dbd33

There is one small advantage to this byzantine procedure. If you have duty free bottles that you carried on to the plane in England this provides a moment to check them for the onward journey. Otherwise you have to chug the booze in the airport.

Former Lancastrian

Well yes there is that advantage.
Now normally this is the procedure.

Passenger gets off plane and presents declaration card and passport to an officer in a booth or scans passport at a kiosk and fills out on screen declaration questions.
Officer at the booth will code the physical card or the kiosk will print out a ticket.
You collect your bag. After all processing is done you show the card or ticket at the exit officer and then either leave the Customs area or put bags on a connector belt and leave the area. Now they have been rejigging if you actually check in again for your connecting flight and clear security again or given access to the departure lounge and gates bypassing security and just checking in at the gate your flight departs from.

Twitcher1958

Thanks for the mention of the app! I didn’t realize such a thing existed - very handy 😀

dbd33

As always, this is a glaring example of parochial Canada. The officer asks for the card or till roll. The passenger says "what?" and then either heads back to search the bin or drops very many bags and starts rummaging in the pockets in the hope of finding where he or she stuffed it. Few people expect to be asked for the card or now, the scrap of nothing stuff; only the people who've been to Canada before. The bag droppers are, of course, trampled by the next wave of people who don't realize that they're about to be asked to rummage through their bags.

The border staff really do set themselves, and the passengers, up for a miserable time. Why can no one from the border agency go and visit an airport somewhere else in the world to see how to deal with incoming passengers?

Stinkypup

I think you are generalising a tad. YVR was excellent. I had loaded the app which FL mentioned ready to go but didn't need it. Nexus I do admit certainly does significantly smooth the way

scrubbedexpat075

There's no direct flights unfortunately flying november 1st

Siouxie

Sigh.

From the link given in my first post.

dbd33

The only generalization I'm making is that all of the administrative functions at the Toronto airport are poorly conducted. If other airports use the cardboard in mouth technique then I'd say they're not well set up either. I wouldn't know that because, like most people in Canada, I only see one airport in Canada.

Former Lancastrian

The cardboard in mouth is Im assuming the declaration card or kiosk ticket that you get. Many use this approach USA, UK for non EU passport holders, Cuba, Mexico and a few others. Now granted Mexico takes it off you at passport control and then you press a button after baggage collection and see if you get the green or red light.

Questions asked on those cards or kiosks are asked for a specific reason to speed up the process unless that country wants people entering and don't care if the people are bringing in prohibited, restricted or controlled goods.
I have yet to see a person have a stamp on forehead saying Im carrying 10 lbs of rancid maggot infested meat products which are prohibited or something like that. There again Im being foolish because people never lie to Customs officials.

Perhaps you have a plan to submit to the Government to make travel easier and keeping the nasty stuff out of Canada. Im all ears.

dbd33

You’re the specialist but I’ve been to the US, and to the UK in the company of various Americans, literally hundreds of times. Where cardboard is involved it’s handed over at first contact with the authorities. After baggage claim one simply walks through the green door. It’s because that’s the system everywhere else in the world that the mouth carriage system works so badly in Canada, people don’t expect to have to produce forms after collecting their bags. This most recent time through the airport I actively looked for signs, to see if passengers had a reasonable chance of following the procedure, but I couldn’t find any. I think the system is deliberately confrontational though why the border agency wants its staff to spend the whole shift in unnecessary conflict I can’t imagine; I would think there’s enough unavoidable conflict without making more.

Your closing line suggests that the Canadian mouth transfer system deters nasty stuff that would gain access to the UK or, for example, Australia. What does Canada keep out that those countries let in?

Former Lancastrian

Your 1st paragraph does make some very valid points which the UK have been using for years i.e. green line nothing to declare and red line something to declare. Im certainly not against that type of method being used in Canada.

Travellers attitudes have changed over the years and so has the volume of travellers flying. Travelling times have also decreased so getting from A to B is much quicker. Also booking flights is much easier and can be done basically up to 24 hours before flying.

Now lets use this as a hypothetical situation.
Traveller books a flight a day before travelling or has someone else book it with their details. Flies to X country. Returns 3 days later with 4 checked suitcases.
Goes through Customs and officer has no idea how many checked bags this person has because a kiosk is used. Nobody speaks to him/her. Collects bags and leaves the area either handing in a ticket or not.

Now from my view is it normal for a person returning from a 3 day trip to X country with 4 checked bags normal?
It could be totally innocent or nefarious. Its not unusual to see travellers with 4 checked bags but they are the ones who have usually been away for weeks/months at a time which would be normal.

At no stage in the process was that picked up on and investigated further by simple questions or the exit officer looking at the declaration card and going Hmmm been away for 3 days has 4 suitcases thats not normal we might want to take a look.

Anyway I shouldn't dwell on this as I don't do that part anymore so I really don't care what gets in or or gets caught.

lmartin1000

Erm....I have no idea when you would examine my bag but if coming on AC from LHR it will not be Toronto.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...rt/int-ca.html

If you are arriving from Europe or Iceland, you do not need to claim your checked baggage.

Former Lancastrian

See this is a typical example of what an airline says and what it can or cannot do when clearing Customs.
There is no way that CBSA would allow a deplaning passenger off a LHR flight arrive at LBPIA and not have the ability to examine any persons baggage coming off that flight before proceeding to the next flight.
Im betting that you might not physically pick up that bag before boarding the next flight but it will be available for examination and you will need to be present while examined.
Otherwise what a great way to smuggle stuff knowing that your bag won't be checked by CBSA because you are on a flight from LHR.

lmartin1000

Yes, I always prefer to trust posters on the internet over official airline information.

Former Lancastrian

I always prefer to use the legal requirements under the Customs Act and policies and procedures of the CBSA over an airline website.

You are obligated by Canadian law to present yourself to an officer, respond truthfully to all questions, accurately report your goods, and, if requested, present your goods for examination, which may include unpacking and repacking the contents of your luggage or vehicle.

Your cooperation and patience is appreciated while you wait and we conduct our duties. To help us get you on your way as quickly as possible, we ask that you:

treat our employees in a fair, courteous and respectful manner;
recognize that all travellers and goods are subject to review and examination; and
be aware of and comply with the legislation, regulations and policies we administer.
BSF5146 - What to Expect: Secondary Services and Inspections

Section 12.3 Customs Act
Who reports

(3) Goods shall be reported under subsection (1)

(a) in the case of goods in the actual possession of a person arriving in Canada, or that form part of the person’s baggage where the person and the person’s baggage are being carried on board the same conveyance, by that person or, in prescribed circumstances, by the person in charge of the conveyance;

or section 13 of the same Act
Obligation to answer questions and present goods

13 Every person who reports goods under section 12 inside or outside Canada or is stopped by an officer in accordance with section 99.1 shall

(a) answer truthfully any question asked by an officer with respect to the goods; and

(b) if an officer so requests, present the goods to the officer, remove any covering from the goods, unload any conveyance or open any part of the conveyance, or open or unpack any package or container that the officer wishes to examine.
Customs Act

There again Im just a poster on the internet who may or not work for CBSA so absolutely believe the information from that website that there is no need to have Customs look at your bags if off a flight from LHR.

There again a different user name from several years ago is still the same person doing the usual wind ups (wink).