discussing this very thing last night!

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I've still not made up my mind but this thread is helpful. It looks like I'll get 15 days + 9 public holidays, which I'll try and negotiate up to 20 (if we move).

Probably one for a new thread, but I've been reading about immigration issues (particularly due to the influx of folk from the same country - and the lack of integration) and that unemployment has risen significantly due to immigration and a faltering economy. So there's a lot to consider.

So much to consider!

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Yes there are issues here for sure. The cost of living, poor job market, etc.

I'd start by looking at available jobs - IT security is in huge demand, but probably not on Lake Huron - you're probably looking at the Golden Horseshoe area around the Greater Toronto Area. Ottawa will be somewhat more difficult unless you speak French to a high standard, then it's a different story. It may be worth exploring some of the higher-employment corridors in Ontario and seeing if you feel you could live there. Lots of people fall in love with Cornwall/the Scottish Highlands and Islands but nobody should expect the range of career options that they would min central London/the M4 corridor, etc. The trade-off might be 3 weeks holiday living in a "nice" but not spectacular place the GTA, with difficulty getting out and enjoying what's available vs. staying in England, earning Sterling, good job security and visiting for extended periods. It wouldn't be an easy decision for me and a lot would depend on children's ages, etc.

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing plenty of research and going in with open eyes, so best of luck to you!

Re: Pros and Cons
 

(1) It's no different to the UK in that the property market is tough for young people and more are living with their parents into their mid/late 20s and even their 30s.
(2) It depends on the employer but annual leave could be as low as 10 days initially - at least for the first year. Public (bank) holidays are extra.
(3) Private pensions - see RRSP
(4) UK salaries are actually usually lower than Canadian salaries - 20% lower based on 2021 figures. A typical 4 bedroom detached house in a small town near Lake Huron could be up to about $750k-$800k.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

I was researching how I could transfer my UK state pension and my private pension (DC) pot.

Disappointingly, the UK state pension will not increase by inflation (at the time I start receiving it - aged 68) if I move to Canada. This is a bit of a bummer! But I suppose I'll start adding to the CPP if I move which negates this a little.

Also, does anyone have any idea if I can still withdraw 25% of my DC pension tax free? This is a big benefit in the UK.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Re: Pros and Cons
 

I transferred my private pension to a Canadian RRSP years ago but I believe the British government stopped that because Canadian banks couldn't comply with all the restrictions they put on pension transfers (e.g. no withdrawal before 55).

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Hi! I have lived in this area, now a bit more south along the st Clair river. The Sarnia area is on the southern point of Lake Huron and is full of high wage earners with the oil and gas and petrochemical industries. Great place to start looking for cyber security jobs. This industry will also allow for work experience when determining vacation. They also get happy Fridays (generally a Friday off every 3 weeks with some variations between employers). 10-12 stat holidays/yr. Housing is not terrible compared to larger centres. The more south you go, the better the weather (it’s called the banana belt of Canada). Sarnia has a local college, otherwise UWO is an hour away in London, Windsor uni is about 1.5 - 2 hrs. Alternatively, further north along Lake Huron is the Bruce nuclear hydro plant that is also likely to hire cyber security. Another high wage employer. It’s located in tiverton. This area is more remote, especially in winter.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

I think that "strong social safety net" is questionable at best.

There are large numbers of people living in tents in all the major Canadian cities. Given the climate, I think we may assume that these people have no choice.

I have a disabled child, born in Canada, who now lives in Europe. This is because, in Europe, disabled people are ultimately the responsibility of the state whereas, in Canada, they are the responsibility of their families. I am not able to generate enough cash to support someone living in care for their natural lifespan so Europe is the better choice.

As immigrants, we should be able to outcompete the existing population and, indeed, the people in encampments are almost exclusively cradle Canadians. People who come should do so on the basis that benefits will not be available to them.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

It was AI nonsense from a spammer DBD - now banned but should be ignored completely!

Re: Pros and Cons
 

Oh, well I'm bored at work, nothing lost.

Re: Pros and Cons
 

The legal amount of paid vacation is 10 days or 4% of salary paid out each pay check raising to 15 days after 5 years or 6% on paycheck. (In Alberta anyway).