Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Old Sep 22nd 2019, 8:18 pm
  #31  
BE Enthusiast
 
mjwalker007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 412
mjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by glendem4 View Post
Not impressed with the performance of any of the funds from IA
Index trackers have returned better performance.
Will wait until Canadian self investment brokerages are on the ROP list.
In the meantime my SIP in UK continues to grow with Fundsmith and Lindsell Train Global.
Both funds help to mitigate any sterling weakness by investing in companies that earn money abroad
For the right person, specifically, an older client nearing retirement, the guarantees a "seg fund" offers can be very important...............for a 30 something year old with plenty of time to be invested until retirement, maybe not so much !

Your right, will be interesting to see what other providers will decide to go through the process being added back to the list ......... time will tell !
mjwalker007 is offline  
Old Sep 22nd 2019, 8:30 pm
  #32  
BE Forum Addict
 
Hurlabrick's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: London, ON
Posts: 2,078
Hurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

I am waiting for a RRIF to appear for my UK Income Drawdown. Having said that, I am in no hurry to transfer until / unless the exchange rate recovers to something more sensible than the current levels.
Hurlabrick is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 12:26 pm
  #33  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8
susanmountain is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Hi hurlabrick,

I have the opposite query, my husband and I are thinking of sending our nesbitt burns rrsp/pension back to UK, can you help and guide us? In a professional role?
My hubby left uk in 2008, transferred his RBS pension to a rrsp with Nesbitt burns in 2011 through the QROPS scheme .

we then moved back to uk in 2013, but moved back to toronto in 2017, where my hubby will finish his banking career in about 2 years time. We then will move back to the uk to live our lives out... Hubby is seriously considering transferring his pension back now, into a uk scheme, is that possible?
He hasn't touched the pension, rrsp at all, and wont take any money out until he has at least turned 60,
susanmountain is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 12:51 pm
  #34  
BE Forum Addict
 
Hurlabrick's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: London, ON
Posts: 2,078
Hurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by susanmountain View Post
Hi hurlabrick,

I have the opposite query, my husband and I are thinking of sending our nesbitt burns rrsp/pension back to UK, can you help and guide us? In a professional role?
My hubby left uk in 2008, transferred his RBS pension to a rrsp with Nesbitt burns in 2011 through the QROPS scheme .

we then moved back to uk in 2013, but moved back to toronto in 2017, where my hubby will finish his banking career in about 2 years time. We then will move back to the uk to live our lives out... Hubby is seriously considering transferring his pension back now, into a uk scheme, is that possible?
He hasn't touched the pension, rrsp at all, and wont take any money out until he has at least turned 60,
Sorry, I cant help as I have no idea. I dont recall processing any overseas pension 'transfer in' to UK schemes when I worked in the industry. That is not to say it cant be done, just never cone across it.
Hurlabrick is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 2:03 pm
  #35  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8
susanmountain is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

thanks for replying, maybe you know a tax expert that you can put me in touch with to help, if we keep the pension here, but go back to live in the uk?
susanmountain is offline  
Old Oct 10th 2019, 2:37 pm
  #36  
BE Forum Addict
 
Hurlabrick's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: London, ON
Posts: 2,078
Hurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by susanmountain View Post
thanks for replying, maybe you know a tax expert that you can put me in touch with to help, if we keep the pension here, but go back to live in the uk?
Again, not really. I have my own UK independent financial adviser, but he does not know anything about Canadian pensions and I have not yet found a UK-based adviser who is also conversant with Canadian pensions (plenty do UK / US crossover, but not found any that specialise in Canada as well).
Hurlabrick is offline  
Old Oct 15th 2019, 7:19 pm
  #37  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 51
cheesycheese is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Another one added to the list today.
cheesycheese is offline  
Old Oct 16th 2019, 6:15 pm
  #38  
BE Enthusiast
 
mjwalker007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 412
mjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Industrial Alliance and I A Clarington are part of the same group and i know that both of their respective Head Office's worked in conjunction with each other to get approval, so it didnt come as a massive surprise to see them added to the list.

As one offers Seg Funds and the other Mutual Funds, it provides a choice moving forward, which is good news................More importantly im waiting to see if any other providers have requested approval, because as far as im aware, these were the only providers initially that were willing to seek approval.
mjwalker007 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 10:56 am
  #39  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 24
IDB37 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Yes, it is good to see the ROPS list finally containing a Canadian provider again.

However, some key questions need addressing here regarding the core problem with ROPS, namely that they are 'self certified'.

At least one poster who was directly involved in Pension transfers for many years repeatedly assured people that Q/ROPS names on HMRC's list would never be removed because they had checked the back offices were always compliant and the carriers concerned would always meet HMRC rules. Well, we all know what happened subsequently, when HMRC decided to remove every single carrier.

Surely the basic problem remains that HMRC can - at any time - (and without any right of recourse or appeal) remove a 'ROPS' from their list on the grounds that they (HMRC) believe their rules have not been complied with, either recently, or some years ago. In this situation HMRC will not only remove the name from the list, they will say that the scheme never was a valid ROPS in the first place and will therefore reserve the right to go after anyone who has transferred their pension in to that fund, for penalties of up to 55%. (I am not aware that has happened for transfers made to the providers who were removed en-bloc a couple of years ago, but I know a lot of Advisors and Clients have sat very uncomfortably indeed since that happened).

There is (unless I am missing something) simply no way that anyone can protect themselves against HMRC doing this. Yes, you can check & get assurances that all back office requirements 'are being met now and always will be'. But will that still be in the case in reality in a few years time when e.g. a new admin team is established, or worse still HMRC suddenly retroactively re-interpret their own rules, as seemingly was the case last time ?

I'm not being negative, I'm just highlighting - again - the core problem with Q/ROPS, namely that it is a simply a list of providers who self certify that they will always meet HMRC rules. No advisor, Client or anyone else can know that will always match reality.

Finally, regarding the question a poster raised re transferring RRSP's back to the UK, I don't even know if this is possible, (unless of course the RRSP is collapsed first, taking the potentially very substantial resultant tax liability). Also of note is that if a UK taxpayer leaves his/her RRSP in Canada, I'm not sure that HMRC will even recognise the tax deferred features of the RRSP, meaning that any growth therein could be taxable in the UK, even if the funds are not withdrawn.

The above thoughts do not represent advice and are simply based on my own research and reading. I retired as a CFP in Canada a couple of years ago.

Last edited by IDB37; Oct 17th 2019 at 11:01 am.
IDB37 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 5:50 pm
  #40  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 24
IDB37 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Re-reading this thread, it's perhaps important to reiterate that there is no such thing as an "approved" scheme.

HMRC's list makes this abundantly clear:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-th...ification-list

Quote..........

"HMRC will usually pursue any UK tax charges (and interest for late payment) arising from transfers to overseas entities that do not meet the ROPS requirements even when they appear on this list.
This includes where the ROPS requirements have changed and where taxpayers are overseas."

It's all pretty nonsensical really and leaves everyone involved horribly exposed and subject to the future behavioural whims of HMRC.
IDB37 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 6:17 pm
  #41  
BE Enthusiast
 
mjwalker007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 412
mjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Im interested.........why does QROPS exist then ?
mjwalker007 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 6:22 pm
  #42  
BE Forum Addict
 
Hurlabrick's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: London, ON
Posts: 2,078
Hurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond reputeHurlabrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by mjwalker007 View Post
Im interested.........why does QROPS exist then ?
coz no UK scheme would transfer to any Canadian sxheme if it was not on the list. HMRC are simply saying that they cannot guarantee future compliance by schemes o the list.
Hurlabrick is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 6:41 pm
  #43  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 24
IDB37 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by mjwalker007 View Post
Im interested.........why does QROPS exist then ?
A very good question MJW. You make my point precisely.

No doubt that question often arose in discussions betteen Advisors and Clients regarding the transfer of UK pensions into Q/ROPS schemes, all of which were subsequently removed by HMRC, despite the perhaps naive assurances given by some Advisors that this would never occur.

Last edited by IDB37; Oct 17th 2019 at 6:43 pm.
IDB37 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 6:53 pm
  #44  
BE Enthusiast
 
mjwalker007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 412
mjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by IDB37 View Post
A very good question MJW. You make my point precisely.

No doubt that question often arose in discussions betteen Advisors and Clients regarding the transfer of UK pensions into Q/ROPS schemes, all of which were subsequently removed by HMRC, despite the perhaps naive assurances given by some Advisors that this would never occur.

Not really IDB37....quite the opposite ! A slightly rhetorical question......but also pertinent ! QROPS was set up and is administered by the HMRC , so they must have set this up for a reason ! .........unless is just a tax "trap" to gain tax from Ex Pats that decide to use the system..........which obviously there is just no proof of !

It is there to allow ex pats the ability to move their pension funds from out of the UK without any tax liability, so as to not be potentially disadvantaged at retirement if they no longer reside in the UK ! .......it really is as simple as that !..... but as with anything, this has been abused and been taken advantage of, no more so in my opinion, than people moving their funds to QROPS jurisdictions that they dont actually reside in....purely for the "tax benefits" of such transfers ! This was evidenced many years ago with Singapore QROPS and the HMRC took action against these as they clearly broke the rules in regards to what QROPS was introduced for !

Canada being introduced back onto the list is a positive for people that are genuinely looking to use QROPS for the reason it was introduced ..........You now live in Canada, and your intention is to retire in Canada........plain and simple ! and with the introduction of the 25% "Overseas Transfer Charge" the HMRC is clearly looking to make sure that people are using QROPS for the reason it was intended......and not to move your pension to some offshore tax haven to receive preferential tax treatments to what it would receive in the UK
mjwalker007 is offline  
Old Oct 17th 2019, 6:55 pm
  #45  
BE Enthusiast
 
mjwalker007's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 412
mjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond reputemjwalker007 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: New Canada QROPS Provider (at last!)

Originally Posted by IDB37 View Post
A very good question MJW. You make my point precisely.

No doubt that question often arose in discussions betteen Advisors and Clients regarding the transfer of UK pensions into Q/ROPS schemes, all of which were subsequently removed by HMRC, despite the perhaps naive assurances given by some Advisors that this would never occur.
I can also assure you , I was not "naive" when making the decision to move both mine and my wife's pension funds to Canada, and can feel very comfortable in the fact that i will now rely on a regular stable income into retirement, as opposed to worrying what "exchange rate" fluctuations might look like to my retirement income !

Last edited by mjwalker007; Oct 17th 2019 at 7:14 pm.
mjwalker007 is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.