Programming jobs in Canada
 

Hi,

I'm a Java programmer with 5 years experience - two and a half of those in banking (where I'm currently working) and looking to emmigrate to Canada.

How is the market for Java programmers - where are the majority of the jobs (both non banking and banking). Are there jobs available in all the big cities?

And what sort of salary can I hope to get for a good programmer both inside and outside of banking, does it differ much by city (I'm earning 50,000 pounds now basic salary)

Obviously I realise now is a bad time but before the recession was it hard to find work - I remember at University there were lots of Chinese students telling me what its exteremely hard to get work in IT in Canada, even with Masters and PHD's

I think Vancoouver may be better for me - looking for somewhere not too cold in Winter. How are the IT opportunities in Vancouver, and throughout Canada (Torronto etc)

How do you rate Vancouver vs Torronto and which has better property prices compared to wages?

And could I realistically apply for a job now from England on the internet (without any visa etc) and get accepted and sponsored for a visa without having lived in Canada first, or will I have to go through the whole immigration process first, then go to Canada and find work locally ?

Thanks for the help

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Might be worth having a look on www.monster.ca or similar job sites to give you an idea of wages, although I'm sure people will be along to help you later today when they have woken up and seen this.

As for applying for a job on the internet, that's not really a good way to find a job in Canada - have a read of the Job Hunting section of the Wiki to find out why, it's a very different hiring culture. And you can't 'go through the whole immigration process first' as unfortunately you wouldn't qualify as a Skilled Worker, so you'll need to find a job offer first in order to be able to get a visa. But have a read of the Wiki article I gave you in your other thread and that will give you more info on how you'll need to get a visa.

Good luck. :)

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Not sure on the situation in Toronto but lots of people on here advise looking there as it has a far larger IT industry.

I am a CRM consultant which is a fairly small but exclusive market jobs wise. Looking at Monster as Christmas says I see very little for me in CRM. However for yourself I see lots of Java and Web based jobs in Vancouver.

Give it a try, although as has already been mentioned, I got nothing really from monster. I haven't got a job yet (I fly tomorrow) but the two interested parties that I am going to see have both come about through personal contacts and not job sites.


Good luck

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

The Vancouver market seems okay. I was looking over Christmas and pickings then were sparse but appear to be looking up now.

There are financial Java jobs in Vancouver. There's a central provider of credit union services that does a lot of stuff. I've got a contact there that might be able to help you with more information.

There's also at least one finance company here looking for quants. They have a recruitment company always on the look out.

In general, good senior/intermediate Java devs can send me a PM as my company is always looking for good people.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

I should add: you may find more financial jobs in Toronto as that's where the major banks and insurance companies are.

However, it's cold there.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

There will definitely be more city type development jobs in Toronto - and they will probably be better paid too. Not sure exactly but I think most developers in Vancouver earn between 50k and 80k, those earning over 100k will be in the minority.

(I work for a financial company in Vancouver and I can say that we are not hiring developers atm)

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

I recently changed jobs (in IT). I suppose the trick is to get an interview. The job I ended up with, as luck would have it, was via applying thought the corporate web site and getting a call for an interview.

In the process of looking though, the other job that looked promising was one that I basically asked for an interview for. I had made contact with the companies corporate recruiter, had talked to him off and on for at least 6 months. Then when a position came available I explained to him in person why I should be interviewed. He called back a couple of days later to let me know he had set up an interview with the person that was hiring. Best interview I ever did.

In the end I took the other job but it certainly helps to take a different approach than just applying via the web.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

The company I work for in Vancouver has quite a few java developers and I'm sure they aren't making even close to $100K. It is quite competitive. A number of colleagues have computer science degrees with java skills and work in customer support. Vancouver just doesn't have a lot of big employers. You might want to look at gaming companies and online gambling companies of which there are a few here. Toronto has more of a banking sector. You will be at a disadvantage if you do not have a comp. sci. degree but it sounds like you have one.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

From what I read of BC in this forum this comes as no suprise - it doesn't see like a hive of software dev activity. Although I would ask you here - do your colleages have java experience as well as skills? I too know of plenty of people working on the help desk where I work with IT degrees but haven't progressed anywhere.

If you are a developer with a finance background I would have thought Toronto the much better option.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

No they probably don't have programming experience.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

There do seem to be some developer jobs out there, but the market is far from bouyant.

If you're looking to escape a country with a screwed IT job market, Canada is probably not the best place to look.

Two things to be aware of:
1) Employers always post jobs with multiple agencies, so the market looks far rosier than it really is.
2) Canadian employers very seldom hire the "best fit" IT candidate - they will hang on forever for the ideal candidate.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Any tips to find away around this (other than being the ideal candidate)?

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Haven't figured a way round that yet - that's why I'm now in my 3rd month of being workless.

Before you ask ... 19 years experience of IT network & infrastructure and I've already been here 8 years, so I have a lot of contacts ... none of that has made any difference in the last three months.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Hw did you find getting work in the previous eight years? Have you always been west in this period?

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Did the maths on this yesterday ...

In my eleven years in the UK - four as a full timer, seven as a contractor, I was never out of work.

In eight years here, I've got 3 or 4 out of work periods that are just short of a year - five months to find a job when I first landed and dealing with a couple of lay offs since.

I remember comparing notes last year with a technical architect who moved here from Ontario - he had the same story - nothing to do with being an immigrant, just a feature of the job market here.

Spoke to a guy two weeks ago who finally gave up contracting when he'd been out of work for 8 months.

I still remember the day when I realised that the UK has double the population of Canada all squeezed into a space half the size of Alberta - with most of them living south of Red Deer - less people means less opportunity.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Sorry ... yes I've always been in the west.

Although with one job, I travelled so much I didn't see downtown Calgary for two years.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

I thought you started off in the GTA before heading west?

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

By way of contrast, I've been contracting, mostly in Canada, since 1985, I've always had one or more contracts on the go. I know a fair number of contractors who have been working steadily for as long.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Developers get it easier - there seems to be a more stable market.

Infrastructure is more seasonal by nature - it's either glut or famine.

Businesses can live with crappy desktops and email systems, but they're pretty much screwed if their CRM or stock management system goes down. :ohmy:

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Just resurrecting this thread so as to keep any useful replies in one place for future searchers....

I've been trawling lots of job sites in the last few days, but I'm notice most of the jobs are for large consultancies who seem to double as staffing agencies. Do the smaller IT companies only advertise locally and not on the net, or is it just that there aren't many smaller companies doing IT work in Canada?

Personally I'd prefer to apply directly to a company with say 30-50 employees than shoehorn my resume into some online application process (that messes up the formatting of the resume by converting it to .txt or disallowing addresses outside Canada).


Also am I thinking that as a programmer all I need is a job offer, and that I could get TWP at POE, and there's no sponsorship required by the employer per se?

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Craigslist seems to be the most popular. Some companies are certainly still looking for good staff and the market appears to be picking up more lately.

If your job description fits within the definition that CBSA uses then yes a job offer gets you a TWP at the port of entry without an LMO without further paperwork.

Please don't use the word sponsorship with regard to what employers do. There's not financial commitment from them unlike when a PR or citizen sponsors a spouse or other family member.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

Thanks ESarge, I've looked at Craigslist, but no dice so far - will keep looking though. My previous job descriptions fit one of two codes that are LMO exempt, and the only reason I say sponsorship is because that is exactly what was said on a knockback email I received the other day, which puzzled me because I thought offering a job to someone requiring a TWP but who was LMO exempt was not substantially more work for an employer than employing a local.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

It's not much more work. But I think a lot of companies are scared by what it might entail without actually understanding it.

I think the word sponsorship is scary to employers; which is why I suggest not using it.

Re: Programming jobs in Canada
 

I came via the IT worker LMO waiver scheme and I think that it is still in place, but it is a scary process since it up to the immigration officer at the POE whether or not they let you in. First time no problem, second time an hour of hell because the officer didn't know about the scheme. Current economic climate doesn't help. If you do arrive at POE with a job offer, make sure that you have have as much evidence as possible to support you experience that makes you better than a Canadian for the job, CV, certificates, etc.