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Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Old Dec 11th 2013, 4:47 am
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Default Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Hello every one,
I am new to this forum and have found it quite useful.i have read all 5 pages in this thread and am really impressed with some of the members who are very patiently answering questions since March 2012.
My question is slightly different. I looked in to working in Ontario and started the procedure. Now I have a job offer and have got confused whether I should make the move.
For those who have relocated, are you happy with your decision.
Are FPs paid more for the same amount of work than GPs.
Is work load less or only different to the UK
for those who have children,are your children happy and settled in their schools?
Thanks you all for your input. It makes us feel we are not alone.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 5:40 am
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario in healthcare. Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Gifted View Post
Hello every one,
I am new to this forum and have found it quite useful.i have read all 5 pages in this thread and am really impressed with some of the members who are very patiently answering questions since March 2012.
My question is slightly different. I looked in to working in Ontario and started the procedure. Now I have a job offer and have got confused whether I should make the move.
For those who have relocated, are you happy with your decision.
Are FPs paid more for the same amount of work than GPs.
Is work load less or only different to the UK
for those who have children,are your children happy and settled in their schools?
Thanks you all for your input. It makes us feel we are not alone.
Gifted.
Hello and welcome to BE!

I have moved your post to a thread of it's own - it's always better to start your own thread, that way you get answers to your questions rather than another posters.

I am not sure if you are a GP / Family Practitioner or not, so if you need the title to the thread changed to reflect this please let me know.

There are a few threads on BE about GP's relocating, I believe there is another GP who is moving to Ontario (North) who may be able to offer advice as well.

Exciting (if scary) times for you!

How far along are you in the process? Do you need the job offer to apply for PR? Where in Ontario (generally, not specific if you don't wish to) is the job located - that information will help people to tell you what the area is like and how family friendly/relocation friendly it is.

I am sure that you will get some useful advice so feel free to post any questions you might have.

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Old Dec 11th 2013, 6:29 am
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario in healthcare. Advice needed please!

Thank you for making this a new thread. Yes I am a GP and have a job offer in the GTA area. I am quite far ahead with my application I.e have had my documents source verified and have had contact with the CFPC. All that I have to do is to accept the job offer and the work permit application will be submitted.
This is where I am panicking..should I accept the offer and leave my colleagues (who are a great support to me).... I need to be sure that taking this big step is worth it....I might sound stupid of why asking this question in the last stages, but the final step is sometimes the most difficult[/QUOTE]
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 8:11 am
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario in healthcare. Advice needed please!

Hi Gifted,

I'm the wife of a GP moving to the north of Toronto (two hrs) in January. We have two children and it is a leap of faith to make the move. Like yourself, the decision to leave supportive colleagues/partners for my husband has been a hard one, made worse by the severe lack of suitable candidates to fill his position. We really feel like we're leaving them in the lurch. However, they continue to be fully supportive of the move, and very appreciative of the reasons my husband wants to move.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was one of your colleagues moving you'd wish them all the best, you wouldn't expect them to stay if they felt they had a chance at a better life elsewhere, and perhaps feel a little disgruntled that you should have done something like that. This is the crux of it, we really do feel this will be a better move in many different ways. Whether it will be good in terms of his working life remains to be seen, but right now he feels like it couldn't be much worse.

There are a couple of other doctors making the move soon also, and another going through a different process to get here, so you're certainly not the only doctor seeking a different life/work. Feel free to inbox me if you want anymore specific questions answered.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Dear Tirotory,

You have spelt out my concerns and this makes me at ease to know that I am not alone.
I am a part time GP partner here(being a mum of two children), but am actually working seven days a week, working from home to catch up with paper work. My work partners are so helpful but this doesn't reduce the work load.
I just want to make sure that I will have a better work life balance and earning either the same or hopefully more than in the UK.
The more I have got in to it, the more apprehensive I am getting.the billing, fee for service, no salary during annual and study leave,? Lack of colleague support (as we have our own registered patients)....is it all that scary or it's just me getting paranoid.
Hope that will get opinions from GPs who have actually moved and are happy to share their experience..
Thank you and all....
Gifted
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Yep, it's all fee per service in Ontario, basically making you a self-employed contractor, so you wouldn't get things like annual leave etc. You would get paid more than enough to cover a reasonable amount of those though. Your workload depends completely on how many patients you take on, and what hours you intend to be available to them. Bear in mind that you would likely have to pay the clinic you are joining for your space, and support staff. I've not heard of any doctors struggling to do this on the money they earn, although I don't know exactly how much that is.

There seem to be a lot of ways and tricks that doctors use to increase their income too. I had one doc who insisted on repeating tests with normal test results and having me go in to collect the results every 1-2 months until I stopped showing up.

With regard to the lack of colleague support, there are our of hours walk in clinics for those people who need assistance outside your hours, or people just go to the ER, which is full of people with essentially minor ailments any time I've been. The clinic they go to would forward a report to you, as long as the patient gave them permission.

On the subject of schools, you'll probably find people divided. On paper, I believe Canadian schools generally outperform British schools in maths and reading results. It really depends what you're looking for, and for me, there's a lot more to school than that. Friends who have been able to compare the two systems by moving with school age children have been disappointed by what they find here. The main thing that seems to come up is a lack of individual critical thinking here. The children are taught what to think, but not how to think and evaluate the information for themselves. Again, this is from me talking to a couple of friends with that experience, and others may have different views. All in all though, I prefer the UK system, and would choose that for my children if I could. My son's school, and indeed most of the schools around here, don't seem to have much in the way of outside activities, except for a concrete playground, sometimes a bit of grass. There's one high school here that only has a car park, nowhere even for sports and they have to take the kids elsewhere.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 1:58 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Dashie View Post
There's one high school here that only has a car park, nowhere even for sports and they have to take the kids elsewhere.
My childrens' school (in Toronto, at College and Jarvis) had only a car park, for sport they took the TTC bus to the ice rink at Moss Park. I don't think schools in Canada need grass as sport seems to consist only of ice hockey.

I thought of you this morning tirytory (well, the virtual you). A colleague remarked "I'm glad I don't live in Muskoka, they're to get nearly two feet more snow before the weekend". There's six inches or so on the ground now. Arriving in winter will be, er, challenging.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 2:05 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Gifted View Post
Dear Tirotory,

You have spelt out my concerns and this makes me at ease to know that I am not alone.
I am a part time GP partner here(being a mum of two children), but am actually working seven days a week, working from home to catch up with paper work. My work partners are so helpful but this doesn't reduce the work load.
I just want to make sure that I will have a better work life balance and earning either the same or hopefully more than in the UK.
The more I have got in to it, the more apprehensive I am getting.the billing, fee for service, no salary during annual and study leave,? Lack of colleague support (as we have our own registered patients)....is it all that scary or it's just me getting paranoid.
Hope that will get opinions from GPs who have actually moved and are happy to share their experience..
Thank you and all....
Gifted
Tirytory had a really good thread going (very similar doubts to yours) which you might want to have a read of: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=810819

As to income - you may want to read this post I made which references salaries: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...9&postcount=96 - a snippet from it " ... New graduates and physicians without an Ontario fee-for-service billing history are eligible for a guaranteed first year annual baseline income of $174,177.19 inclusive of benefits... "

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Old Dec 11th 2013, 2:11 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
My childrens' school (in Toronto, at College and Jarvis) had only a car park, for sport they took the TTC bus to the ice rink at Moss Park. I don't think schools in Canada need grass as sport seems to consist only of ice hockey.

I thought of you this morning tirytory (well, the virtual you). A colleague remarked "I'm glad I don't live in Muskoka, they're to get nearly two feet more snow before the weekend". There's six inches or so on the ground now. Arriving in winter will be, er, challenging.
Thats perhaps a very Toronto centric view point, and of course ignores the Toronto mayors love of coaching his high school football (handball?) team.

My kids school is a tiny dot in the middle of acres and acres of playing fields, so naturally there is no one size fits all answer...

Naturally in the winter the focus is more on basketball and volleyball, although one teen I know has recently taken up biathalon!
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I thought of you this morning tirytory (well, the virtual you). A colleague remarked "I'm glad I don't live in Muskoka, they're to get nearly two feet more snow before the weekend". There's six inches or so on the ground now. Arriving in winter will be, er, challenging.
Ha ha too true. Bit worried about the driving aspect. But the child in me is delighted at the moment, and I'm keeping a geeky big brother eye on the webcams of Bracebridge on snow watch.....I surely have other things to do!!. The school secretary has just sent me pics of her snowy back garden, she's like my nbf she's been so helpful and nice!

Siouxie is ever helpful and pointed out my thread where I fully vented my fears. I am pleased to say though for the time being I've had no further doubts and I'm sure we've made the right decision to go. I'd go as far to say I'm terribly excited. Obviously we don't know how the work thing will pan out, so maybe you will get some doctors answer you, give us a few months and probably we'll know a little more.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 3:39 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
Bit worried about the driving aspect.
I wouldn't be. We're south of there but living rurally in a reasonably snowy area and whiz along fine in a Beetle. VWs seem to be the commuting vehicle of choice, presumably because they come in diesel versions. The worst problem is visibility, if it's snowing and dark you can't see where you're going, but that's the same as fog which you'll have experienced.

What I would be concerned about is the clearance aspect. Initially I'd be tempted to move to an apartment or townhouse complex. Failing that, a house with no driveway.

Last edited by dbd33; Dec 11th 2013 at 3:42 pm.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Hopefully a pic will attach. Hwy 11 apparently today! I'm not worried
Attached Thumbnails Potential move to Ontario (GP).  Advice needed please!-image.jpg  
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 4:05 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
What I would be concerned about is the clearance aspect. Initially I'd be tempted to move to an apartment or townhouse complex. Failing that, a house with no driveway.
We've rented a house, wasn't a huge amount of choice, and the husband went to see when he was out there. It comes with snow clearing as part of the rental although when remains to be seen.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario (GP). Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
Hopefully a pic will attach. Hwy 11 apparently today! I'm not worried
It was like that for us this morning and it's snowed continuously since so I'm anticipated some driving by braille. A couple of techniques I use when I can't see forward are to put two wheels in the gravel and use the sound/feel of that or, if the ditch is too fearsome, use the telephone posts along the road, driving parallel to the line of them.

I do wish people would use lights on their vehicles in these conditions, I very nearly ran into the back of a trailer full of hay last week; it was unlit and going at 5mph.
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Old Dec 11th 2013, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: Potential move to Ontario in healthcare. Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by Gifted View Post
Thank you for making this a new thread. Yes I am a GP and have a job offer in the GTA area.


When you arrive and get set up let me know where your office is. My family doctor (a great old Scots guy) is semi-retired and won't be working much longer so I will be looking for a new doctor. If you are near enough you might be a good choice!
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