Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

Hi,

My husband has been asked to apply for a job in Toronto by the Canadian company he works for now in the UK. This is the kind of opportunity we have been waiting for for a long time but I am currently three months pregnant with our second and toddler is 17 months old. I have been really unwell with pregnancy sickness and had lots of support from my family recently who live under an hour away. We feel we may be crazy to go ahead and apply as if he gets the job the huge upheaval of emigrating whilst pregnant and with a toddler sound very stressful!

A lingering feeling of what if this opportunity is not repeated? Comes to mind and I don't want to live to regret not going but then again if we did go I would be without family and friends support with a new baby and toddler to look after?

Any advice from those who have done the big move would be much appreciated. Is it unrealistic to do this during this time of our lives? Will we be totally isolated for a while once we arrive? Also, anyone suffer from depression or regret moving children away from family? Or best decision you ever made and why? Supportive and friendly neighbours?

Thank you for any thoughts based on your own experiences of emigrating to Canada. :confused:

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

I emigrated before we had kids. I wouldn't do so in your circumstances. We've had enough drama associated with having two kids to appreciate the nearness and support of the Mrs's family here. (She is Canadian). Being somewhere without that support network would have been very difficult for us.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

Thanks for your input Atlantic Xpat, makes sense, wish we had some family over there.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

My wife and I moved to Toronto but we didn't have kids. We loved our 7 years there and it's still probably my favourite North American city. We did move back to the UK with kids (2yo and 1yo) but we didn't live close to family. So we were still pretty much on our own most of the time but at least we could visit family on weekends.

I honestly would caution you to think long and hard about this. Will your husband's company be helping with housing in the short term? Will they help you find longer term housing as well? Will you need to work to make ends meet? Will you need daycare for the kids? Daycare in Toronto is usually expensive and hard to find.

Whether you end up in a good, family-oriented area with friendly, helpful neighbours is a bit of a gamble. I wouldn't go into this dependent on the help of neighbours. Better to assume that you're on your own and then any help is a bonus. If you feel you can't cope on your own, then this sounds like a bad plan.

Also, you mention depression. Is this something you have suffered with before or are suffering with now? If so, that could be another red flag.

Canada can be a great country to live in. Toronto can be a great city to live in. However, like anywhere else, much depends upon the situation you find yourself in. Only you can decide whether this is the right move for you at this time. If you're having pregnancy issues, issues coping with young children, and rely heavily on the help of others, then this might not be a good move at this time. It might be better to wait until you are physically and mentally more able to deal with the stress of a big move and able to look after two young children on your own.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

your kids are the absolutely best age to move, if u get the ball rolling now, chances are its not gonna happen very quickly, you will have had your 2nd child probably by the time the paperwork is done, Canada is a great country to raise children, my boys were 5 and 7 when we up rooted them, at the time I wondered if we were doing the right thing, but we are all very happy here, I don't have any close friends or family here, everyone I miss is back in the UK, but I have my 3 best friends here, my husband and 2 boys, who have grown up to be amazing young men...IMO you should go for it, you can always go back!!

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

First of all, best of luck with the pregnancy!
We moved here (Ontario) 6 years ago with a 3 and 5 year old. We have since had another one (7mths old) and are planning on heading back to London.
It seems you are very well supported by family there. Unless you have the same network here, you really will miss it, a lot. We love life here but it all pales into insignificance for our desire to be reunited with loved ones.
You should consider the fact that childcare is just as expensive here as it is in the UK, if not more. Food is definitely more pricier and the range of baby foods for some reason is not as good as in the UK - we were there this summer and there was so much much choice compared to the main grocery stores here.
Also, I'm not sure whether it will be the same for you but when we got our PR and moved here, we had to cover the first three months of medical privately as the Ontario medical coverage doesn't kick in for the first three months you are here. I'm sure others will be able to provie comment on this point.
Whatever you decide, best of luck. And as Monique_In_Canada says, you can always go back.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

I totally agree that the younger the kids are, the better they cope with a move. I also agree that Canada is a great place to raise kids. However, everyone's situation is different and there are always other factors to consider (and those factors also differ from person to person).

If the OP still needs support with childcare (or anything else), it might still not be the right time to move even after the 2nd child is born. In fact, the level of support required then might be even higher. She also needs to consider whether she needs to work for financial or other reasons and how she deals with daycare (which can be very expensive and very hard to find in Toronto). It might be better to wait until the kids are a bit older - maybe even early school age (as your kids were when you moved). On the other hand, the opportunity might not arise again with her husband's company. However, anyone who wants to move to Canada badly enough can generally make it happen.

Bottom line is this - when you make a big move like this, you have to be committed to it. You have to be determined to make it work. That means you need to be physically and mentally ready to deal with the stress and the inevitable bumps in the road. Yes, if it doesn't work out, you can always go back - but it makes sense to make the move under optimal circumstances to give yourself the best chance of success.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

The ease of the move for the kids is not really the issue here, absolutely it's a great age for them. But if Mum is not coping without her support network then it's not going to be a happy experience for anyone. Also if it's a company move it can happen quite quickly, we went from first suggestion in April to unpacking in Toronto in August. I absolutely agree with MarylandNed, it totally depends on how you handle it, and your personality type. Some people really thrive on the excitement of something new and others really struggle with loneliness and feelings of isolation. I am lucky I am the first type but many other people are not, and I don't think you can choose which type you are.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

Some really great advice here, thank you. In answer to some of the questions, I am not and have not yet suffered from depression thankfully but just thought with all the hormone changes plus sudden isolation this could be a factor. However, I do tend to cope well with change and can cope well with my toddler on my own and with a part time job but my hyperemesis caused me to call on family for a couple of days last week. I wouldn't be able to rely heavily on family once baby born in UK anyway I guess, as they all have very busy lives too.

From what I have heard it sounds as though it would happen reasonably fast which would mean moving before baby due. Will get my husband to clarify if the position can wait to be started a bit later but I doubt this would be an option.

I am planning on leaving my job in Jan anyway and then after around a year would do teacher cover work part time if we needed to financially. My husbands would be able to support us until that time and maybe for longer depending on unexpected costs. We currently rent here so would be no ties with a chain but also no savings to fall back on. I am thinking he may have to go before Jan but that is just speculation at this point.

A big bonus is that we spent a couple of months in Toronto last year in the autumn/fall with my then 6 month old as husband was training so we know parts of the city reasonably well and the general feel of the place (we fell in love with Second Cup hot chocolate!) We also to visit Blue Mountain at the end of this trip and drove to some nice beaches.

I know my mother and father in law would visit us there as they know and love the area and I would visit home realistically every other year minimum, hopefully every year (costs not an issue as we get free standby flights :)). Would feel guilty about taking my little one away from aunties and grandparents but know that FaceTime will at least mean regular updates and info for all. I am pretty sure my mum and sister would be pretty upset with us but they are very homely people who would never consider such a move.

My brain is definitely saying stay here for now and get support that could be needed in transition from being parents of one to parents of two little ones... but my adventurous side can't help but get excited about the possibilities..! If he does apply we would have to go and do a fact finding trip in the ares I would consider living in.


Just don't want to make a decision we will live to regret either way. Maybe we should just enjoy what we have now and not always want more but I think we just crave change, just whether the reality will live up to the dream and whether the timing is all wrong. :blink:

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

Given you are thinking 'move before birth' - I'd urge you to do some reading on healthcare.

The OHP won't kick in until 90 days after you arrive - so if everything takes a further 3 months, you'd be cutting it very fine if you expected public healthcare to take care of you. Generally you should have insurance to cover the gap.

I was faced with this position with my wife back in December of last year as my company were acquiring one in ON and I was being asked to relocate to assist the new company. We investigated a LOT and came to the conclusion that no insurer would touch my pregnant (then 3 months) wife with a very long bargepole because pregnancy is, effectively, a pre-existing medical condition.

As a result, we set a deadline of having to have started the relocation by the middle of January so that we were in time for the OHP for week 36. This would have still been a risk that there would have been some possible complications in the middle of the term needing funding. The company, faced with an unlimited bill, were uncomfortable with that.

As it happens - the acquisition took a lot longer than expected - past even the due date of the baby. But we were glad we didn't chance it as my wife went into labour in her 36th week with a difficult birth and the baby needed support after.

But now the baby is born, and healthy, and the acquisition is complete we're relocating in a couple of months. The intracompany transfer labour market opinion exemption only took a couple of weeks in August to come through and the temporary work permits for most of my family (except my 2 year old) have already been picked up on scouting visits. We're just dotting Is and crossing Ts now.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

The timing of it might be very important. I think you can get medical insurance that will cover pregnancy for up to 9 weeks before birth after which point if anything happened (god forbid) you would not be covered unless the Ontario Health Plan had kicked in, which could cost a lot of money. You need to be resident in Ontario for 12 weeks, and sign up for it as soon as you get there as I understand. I think the baby and child are covered though as minors.

Vicki.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

Well, your last post sounds a bit more positive. It's good that you've spent some time in and around Toronto already. It's good that you haven't suffered from depression (I have friends who have and it's very difficult to deal with). It's good that family would visit from the UK. It's good that you have access to free standby tickets to the UK.

Moving before the baby is due has its pros and cons. One big advantage is that the baby would be born a Canadian citizen (by birth) and most likely a UK citizen (by descent through you and/or your husband). However, there is a 3 month waiting period for OHIP health coverage. The baby would be covered immediately upon birth in Ontario but what if you have issues before your OHIP coverage kicks in?

So you're a teacher? Obtaining work as a teacher in Ontario is a task by itself. You might want to research that a bit more. I've seen several threads on this forum regarding teaching jobs in Ontario.

I'm not trying to put you off. I love Toronto and I still visit the city several times a year. My wife and I loved our 7 years there. I'd go back in a heartbeat but it's not so easy to uproot my family who are now very settled in the US. The best time to move is when kids are very young but it also has to be right for other reasons.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

the medical insurance issue is a valid question, but one that is not insurmountable. Perhaps it's different for individual insurance; when we moved over 7 years or so ago, my OH was 6 1/2 months pregnant and we pretty much knew we wouldn't be covered under OHIP for antenatal and delivery. My company's insurance policy (I think it was Manulife at the time) covered "OHIP replacement" for incoming expats - from memory hospital fees were direct-billed but consultants' fees were pay-and-claim-back.

ktmumma, I'd suggest you ask your OH to check with the HR dept in the Canadian parent company, and get (in writing) chapter and verse on what is covered for employees both during the first 90 days and thereafter under extended care benefits.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

In our case - the company policy would have covered my wife if she fallen pregnant after I joined the company. But it was treated like a new joiner and didn't have any immigrant type clauses.

It's good to know they are out there.

But yes - really - get chapter and verse on what'll be covered.

Re: Potential move to Ontario...a good idea or recipe for problems?
 

You can apply as soon as you become an Ontario resident but they will also back date your application if you can prove an earlier date. There is a 3 month waiting period from the date of taking up residency in Ontario. The baby would only be exempt from the waiting period if born in Ontario. The other child would not be exempt.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/publi...aiting_pd.aspx