Property tax/values
 

Home owners in Moncton and possibly the rest of NB have been repeatedly stung with huge property tax increases in the last few years.

The City rakes in increased revenue because of increased valuations. When it happens, I keep reading that other provinces actually put the tax rate down so that the increases are not massive. I also hear some allow regular payments instead of having to find the whole amount up front.

I wonder how true this is.

When we bought our house, the property tax bill was $1400. The next year saw it rise to $1700 and then $1900 odd - 21% and 12% increases.

Another 10% is expected this year before any increase in the actual tax rate makes it more.

We also have a duplex. Property taxes are doubled in NB if you're not resident. I've also read this is not the case everywhere. Is that true?

Does anyone have any experience of appealing against property valuations?

Re: Property tax/values
 

In BC, the assessed values are at least 10% below market values. It means there is very little point in appealing a valuation unless the are some very unusual circumstances as to why your home should be different.

As long as the valuations are consistent it doesn't matter. The city sets its budget. The assessed value of the house doesn't affect the amount of tax you have to pay. If the city increases its budget you pay more, if it reduces it you pay less. The only affect of the assessed value is if your property changes relative to others in the city.

Re: Property tax/values
 

No experience with appeals but in Calgary you can arrange with the city to pay your taxes monthly though direct deposit.

As for assessments going up an taxes going down that is supposed to happen to us this year.

According to a recent newspaper article our neighbourhood is one of the few in Calgary were our assessment has gone up, but less than other other neighborhoods so apparently we can expect up to a 10% reduction in our city taxes.

We'll see if that comes true or not. Most certainly in the past our taxes have definitely increased percentage wise at a much lower rate then our assessments.

Cheers
Steve

Re: Property tax/values
 

In Medicine Hat, Alberta, I pay $246 a month for the property I purchased 2 years ago whilst waiting for my aplication to processs.

It makes no difference whether I am a resident or not and despite the huge increases in property value, my taxes actually decreased this year!!!

Re: Property tax/values
 

Assesments here generally lag "real" values, but if a comparable house in the neighbourhood sells it will have an efect on the assesed value of others nearby. Second properties, unoccupied or investment properties have higher tax rates I believe.

Typically there will be a big jump in the first year of ownership as you have effectively reset the market value..this is more obvious in a neighbourhood where there are not many sales occuring as there is unlikely to have been an accurate reset of the value recently. My tax assesment jumped from $80k to $106 when we bought at that value, then it stayed there a couple of years until a nearby house sold at which point it jumped to $116k. Since then its crept up to $120k, but we wouldnt sell for any less than $150k so its certainly assessed under market value...makes sense for MPAC to try and avoid a lot of appeals.

We can pay quarterly rather than annually, but in effect as its paid by the mortgage company its just a monthly addition to the mortgage for us anyway.

I am not aware of any balancing of tax% vs assessed values to prevent large increases in this area.

Friends of ours have sucessfully appealed their valuation a couple of times now. Its a bit farcical as they win, and then MPAC hit them for the same stupid original over valuation the next year and they end up having to pay for the appeal which they win again etc etc. very tiresome. As far as I racall their appeals are based on knowing the value and nature of local property transactions on similar size properties, and knowing what sort of state the house was in, whether there were recent upgrades or if renovations were required etc etc. All a major pain in the posterior Im afraid.

Re: Property tax/values
 

In NB the assessed value is also about 10% less. That doesn't make it okay though...that just means that at one moment in time the City based its budget on valuations and then raised the tax rate accordingly (without updating valuations). Now they get a windfall because the valauations increase and give them more revenue without the politicians coming across as the bad guys for putting the rate up.

The City is raising increased revenue from owners NOT because of need but because of the new valuations. This is apparently why other places lower the tax rate...so that people don't have 20%-25% increases and they can still meet their budget needs from the increased revenue.

As for appeals, there is at least anecdotal evidence that values are simply increased by an average figure across the board when some properties will, in reality, have increased at a different rate to others.

Maybe things are different where you are. That's what I'm asking. An increased valuation most certainly DOES result in an increased tax bill. There is a 'tax rate' set by the City which is multiplied by the home valuation. If that valuation goes up, the bill goes up.

What we are hearing in NB is that elsewhere the authority can set its budget, knows that it will get additional revenue to meet its needs from the increased valuations and, so, may be able to lower the tax rate. That's not happening here.

There are big increases in the actual bills regardless of the tax rate going up or staying the same. They don't put it down.

Re: Property tax/values
 

Years and years ago my husband successfully appealed our property taxes in Calgary. He lost the first appeal, but then he appealed the appeal, and won the second time around.

The basis of his appeal was that our property taxes were unfair, relative to the other properties in our neighbourhood. That was the basis on which he won.

He invested a lot of time in the appeal. He prepared a detailed statistical analysis that he submitted to the tribunal.

The City of Calgary played hard ball. Before the second appeal, while my husband was at work and I was at home, an inspector came to our house and said he wanted to inspect it. In a roundabout way, and choosing his words very carefully, he implied that if my husband dropped his appeal, he (the inspector) would not inspect our house.

I surmised that the City was hoping to catch us with our pants down -- with basement development that hadn't been declared and inspected, or something like that.

I don't enjoy confrontations, but I stood my ground. The City guy inspected our house and, try as he might, wasn't able to find anything untoward.

My husband went ahead with the appeal of the appeal, and won. But, once he'd won, the lower valuation stuck. Unlike the case that iaink mentioned, the City didn't come back and ding us for more the following year or anything like that.

Appealing the basis on which property taxes are levied throughout an entire city would be another matter entirely.

In Calgary property taxes are the same, regardless of whether you live in a residence or rent it out.

Re: Property tax/values
 

Maybe they just need to spend more on snow clearance and this is a good way to raise the overall income?

Generally appeals are based on a particular property being over-assesed relative to its peers, rather than just grumbling that the municipality is gouging. If the municipality is running a surplus, then maybe they are getting more income than they planned on, but if they are breaking even or running at a deficit then you cant really argue that?

Have there been any February council "fact finding trips" to the Caribbean that would suggest some mismanagement:sneaky:

Re: Property tax/values
 

Thanks for those replies. They do confirm what we hear:

That tax rates may go down elsewhere (not in NB).

That NB charges double for properties not occupied as the home while others may charge the same, or more, but not double.

That one doesn't have to fork out huge sums in one go everywhere like we do in NB.

That valuations are seen as an easy way to raise revenue.

Thank you, Judy, for that info.

I would not appeal just to get a lower bill. But when you read Real Estate info that - just as an example - says market values of Executive Homes have increased by 12% while others have increased by 7% and then you find that the valuation of your modest home increased by 10% and so did everyone else who writes to the newspaper....well it kind of looks like they just slapped 10% onto everything.

The two previous winters we had very little snow by NB standards. A good excuse now, perhaps, but not then.

Not sure about the Caribbean, but they just had big increases in expenses allowances.

Re: Property tax/values
 

In BC, home owners can claim the 'home owners grant' on the property that they reside in but not for properties they do not live in. IOW, I claim the home owners tax for my condo that I live in, I pay the full fat tax for the house that I rent out.

People who are over 65, veterans, disabled and/or receiving disability payments can also claim an additional grant.

As an example: here are last years taxes for my condo, rounded.

full fat - $2200
with home owners grant - $1600
with the additional - $1400

Re: Property tax/values
 

Regardless of local rates and valuation levels it seems to me that most people are paying around about that $2k a year level give or take a bit?

Am I mistaken?

Re: Property tax/values
 

Similar to the bill for our home, yes. Which we bought for under $120k. NB prices are low.

The duplex was bought for under $100k and the property tax bill is $3k.

Re: Property tax/values
 

The property tax on the exe's house is about $800/month for ten months of the year so, no, not me on that one. The taxes on our place are are $660 four times a year. She gets garbage pick up which we don't but we get the street ploughed which she doesn't.

Re: Property tax/values
 

8k a year! Holy $hit!

My appealing friend is in a high end house (for around here) and is paying about $5k a year. Is your exes house particularly pricey or is that typical of that bit of the GTA?

Re: Property tax/values
 

I don't know what the neighbours pay. It's not a very impressive house, especially not by the standards of the area (maybe worth $700-$750,000 in an area where new houses are millions), so I guess most people pay a fair bit more.