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-   -   Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/postpone-move-canada-power-move-578542/)

halftheworldaway Dec 14th 2008 8:22 pm

Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

JoolsGod Dec 14th 2008 8:26 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.


We are going ahead, have decided to rent our house out for a year or so and see what the market is like then. It's not something we really want to do but we also don't want to put it all on hold. I suppose if it all goes wrong at least we will still have a home here.

KJM Dec 14th 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

I'm going mid Jan, personally i think you should sell your house then consider if it is the right time to go.

K:)

Coffeepot Dec 14th 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

Hi Neilt, we haven't postponed it as such but will like lots not be able to go until the house is sold and only if we get enough money from it.

Sorry to hear your house won't sell, have you tried ?

seanyg Dec 14th 2008 8:28 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
We're trying to forget about it at the moment, to be honest. Not through lack of enthusiasm or change of heart, but for purely financial reasons. Like yourselves, we can't afford to drop the price on our house (it's £20k higher than similar houses in our area and that's where it'll stay till the market picks up!:() so we're hoping our application process takes longer than anticipated. Ironically, we went on the pnp to get there quicker, but now we have our pnp nomination we're delaying submitting our application until the deadline (next April) so, assuming we get our meds done next summer (that's allowing CHC a few months to process our pnp) we'll have to land by summer 2010, go through immigration, maybe have a 2nd recce (having paid all that money for flights), then fly back and return to our UK lives until the housing market over here picks up. :unsure:

Nightmare isn't it? I get so mad when I think about it, :curse: I'm just trying to concentrate on other things at the mo to take my mind off it (like trying to think of baby names!:p).

Anita :thumbup:

G586 Dec 14th 2008 8:29 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

We were relying on money that we had in shares, picked the wrong shares and lost a packet, can't sell our property and won't be in a position to move within timescale for fulfilling residency obligations so we withdrew just as we got med requests.

My OH has a very specialised job so without capital, we were stuffed as there is no equivalent in Canada so we would have needed time/cash to do something else.

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 8:32 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by seanyg (Post 7067055)
We're trying to forget about it at the moment, to be honest. Not through lack of enthusiasm or change of heart, but for purely financial reasons. Like yourselves, we can't afford to drop the price on our house (it's £20k higher than similar houses in our area and that's where it'll stay till the market picks up!:() so we're hoping our application process takes longer than anticipated. Ironically, we went on the pnp to get there quicker, but now we have our pnp nomination we're delaying submitting our application until the deadline (next April) so, assuming we get our meds done next summer (that's allowing CHC a few months to process our pnp) we'll have to land by summer 2010, go through immigration, maybe have a 2nd recce (having paid all that money for flights), then fly back and return to our UK lives until the housing market over here picks up. :unsure:

Nightmare isn't it? I get so mad when I think about it, :curse: I'm just trying to concentrate on other things at the mo to take my mind off it (like trying to think of baby names!:p).

Anita :thumbup:


Hi Anita....tonnes here in the same boat....bloody credit crunch:mad:

We're landing in a few days time...got our PR and then need to come back and sell the house....thought about dropping the price again but to be honest, i don't want to....my house is worth what it's valued at...we shall see how long i can stick being here and not there!!!:rofl:

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 8:33 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067060)
We were relying on money that we had in shares, picked the wrong shares and lost a packet, can't sell our property and won't be in a position to move within timescale for fulfilling residency obligations so we withdrew just as we got med requests.

My OH has a very specialised job so without capital, we were stuffed as there is no equivalent in Canada so we would have needed time/cash to do something else.

Sorry to hear that G586....will you apply again in the future???

Coffeepot Dec 14th 2008 8:36 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067060)
We were relying on money that we had in shares, picked the wrong shares and lost a packet, can't sell our property and won't be in a position to move within timescale for fulfilling residency obligations so we withdrew just as we got med requests.

My OH has a very specialised job so without capital, we were stuffed as there is no equivalent in Canada so we would have needed time/cash to do something else.

So sorry to hear this :( i hope you can do it still one day,

tinytears Dec 14th 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
We are going regardless. The house is on the market, currently £10K less than all the others in the area but we still can't sell. We will rent it out if necessary.

God knows how we are going to cobble the money together. We are taking the minimum so we pay less shipping - so we aren't taking the cabinets or the dining room furniture or kitchen table. We will sell the cars, the few shares we had are virtually worthless now but they will go. We will do without everything when we are there until we can afford to buy new. I hope that whereever we rent has a washing machine, if not I'll be going to my brothers a lot to start off with.

We considered putting it off but both sets of our parents are getting older (one of my inlaws had a very bad fall last week and landed in hospital) and the kids are getting independent and we feel that if we don't go now we will miss our window of opportunity as awful as that may sound.

tinytears Dec 14th 2008 8:43 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067060)
We were relying on money that we had in shares, picked the wrong shares and lost a packet, can't sell our property and won't be in a position to move within timescale for fulfilling residency obligations so we withdrew just as we got med requests.

My OH has a very specialised job so without capital, we were stuffed as there is no equivalent in Canada so we would have needed time/cash to do something else.

What a shame. I hope you find a way to get there eventually.

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 8:45 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7067101)
We are going regardless. The house is on the market, currently £10K less than all the others in the area but we still can't sell. We will rent it out if necessary.

God knows how we are going to cobble the money together. We are taking the minimum so we pay less shipping - so we aren't taking the cabinets or the dining room furniture or kitchen table. We will sell the cars, the few shares we had are virtually worthless now but they will go. We will do without everything when we are there until we can afford to buy new. I hope that whereever we rent has a washing machine, if not I'll be going to my brothers a lot to start off with.

We considered putting it off but both sets of our parents are getting older (one of my inlaws had a very bad fall last week and landed in hospital) and the kids are getting independent and we feel that if we don't go now we will miss our window of opportunity as awful as that may sound.

You have to do whats right for you hun.....Good Luck with your move.:thumbsup:

halftheworldaway Dec 14th 2008 8:46 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by Coffeepot (Post 7067054)
Hi Neilt, we haven't postponed it as such but will like lots not be able to go until the house is sold and only if we get enough money from it.

Sorry to hear your house won't sell, have you tried ?


We haven't tried to sell, but going by similar houses in the area which have been on the market for ages we would struggle to sell.

It's really frustrating as I had a telephone interview with a company at the start of the summer which went well but just couldn't move as quickly enough cos of the downturn in the housing market.:curse:


Sorry to hear of your situation G586, hope it works out in the end.

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 8:49 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067120)
We haven't tried to sell, but going by similar houses in the area which have been on the market for ages we would struggle to sell.

It's really frustrating as I had a telephone interview with a company at the start of the summer which went well but just couldn't move as quickly enough cos of the downturn in the housing market.:curse:


Sorry to hear of your situation G586, hope it works out in the end.

Stick your house on the market after Xmas.....you've nothing to loose:thumbsup: I'm sure you'll get another interview and things could work out for you this time.....Finger crossed and all that:thumbsup:

G77 Dec 14th 2008 8:53 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
Tried to sell our house for about 6 months - couldn't, so ended up renting it out at a loss.... Now the interest rates have dropped, we're now making a small profit, so that has worked out quite well and we got to move here. Hopefully we will be able to sell at some point and we can remain here....

samjr400 Dec 14th 2008 8:56 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
Hi,are very new to this process, but we are just going to go for it. House on the market but we are prepared to except less just to get there etc etc.
Life's to short go for it!

G586 Dec 14th 2008 8:59 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
Thanks for the good wishes, hadn't really advertised that we were unable to go as I still hang out here as much as I ever did. :thumbup:

I tend to believe everything happens for a reason. Got a puppy in the meantime.

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 9:01 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067146)
Thanks for the good wishes, hadn't really advertised that we were unable to go as I still hang out here as much as I ever did. :thumbup:

I tend to believe everything happens for a reason. Got a puppy in the meantime.

Nice one....about the puppy:wub:

Now get your ass in gear and come to Canada with the rest of us:thumbsup:

G586 Dec 14th 2008 9:04 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by FlirtyKnickers (Post 7067155)
Nice one....about the puppy:wub:

Now get your ass in gear and come to Canada with the rest of us:thumbsup:

Time has gone - one thing I did find out that they do send a final reminder!

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 9:18 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067169)
Time has gone - one thing I did find out that they do send a final reminder!

OMG....how cute is he/she:wub: whats his/he name?

Now you know how dogs love the snow...and he/she would love Canada:thumbsup:

G586 Dec 14th 2008 9:22 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by FlirtyKnickers (Post 7067206)
OMG....how cute is he/she:wub: whats his/he name?

Now you know how dogs love the snow...and he/she would love Canada:thumbsup:

She's Pip.

Very lively! She might like the snow but she's not keen on cold!

Coffeepot Dec 14th 2008 9:25 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067169)
Time has gone - one thing I did find out that they do send a final reminder!

She is a real cutie :wub: little snow socks me thinks,

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 9:25 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067215)
She's Pip.

Very lively! She might like the snow but she's not keen on cold!

She's gorgeous....and she looks like a pip;)

adele Dec 14th 2008 9:28 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by G586 (Post 7067146)

I tend to believe everything happens for a reason.

Me too - and good for you for accepting the situation and making the best of things here. If it's meant to be than someday it will be.

I never thought I'd say it a year or two ago when people were making a lot of money out of property, but now I'm so glad I don't have a property to sell. I don't have much money behind me, but then I'm not giving up anything to go so it feels like there's not really anything to lose for me as if I stayed here I'd need to find a home and job anyway. But for those of you who have families, properties and much more at stake I really feel for you.

Best wishes to you all :)

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 9:32 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by adele (Post 7067237)
Me too - and good for you for accepting the situation and making the best of things here. If it's meant to be than someday it will be.

I never thought I'd say it a year or two ago when people were making a lot of money out of property, but now I'm so glad I don't have a property to sell. I don't have much money behind me, but then I'm not giving up anything to go so it feels like there's not really anything to lose for me as if I stayed here I'd need to find a home and job anyway. But for those of you who have families, properties and much more at stake I really feel for you.

Best wishes to you all :)

I see your landing soon too Adele! Good luck with your move and i hope you have a wonderful life in Canada:thumbsup:

adele Dec 14th 2008 9:46 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by FlirtyKnickers (Post 7067245)
I see your landing soon too Adele! Good luck with your move and i hope you have a wonderful life in Canada:thumbsup:

Yes, but not as soon as you! Thanks for the wishes and good luck with the journey and landing! Hope you get everything sorted here soon so that you can make the move over before too long. 5 weeks 2 days til I move for good, not ready yet and with Christmas coming up I'm not exactly making speedy progress!

All the very best with it all and for Christmas and the New Year!

Adele xxx

FlirtyKnickers Dec 14th 2008 9:56 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by adele (Post 7067282)
Yes, but not as soon as you! Thanks for the wishes and good luck with the journey and landing! Hope you get everything sorted here soon so that you can make the move over before too long. 5 weeks 2 days til I move for good, not ready yet and with Christmas coming up I'm not exactly making speedy progress!

All the very best with it all and for Christmas and the New Year!

Adele xxx

Thanks Adele....same to you hun, Merry Christmas and you'll have a fab 2009:thumbsup:

Rainey69 Dec 15th 2008 12:06 am

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by tinytears (Post 7067101)
We are going regardless. The house is on the market, currently £10K less than all the others in the area but we still can't sell. We will rent it out if necessary.

God knows how we are going to cobble the money together. We are taking the minimum so we pay less shipping - so we aren't taking the cabinets or the dining room furniture or kitchen table. We will sell the cars, the few shares we had are virtually worthless now but they will go. We will do without everything when we are there until we can afford to buy new. I hope that whereever we rent has a washing machine, if not I'll be going to my brothers a lot to start off with.

We considered putting it off but both sets of our parents are getting older (one of my inlaws had a very bad fall last week and landed in hospital) and the kids are getting independent and we feel that if we don't go now we will miss our window of opportunity as awful as that may sound.

Well done to you!:thumbsup: That was us just over a year ago, it is def doable and your strength and determination will take you far. I remember arriving with my partner and 2 kids with just 5 suitcases........you can do it!:thumbsup: My best wishes to you...xx:wub: Lorraine

moondevil Dec 15th 2008 12:25 am

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
Tiny tears

Same as rainey said, we landed with 5 suitcases and wow it sounds so hard, but you learn to shop around, look at coupons and find the deals on.
i have 2 free turkeys now for xmas, may save one for when in-laws come over :D

I did a three month thread of being here and although the first few weeks are hard, you can do it.
i would never turn back the clock and do it different, after the house buyers from hell and losing loads on the house sale, would cash make things anymore easier...no i am happy, got good friends around me and love bargains ;)

Although its freezing here at the moment aquick webcam visit back to uk makes you relise why you did it :eek:

Good luck on the move ;)

LadyRayden Dec 15th 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

We're going ahead, a few months late. We had the house on sale for a while, couldn't sell. To trigger a sale, we would have needed to lose a further 20K, which we ruled out. Now we're renting it and keeping it until the market improves. Calculated that in the end we'll need to fork in less money that if we sell it in the current market. We still need to put 50£ a month or so to cover up. Yeah, fiance was one of those with an horrifying high mortgage so this is what happens.

And if it does not work, well, you have a place to come back to, right?

A dream is a dream and you've gotta live it when you can. :)

Plus I can't stay any longer, my visa runs out in the UK in February. 23rd January it is for us!

katiemoon Dec 15th 2008 4:47 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
We're renting out our place (we got offered £100,000 less than the asking price last year :eek: and decided not to bother selling just yet).

The flights are booked for us and the dogs to go out next March :thumbsup:, no jobs or visas yet (had the 60-day letter but no meds yet), but I just want to be in Calgary with all my family (our 2 other grown-up kids meeting up :D )

As others have said - don't dream it - do it!
Good luck, whatever you decide.

KatieMoon :D

minimeeze Dec 15th 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
We are still going. Fortunately we managed to sell our house along with all the furniture to the house buyer from hell at £20k less than we wanted to. The cars are sold, our jobs are quit and we have moved in with the OH's mum. Just waiting for passports to be returned complete with visas now.

It seems that every step of the way there has a been an obstacle (we should have been there in October). The exchange rate is pants but we have waited so long and spent so much money (probably around £10k up to now) for this to happen, that we aren't letting anything stand in our way.

albertabound Dec 15th 2008 5:54 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
We are still going, now much earlier than planned. The house is up fo sale but if it doesnt sell before we go c'est la vie.
We will definitely be on a shoestring then but we will cope.
We were going to take everything but the costs are so high that now we are just taking the minimum. We need ready cash.
OH has a job to go to so he will be earning almost straight away.
Yesterday he said it would be nice to build up our empire again lol.
He works in food retail, everyone has to eat!!

halftheworldaway Dec 15th 2008 6:21 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by albertabound (Post 7069850)
We are still going, now much earlier than planned. The house is up fo sale but if it doesnt sell before we go c'est la vie.
We will definitely be on a shoestring then but we will cope.
We were going to take everything but the costs are so high that now we are just taking the minimum. We need ready cash.
OH has a job to go to so he will be earning almost straight away.
Yesterday he said it would be nice to build up our empire again lol.
He works in food retail, everyone has to eat!!

It's good hear people going ahead with their plans, despite all the doom and gloom the media feeds us.

I was feeling a bit down and fed up with the whole process but hearing other stories has boosted my movitation.

Need to bite the bullet and try and sell the house next year, and get on with moving to Canada

FlirtyKnickers Dec 15th 2008 6:24 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7069935)
It's good hear people going ahead with their plans, despite all the doom and gloom the media feeds us.

I was feeling a bit down and fed up with the whole process but hearing other stories has boosted my movitation.

Need to bite the bullet and try and sell the house next year, and get on with moving to Canada

Thats the spirit;)

albertabound Dec 15th 2008 7:34 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 
Need to bite the bullet and try and sell the house next year, and get on with moving to Canada[/QUOTE]

Good for you. PMA all round
Tina

tinytears Dec 15th 2008 9:33 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by Rainey69 (Post 7067644)
Well done to you!:thumbsup: That was us just over a year ago, it is def doable and your strength and determination will take you far. I remember arriving with my partner and 2 kids with just 5 suitcases........you can do it!:thumbsup: My best wishes to you...xx:wub: Lorraine

Thanks Lorraine, have to say I did wonder if we are bonkers or not but I just figure that if we don't go we will never know! I quite like the thought of rebuilding our little empire as Alberta Bound says above!


Originally Posted by moondevil (Post 7067695)
Tiny tears

Same as rainey said, we landed with 5 suitcases and wow it sounds so hard, but you learn to shop around, look at coupons and find the deals on.
i have 2 free turkeys now for xmas, may save one for when in-laws come over :D

I did a three month thread of being here and although the first few weeks are hard, you can do it.
i would never turn back the clock and do it different, after the house buyers from hell and losing loads on the house sale, would cash make things anymore easier...no i am happy, got good friends around me and love bargains ;)

Although its freezing here at the moment aquick webcam visit back to uk makes you relise why you did it :eek:

Good luck on the move ;)

Wow two free turkeys, that takes some doing! I wish we could find the house buyers from hell but doubt very much we will be able to. One last push to sell the house come January and if not it will go up for rent in the spring.

Sounds like you have a fabulous attitude. I don't think I'll ever miss the UK, will miss the "three f's" family, friends and familiarity but that is all.

Yogi-Bear Dec 15th 2008 10:06 pm

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by neilt (Post 7067031)
I'm interested to find out if anyone has postponed their move to Canada because of the Credit crunch / Recession or are people continuing with the move.

Personally I think I'll have to put it on hold as I doubt I could sell my house at the moment.

You bet we're in the same boat! Well this was our dilema yesterday because of the credit crunch:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=578488

Within the last hour we've had our house purchasers on the phone saying they want another £10k off the price! Bear in mind we've knocked £20k off already and this has been going on since July.

They've now just managed to get a mortgage last week, we're at crunch time - signing contracts and now this!

We've declined their offer, but hoping to call their bluff really hoping they'll go some more.

I'd like to tell them to shuv it where the sun don't shine, but I have to bite my tongue at the moment. At this rate I'll have no tongue left!

So when you ask: "just wondered if anyone else is in the same boat"

We have a boat, it has a hole in it, taking in more water by the day, so I reckon by the end of the week we could be sunk :)

The UK is talking itself into doom and gloom everyday on the news, which is making people really scary about spending.

Even if you did sell your house and had the lump sum fat cheque. where are you going bank it for security? Most banks will only cover up to £50k

This global crunch really is a mess :ohmy:

Still, can it really get any worse? :unsure:

Y

1chumly Dec 16th 2008 5:20 am

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by Yogi-Bear (Post 7070688)
You bet we're in the same boat! Well this was our dilema yesterday because of the credit crunch:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=578488

Within the last hour we've had our house purchasers on the phone saying they want another £10k off the price! Bear in mind we've knocked £20k off already and this has been going on since July.

They've now just managed to get a mortgage last week, we're at crunch time - signing contracts and now this!

We've declined their offer, but hoping to call their bluff really hoping they'll go some more.

I'd like to tell them to shuv it where the sun don't shine, but I have to bite my tongue at the moment. At this rate I'll have no tongue left!

So when you ask: "just wondered if anyone else is in the same boat"

We have a boat, it has a hole in it, taking in more water by the day, so I reckon by the end of the week we could be sunk :)

The UK is talking itself into doom and gloom everyday on the news, which is making people really scary about spending.

Even if you did sell your house and had the lump sum fat cheque. where are you going bank it for security? Most banks will only cover up to £50k

This global crunch really is a mess :ohmy:

Still, can it really get any worse? :unsure:

Y

Sorry to hear they are trying to 'gazunder' you. To me that is nothing short of blackmail. I hope everything works out for you. Let us know what happened after you declined their latest 'offer'.

Yogi-Bear Dec 16th 2008 7:23 am

Re: Postpone move to Canada or power on with the move
 

Originally Posted by 1chumly (Post 7071544)
Sorry to hear they are trying to 'gazunder' you. To me that is nothing short of blackmail. I hope everything works out for you. Let us know what happened after you declined their latest 'offer'.

Hi,

You're right, it is blackmail. But in their eye's, they're trying to bag a bargain and using the global climate, together with our plans for Canada, as a weapon!

The "little devil" that sits on my right shoulder with his fork, is prodding me and saying:

"tell them *******"

but the the angel that sits on the left shoulder, is saying:

"Strike a deal, or you'll have to start all over again"

But the thought of being blackmailed, leaves a very bitter taste! Especially with these pair, as they're the rudest, and most obnoxious pair of individuals you could ever wish to meet.

We'll see..........

Y


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