souls canuck

interesting post with lots of responses. People seem to be quite passionate about this one. I think because we all decide to immigrate for our own reasons.. there is advice and warnings out there ahead of time, but we go off and do it anyway.. the dream of a better life? the adventure.. just for something different. It's a long road to get there.. well, now you are here and you are having second thoughts and want to up and bolt back to where you came from. maybe you should think about why you left in the first place and start weighing the pros and cons. the school thing, I think, is a minor one. your kids can probably take a bagged lunch right? so cook em up something they can microwave.. presto, it's hot! I think I always bought my lunch, and come to think of it.. it was hot.. not sure why they don't do that anymore.. probably some kid burnt his mouth on the pot pie and sued the school.. now they serve only cold. shame..
as for your kids not adjusting.. that will take time.. and they may have been in the same situation in the uk. I saw all kinds of kids that didn't fit it.. I was one of them.. born and raised in toronto. there are things you can do to fix that one. are they enrolled in swimming? scouts? karate? wrestling? rock climbing? get em in to something they like.. they will hook up with friends who, too, are into the same thing.. that will get them thru the day.. dreaming about the nighttime stuff.. then you will see their happy faces and feel better.
as for no culture.. poo on that! toronto is one of the most culturally diverse places I can think of.. pick a culture.. and go visit it in toronto. chinatown, greektown, cabbagetown anyway, you get the idea.. and no money? who cares.. walk around.. it's free.. there are ROM walks all thru the summer and fall, dont cost a cent. Paws in the Park at sunnybrook.. go there, that's fun.. even if you don't have a dog. Haunted walks in the fall for the boys.. take a drive to the Elora Gorge and walk along that.. Toss the frisbee down on the boardwalk.. you have access to the computer. so go on toronto.com and check it out! Mississauga has all kinds of the same things.. maybe a dinner out once a week to a new restaurant.. all these things add up to a new experience.. maybe not always a positive one.. but I think if anyone thinks leaving all that you know and love behind is easy, it ain't.
I moved to Arizona to be with my man. First in my family to leave.. they are all still there.. and we are very close.. but I wanted to try.. to see what else is out there.. I miss them terribly.. and Canada too. I think your heart will always be with your homeland. always.
I was told give it 6 months.. well, I am there now.. and each day the sting is a little less.. some would say sunny Arizona (it's about 65 today is a fair trade for minus 7 Toronto.. but for me it's not about the weather.. it's the people. and they have not mixed with you just yet.. we are different, it's true.. figure out what makes the locals tick and you will find that we are a pretty good lot.. proud to be canadian.. and proud of where our grandparents came from too!! Just check out all the bumper stickers
good luck.

peterb

Your quote on the level of Maths and Science is questionable. My Daughter has just completed her GCSE's and is doing her A levels now. We went to a Canadian school, and found that not only were her maths and science ahead of the year she would have been allocated to, it was already one year above her relevant age group.

In other words, she was the equivalent of upper sixth whilst having only completed her fifth form education in the UK.

We have also spoken with The University of BC in Vancouver and her first year at A level will already be good enough to qualify for the degree requirements in Canada. Furthermore 3 UK A Levels will get you on to almost any degree course in Canada. (Try getting into Oxbridge with less than 4 straight A's).

So before you knock the UK too much, check where you want to live in England, and I think you will find that the education is better than perhaps you recall. (Fair enough you may have to pay for it, but what the hell).

One other point you complain about is the cost of a university education, well guess what? We have it here. There are now tuition fees, and as of the time your kids make it to university, the top ones will be able to charge an extra £3000 per annum on top of the current fee. That is a ceiling, but we all know it will be reached and then pressure will be put on the govt to raise it again. So by the time your kids finish their UK degree they are likely to be paying around £8000 to £10,000 p.a. in fees.

Most kids are already leaving University with a student debt of some £15,000. So beware!

Having said that, we are emigrating to Canada, and have taken in to account the ups and downs, and I would suggest before you return you actually make a few home visits.

The UK is going down the tubes at a fare rate of knots, Canada better be pretty bad for it to be worth your while to return, and if you think your kids are being pushed at school, go for it, surely your experience tells you its a tough world out there, and education still counts.

One final point, and I don't mean to be flippant, why did you not check out the catchment area for the school bus before buying your house? Surely you would do that in the UK, even just to find out which schools take which kids, and how far the bus comes to.

All the best

Peterb

MikeUK

My wife is an ex-Ontario teacher with friends teaching in both the UK and Ontario, and those in both Public and the Catholic system, and its been discussed many times on here, but I believe that the UK at around 16-17 is one year ahead of Ontario on the syllabus comparatively speaking..
At the end of University as a graduate I believe academically then they’re about the same.. for comparable universities

Grah

The message is your not listening to your son and solving his problem.

He likes it,
He doesn't want to move,
He is settled in
So you moved him. He now is different from everyone, he lives in a different area, has different chances of getting out of the house to see friends from school. He's having trouble with the subject matter.

So you are moving him back to the UK, now why does he have to attempt to make friends, you're going to break them AGAIN.

He finds the maths hard.
You caughting bunking off school, or was it a free period?
If it was bunking off what subject? Maths by any chance.

You might have told us only half the story but have you spoke with your son and the School? You maybe surprised to hear that your son isn't might different from many other kids in school.

If you are focused on the best only for your kids why did you move so far from the new school and his new friends?

Baffles me, how you can blame outside factors when its you, your family and your money not making you all happy. What is it going to take?
You left the UK, presumable you weren't thrown out, so was it because a.) you didn't like it or b) you loved the Canadian idea?

At the end of the day screw which country you are in, can you actually sit down and work out what will make you and your family happy in the Short, Medium, and Long term?

Graham.

Your Happiness isn't given to you by others its made by you.

MikeUK

The reality here is that the UK isn't really going down the tubes at a rate of Knots...sorry I was working there from June 2002 to October 2003 and recently visited in November... and further to crush your dream Canada is not doing any better or worse economically educationally or in any other significant factor that’s worth measuring for an immigrant.. they’re both G7 nations with all the pluses and minus that goes with being in the top seven nations of the world..

When a few people get that into there heads we'll have a lots less disappointed people heading home having wasted thousand of pounds…

Go read the 'return to the UK' section to see for yourself… every one believed they were going to a new life and that their new home was going to be sooo much better than the bad Old UK… sooo much better that they’re on their way home, often with bitter memories of what is actually as nice a place as the one they left.

Glaswegian

These facts are quoted frequently. What is often missed is that the UK (unless there have been major changes in the last few years) does not give a tax deduction for tuition fees and student loan interest - Canada does - its transferable (subject to limitations) and the balance can be carried forward indefinitely. Suddenly the GBP10,000 is GBP14,000 of income spent.

The other important issue is that the goverment here has registered saving plans for educational purposes - the goverment tops it up for you with the CESG (subject to certain limitations). I'm not aware of anything like this in the UK.

Put simply, the UK needs to get it together. The reason often given for fees is "every other country does it". Well guess what, many other countries also have a massive amount of support for students- tax deductions, educational grants (CESG), scholarships and bursaries. The only thing the UK seems to have is the fees.

Mrs G

ClosedAccount-xyz

[QUOTE=ladylisa] maybe i'm one of the lucky ones then, i was brought up in army life, where moving to different countries and living there was no big deal..

julius smith

the reality is this--i DID talk to him about his fears and/or pet hates about this place, and at the end of it all, we simply do not fit in here. the reason he was walking around was because he was basically just fed up, what with the extra pressures of an unnecessarily high level of education and making new friends, transport,.....a whole load of things. even if i was to stay another 10 years, the point of the high uni fees, the time taken to qualify, then at the end having a massive debt burden to shift when you do get a job.....thats not going to change, is it? and someone mentioned resp plans for uni fees--well thats fine if your kids are only 2 yrs old or something and they have ages to go till they are uni age. we came here with teenage kids--what good are resp plans to us? and yes, there are similar things in the uk, called school fees plans. look at it this way--my friend qualified in the uk with an hons degree and it cost him around £3000 in total (and thats not in any crappy uni--it was a good established one). compare the same course here in canada, and it costs around $15000 PER YEAR. and then you have the work work work attitudes here; everybody seems to be caught up in spending hours and hours at work, just to please the boss. nobody wants to socialise after work, mainly because they spend so long at work they are shattered at the end of the day! to top it all, you get a whopping 2 weeks holiday! and god hel you if you fall sick--soon as you get back, you are looked at as if you have comitted a murder or something or let the firm down by taking time off! one of my colleagues even came in to work after just 2 days after being diagnosed with pneumonia!! well, there you have it...it was a great experience but not for us. we are going back for a better, more civilised and relaxed lifestyle!

Glaswegian

You're in the wrong place ... staying until 5:30 is working late in Calgary, almost everyone clocks off way before then.

I remember talking to my brother when I'd been here 6 months ... his main comment was on how laid back I sounded.

Calgarians know how to work hard when it's needed and know how to relax the rest of the time ... sounds like all you people over in the east need some lessons in how to enjoy your lee-zure time.

kippa

Thanks for your reply, you have cheered me up no end. i think i must be going through my anxious stage at the moment. I alternate between being scared and being excited.
You said you have 3 horses. I am leaving behind the horse i have on loan here which will be hard coz she is lovely , but i am hopeing to have one when we get settled ( or several if i have my way ) . How much does it cost to have a horse shod and how does the feed varey to what you get in England?
Is hay expensive? Sorry about all the questions but you are the first horsey person i have come across so far.
You also mentioned in one of your replies, wine, you sound like my sort of person.
I am looking forward to it really and i can't wait to try my hand at western riding.

SANDRAPAUL

Wrong. Sorry if you do not like this.

UK. £3,000 per year is the course fees which is coming in as a minimum level, many will be much more when the new charging scheme gets warmed up. Then there are the resident accommodation fees and food and bills towards books etc. The average annual bill is £12,000+. Thats why even now many students in the UK leave with huge debts before starting work.

If the student has parents that are on the poverty line you will then get the Fees discounted - but not accommodation!

There are NO TAX benefits for parents on good incomes in the UK.

Both the Universities we have applied to for our daughter in Canada (both in the top 5) have around $3,000 per year fees. If she was to stay in halls of residence with all the perks that a top Canadian University offered it would add up to the $10,000 - $15,000 per year level. So in effect no difference.

You need to do your homework!

Glaswegian

Always check your facts before posting

SANDRAPAUL

with this kind of slagging of the Canadians I would imagine they have must your bags packed and a taxi waiting in the street to get rid of you.

Not very gracious behaviour from someone in another persons country!

Shame on you.

You should just retreat with dignity and say that you have not found what you wanted.

SANDRAPAUL

What wrong with the numbers?

MikeUK

Just to prove a point....

For what its worth the UK universities have a sliding fee scale ranging form £560 up to £11,840 per year and nearly all of the undergraduate courses cost £1,150 (band A)
Post grad go up to about £3010 (band B)
This is for domestic students overseas student cost is higher.
Detail form Nottingham university course fees 2004-2005

And for what its worth 2005 -2006 undergrad course at £1,175
And post grad courses £3,085