Oh ... Canada ...
 

Unfortunately this is another thread about a frustrating experience in Canada. Make of it as you will.

I am a UK osteopath and was on a work permit in Montreal. I went to Montreal thinking that this was a huge gamble, but the clinic I worked with and the Montrealais were amazing. As long as you know the rules in Quebec (i.e. 'different') and at least make an effort at the language, I would recommend it. Sadly, when I asked about immigrating, the Quebec official told me that I needed to improve my French or not to bother. A setback, but "do-able".

I then moved to Vancouver (also on a work permit) as my partner is a BC girl. Vancouver has been an entirely different story and has been disastrous (although the relationship is still strong!)

- HRDC? I cannot say anything polite about them, sorry.
- The clinic I was working with? I will be charitable and say "amateurish".
- Vancouver? I am reminded of the phrase, "beauty is only skin-deep". Imagine Croydon-on-Sea in a beautiful environment, but with less "depth" of character than Croydon itself. They are hoping to reach the dizzy heights of apathy in time for 2010 ... if there is enough marijuana. More "lazy" than "laid-back" - and I have heard that from a number of "international businessmen" with companies here as well.

Bitter? NO! I just feel let down in thinking that I have been "diddled" by Canada saying one thing and doing another. I feel like a mug.

I came to Canada believing the hype that they wanted professionals with new skills that could readily adapt. Yes, I read about all of the immigration problems that teachers and doctors were having, but I didn't believe them.

I could apply again from UK if I wanted, but why go somewhere to have a poorer standard of living, especially when you are not wanted? (and especially when you have spent so much money in the sodding country and paid all of your taxes and they still make it difficult!)

The irony is that if I want to be with my Canadienne, I may have to take it on the chin and return to pump gas or make an ICBC claim. (Working in a clinic, I have see new immigrants making ridiculous claims from ICBC and WCB!)

Montreal was difficult, but fun. Vancouver made me think that Britain is far more impressive than I realised.

I never thought in my wildest dreams that I would be writing that in public!

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

Very interesting.

I have a work collegue who moved to Vancouver about four years ago and never looked back. He is in IT so it may be a completely different experience to your line. Is it more than work that has put you off Canada? Please explain.

I must say, you don't seem to be the only one with a similar line to this. There again as I've said many times, only the ones who it hasn't worked out for are possibly the ones with the time to add their unfortunate experiences to this forum.

Good luck with any move back here.

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It is a sad story and I understand the dissapointment..I live in Holland only because Imy boyfriend and I want to be together, but the country..in my eyes, is not a very welcoming country, amongst other things, but that's another story. But the good thing is that we are preparing to go back to my home town soon, Montreal. I can understand that learning a new language is not easy ( like me learning dutch) but it's always do-able like you say and the advantage in Montreal is that you can always switch back to English when in need..bonus for you.
You seem to have liked Montreal and had a great time there, if you want to stay in Canada why aren't you going back there instead of going back home..the language is not that big of a barrier. My boyfriend who is Dutch can manage in French, he is not fluent, but the fact that he knows that English is spoken there is a huge relief for him..he just loves Montreal!

Don't give up now..think about improving your French..if that's all you would have to do to be with your Canadienne and stay in Canada..but maybe there are some other issues at hand that make you not want to go back to Montreal..

I wish you luck,
La Montréalaise!

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Hi
i've been with this site for over two years and to my mind a theme runs through a lot of the 'can't settle ' stories.The vast majority seem to be those who have moved to the 'western' provinces in Canada far more so than the atlantic/eastern ones.
At first sight the western provinces look more beautiful,perhaps more fun,more relaxed etc but it just appears that many people from the British Isles find it harder to adapt to the more 'American' way of life and often seem lonely and frustrated.Obviously there are exceptions (notably Vancouver Island).
Only my thoughts and i know i will probobly get shoot down.
Mike

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

I know other Britis who are having a great time, I also know a smaller number who are having a crap time ... it's all down to attitude and expectation.

Undoubtedly expats already in Canada come here looking for something, otherwise why would they make the effort?

If you're in the "Canada is crying out for skilled people" brigade, you'll be disappointed by your experiences here.

Emigrating has its ups and downs and many more surprises than you can plan for ... most wannabe expats are clueless about what they're letting themsleves in for ... that's why this forum is so addictive for the rest of us.

Just think of us as the lemmings who made it to the safety of a nice dry block of ice sheet ... watching the rest of you stream over the cliff edge is a fascinating experience :D

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So reading between the lines you are having work permit problems?

Have you consulted an immigration lawyer?

There seems to be a recurring theme here....happy in job, happy in canada. Unhappy in job, unhappy in canada???

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

well you know where to tell that quebec official where to go.

if that is the only thing stopping you that isn`t a problem. my husband applied for pr for the rest of canada....recieved his papers, officially landed in toronto and within 6 hours was across the border in Quebec living a life with quebec medicare, drivers license etc....
the quebec immigration process is just complete bollocks.


hope this helps.

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Didn't you almost lose your footing :rolleyes: ?

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I have to agree with this comment. Canadians seem to pride themselves on their laidbackness (is that a word??) but in may cases it is just an excuse for lazyness!

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I prefer to think of it as a "less stressfull" existence.

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You've seen the Titanic movie ... I was clinging to a lump of wreckage like Leonardo for a while ... almost let go and sunk to the icy depths a couple of times too :eek:

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So far for me the experience is a good if challenging one. I'm enjoying my job and I work with people who are far nicer than the people I worked with in the UK. My job isn't really any different, apart from the fact that I have to deal with Americans from time to time.

For me it's the petty frustrations that are annoying. For example, I've been approved for an unsecured credit card, but I haven't got a bank statement and therefore can't prove my address, so the company won't send one out to me. Because I can't get a credit card, I can't get a cell phone, and because I can't get a cell phone, I feel somewhat isolated.

I don't know how I'll feel about stuff when I move out of my folks place next month, but then again it will give me the impetus I need to get out and meet more people of my own age.

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I so agree with you about Vancouver, I have been here almost five years, and can say Ditto,Ditto, Ditto to all your comments. I loved the Croydon comparision, you are so right. I will miss the stunning beauty of this place, but not the apathy, lazy customer service, greedy restaurant staff, (my friend left a 20% tip in a very high end place, and the waitress actually followed him out and said it was not enough) Why doesn't BC girl try England with you?

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That's what drags most people down ... things just not being as smooth as you would like ... leads to the desire for chocolate, baked beans, Italian loafers, etc :p

We used to complain we didn't have an "Idiot's Guide for how to get things done in Canada" ... life is a bit like a black & white Ealing comedy sometimes .... well missus, until you fill in form B43, I can't let you have a credit card, but you can order your form B43 online and pay with a credit card if you have one, otherwise you have fill in form Z22 and forward that in triplicate to ...

Talk about Passport to Pimlico :eek:

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Please let's keep things in perspective here. You can find that type of behaviour whereever you travel/live in the world - it's not just isolated to BC.

On our last trip to the UK, we met people with some of the rudiest behaviour I have ever encountered- on the other hand for the most part we met and were treated very well by most others........no country is immune to this inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour......and perhaps you might like to consider that perhaps your attitude might have had something to do with the behaviour you received here......

Good luck to you....

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And they hadn't even got to know you yet :p :p

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Well it could be that Vancouver is one of the unfriendliest places I have ever lived in. Victoria on the other hand we have only good memories of. And as for my attitude, no sorry you might have to accept that sometimes people are just rude because that is how they are!

Thanks for your good wishes.

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Well I can say without doubt that parts of Vancouver are beautiful and the people very pleasant.
I can also say that parts of it are a festering shit hole populated by a bunch of ignorant arseholes.

However I can say the same about…

Montreal, Toronto, London, Thunder bay, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton, Lethbridge,

And for what its worth numerous other cites in North America and Europe…

My its amazing how much the world has in common when you really think about it :rolleyes:

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

You are really asking for either a good hard smack on the head, or putting you on my ignore list..... :p


My message wasn't rude - I'm in a really good mood. Just imagine what I could have actually written if I had been in a bad mood :p

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Exactly......and what you make of a situation can really affect the outcome.....

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I'm not trying to get into a debate about the better province/city here.

BUT!....

I think it's worth remembering that whilst Vancouver is probably the most prettiest city in Canada the economy there and in BC as a whole isn't as good as other parts of Canada. The house prices don't seem to reflect this lack of (compared to other parts) economic prosperity.

In short it's a beautiful place with some of the most expensive housing in Canada and the least jobs.

What I think people need to ask themselves is can they afford to live there on the salary they would be receiving? Or as Glaswegian has pointed out would they be better aiming for a less aesthethic part of Canada where they can afford to live and start networking from there in the hope that a decent job might present itself in BC in the future.

We currently live in Calgary.

Would I rather live in Vancouver? Probably yes.
Would I have a better standard of living in Vancouver with all its aesthetics? Probably no.
Would I rather be unemployed in Vancouver than Calgary? Definate No!

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Excellent point!! How refreshing to get away from this 'Oh, it must have been something you did, something you said, etc'. The fact is that, like it or not, there often is a preponderance of people in a certain area with certain traits and characteristics (in this case negative, since you mention 'rudeness') and this cannot be written off with 'Oh, it's the same everywhere, blah, blah, blah'.

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

We currently live in Calgary.

Would I rather live in Vancouver? Definite NO
Would I have a better standard of living in Vancouver with all its aesthetics? Definite NO
Would I rather be unemployed in Vancouver than Calgary? Definite NO

Aesthetics are very much in the eye of the beholder ... personally I'm too busy admiring the blue sky and mountains most of the time to notice what the city looks like :p :p :p

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Perhaps you misunderstood my message. I wasn't implying that the inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour that he had received over the past 5 years was directly related to his attitude. I was taking exception to the fact, that he had made it sound as if Vancouver was the only place in the world that he had received this type of behaviour.....which I'm sure isn't true.......and sometimes when a person is unhappy with a portion of their life, it may indeed come across in different ways.

And yes, I lived in Vancouver for 6 years while going to UBC - personally I would never live in a big city. I have also travelled extensively and yes, this type of unacceptable behaviour is found everything.....

Re: Oh ... Canada ...
 

Some great replies and I think there is very little that is unfair or unreasonable on either side of the points of view. I know of many that would never leave Vancouver and I am genuinely happy for them.

Credit has not been a problem as they keep flinging it at me. $8500 credit card limit, $25k credit-line, $35k car loan, mostly based on my first three months in Montreal.

BC girl is prepared to move to Blighty, but that is another difficult situation to try and get through - we are now thinking that we might as well as well look at more options and are thinking of Aus and NZ as well.

Montreal is a possibility, but osteopathy in Canada is stuck in the dark ages with some factions slagging each other off "left, right and centre". Hardly professional and a stress-free environment!

My work permit problems were due to HRDC in Vancouver not being able to agree to the same conditions that were agreed in Montreal. The clinic decided to work on the Montreal agreement, which is not what they signed off with HRDC. I trusted them and got on with it ... and I was shafted!

Life in Vancouver has been a disappointment. Service and tips are expected, even for bad service. I would never tip for bad service in Britain, but they make a song and dance about it here.

I have had little trouble making friends in the past until I came to Vancouver. There are enough articles in the local papers about "isolationist neighbourhoods" in Greater Vancouver to make me feel that it might not just be me! Most of the friends I have here are "out of towners": Vancouver Island, Ontario and Quebec, whom have found it surprisingly difficult too.

One friend said that it feels as if Vancouverites make you hang on to see if they can find a better offer before they decide to do something with you. It is difficult to disagree sometimes. There is certainly more of a "money and status" culture here than I ever expected.

However, each unto their own!

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I hate to wade into this - have something to add.

I was born in Canada - and my experience of Vancouver is the same as yours! I can also add my experience in Toronto and Montreal weren't very great either.

:) There is much more to Canada than the capital cities of each province and territory - venture further afield and you will find a much different experience :)

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I keep telling BC girl that we need to experience Yukon and NWT, but she seems to be somewhat reluctant! I drove from Montreal to Vancouver and was by and large warmly welcomed everywhere.

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I can safely say that the NWT and Yukon are some of the most beautiful parts of Canada..

However it is no joke when they talk about cold… We visited in June The ferry on the great slave lake was closed due to ice.. and on the shoreline at Hay river the ice still stretched out as far as the eye could see, Whitehorse is beautifully sunny and pleasant during the day, nice t-shirt weather, the water is ice cold in both the lakes and rivers, and even in June you’ll need a full fleece and jacket at night….
Plus they have real bear issues in that part of the world…whilst we stayed in Hay river several houses had some of the siding torn off by hungry bears looking for food after coming out of hibernation…
But if your looking for the real Canada of lore it really is the real thing…

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For sure, Scivers is a word I would use and they encourage/demonstrate it at an early age. Take snow days for example. On a snow day here in Ontario teachers still have to go in. Whenever I drive my kids in on a snow day the staff always say “the kids would be better off at home�. All they do with the kids is put all ages in the library and have them colour or watch videos all day. Why not use these days to teach some valuable one on one stuff
I was an exchange teacher in secondary school here 2 years ago and we had 10 snow days, on each and every one of them, the staff encouraged the brave kids who came in to go home! I am beginning to wonder about the education system here, what with part time for the first 2 years, numerous snow days, zillions of videos watched, lack of external examination system…it’s a bit mickey mouse!

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Seems to produce generally polite, intellegent, well balanced human beings? Maybe they should leave it alone :rolleyes:

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Ouch..or do you spell that owch? Might have missed that day :p