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Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Old Apr 24th 2018, 6:38 pm
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by Novocastrian
My younger son works for the Feds...it appears he's quite good at his job and is being considered for more senior roles...
Being good at one's job and being considered suitable for promotion...not a world I know. Even where numerous and lengthy periods on temporary promotion have been successful.

The bitterness resurfaces.
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Old Apr 24th 2018, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Not learning French will not hinder employment in British Columbia. I know intermediate French and it has never harmed nor helped my employment prospects here. Knowing Mandarin can help secure employment in Pan Asian corporate culture in Vancouver, certainly. If you're a business executive with Shanghainese clients? Mandarin will come in useful, definitely. If you're trying to gain employment in hotel management where the property is owned by wealthy Chinese investors? Your Mandarin will put you ahead of English-only applicants. But French? Not very useful unless federal government employment is your goal in life in Canada, or unless you dream of moving to Montreal (many in BC seeking dreamy bohemian lifestyles do this). Learning French in BC, however, does help one learn Spanish down the road, which is much more useful if one intends on travelling to Mexico, Central America, or South America (excluding Brazil) - a part of the world that is quite accessible from BC. If anything, my French has helped me with learn Spanish more quickly on my excursions south of the USA.

Last edited by Lychee; Apr 24th 2018 at 11:17 pm.
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 12:25 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by danescroft
I have three grandsons, aged 6, 13 and 17. They immigrated into BC with parents in August 2016 and go to The local Province school. The two older boys are not learning French and I suspect this may be a handicap if wanting to get certain jobs e.g working for Government or say Hospital. Could someone comment on that please or maybe have had children in similar circumstances.
Thanks
Why are the 2 older boys not learning French???

One aspect that has not been mentioned is that high schools usually teach French ........... graduation from Grade 12 and entrance to university requires pass marks in English and one other language. That "one other language" has traditionally been French, it ha only been in the last 20 or so years that another language has been acceptable.

It has taken longer than that for the public (ie state) schools to widen the range of languages taught at high school level.

I expect their high school has French classes in every grade, so why are they not in those classes? Have you asked?

There has been a problem in BC in this current school year because class size was mandated to smaller numbers after a Supreme Court decision last year. This has meant the hiring of very large numbers of teachers ........ and specialist teachers are in short supply. But as far as I understand, it is French immersion teachers who are in short supply, not teachers capable of teaching French to Grade 12 level ................... which would be equivalent to the level that we were taught French in the UK!

That is .......... get through the O level exam, and get acceptance to university, then forget it all! I can read the French on the back of the cornflakes box but that is all!


Hospitals in BC certainly won't demand French ........... unless they want to work in Quebec .......... but the Asian languages, including Punjabi and Hindi, could be useful!
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 12:43 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by Lychee
Not learning French will not hinder employment in British Columbia. I know intermediate French and it has never harmed nor helped my employment prospects here. Knowing Mandarin can help secure employment in Pan Asian corporate culture in Vancouver, certainly. If you're a business executive with Shanghainese clients? Mandarin will come in useful, definitely. If you're trying to gain employment in hotel management where the property is owned by wealthy Chinese investors? Your Mandarin will put you ahead of English-only applicants. But French? Not very useful unless federal government employment is your goal in life in Canada, or unless you dream of moving to Montreal (many in BC seeking dreamy bohemian lifestyles do this). Learning French in BC, however, does help one learn Spanish down the road, which is much more useful if one intends on travelling to Mexico, Central America, or South America (excluding Brazil) - a part of the world that is quite accessible from BC. If anything, my French has helped me with learn Spanish more quickly on my excursions south of the USA.
I don't think this is a realistic depiction of the options available to the children of a British immigrant to BC. It is not, I'm my view, probable that those children can learn Mandarin to a level such that it's advantageous in business. They would always have the handicap of not being Chinese. They can learn French and, as you say, that can be a springboard to learning other European languages not just Spanish but Italian. Perhaps not in bicultural Vancouver, but in other Canadian cities French might be useful to deal with people from Vietnam, the Belgian Congo or, indeed, France.

I'm open to being persuaded that I'm wrong on the value of Mandarin; are there, in fact, many white hotel managers doing business in Mandarin in Vancouver? Which hotels do they run?
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 12:44 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
Hospitals in BC certainly won't demand French ........... unless they want to work in Quebec .......... but the Asian languages, including Punjabi and Hindi, could be useful!
You're taking the piss if you think they're going to learn Punjabi or Hindi (unless the parents are native speakers of those languages).
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 3:25 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by dbd33
You're taking the piss if you think they're going to learn Punjabi or Hindi (unless the parents are native speakers of those languages).

I am not!!!

I do know Anglos who speak good Mandarin or Cantonese, and some that are not bad at Punjabi.

Most of the major hotel chains (Fairmont, Westin, Hilton, etc) have hotels in "foreign" countries, and advancement up the chain to the highest levels of management include postings to some of those hotels. It is an advantage to be able to speak a Chinese or Indian language, just as it would to speak French, Spanish, Russian or whatever.

My daughter took the chance to do a year of Cantonese in Grade 11 at her school in the early 1990s, opted not to take the 2nd year .......... those of her classmates who did passed the provincial exam at the end of Grade 12 the following year. Most were Anglos, a couple 3rd or 4th generation Canadian-Chinese and non-Chinese speaking at home, and a few were Chinese speaking at home ............ taking the easy option of a second language
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 10:41 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly

One aspect that has not been mentioned is that high schools usually teach French ........... graduation from Grade 12 and entrance to university requires pass marks in English and one other language. That "one other language" has traditionally been French, it ha only been in the last 20 or so years that another language has been acceptable.
Our son, in the public (state) school system here in Ottawa is just finishing grade 12 now. I believe in Ontario, in the english system you only have to take french until grade 9. In fact in grade 12 the only required subject is english.

You'll find there is a drop off between the age of 5 when children can start in french immersion until grade 12 when high school ends how many kids are still in the programme. A number leave over time and more boys than girls leave it.

In grade 12 in Ontario you can take a french comprehension test which I believe is primarily oral run by a branch of the french government and accredited testers to get your french level certification. It's known as the DELF exam if that means anything.
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
I am not!!!

I do know Anglos who speak good Mandarin or Cantonese, and some that are not bad at Punjabi.

Most of the major hotel chains (Fairmont, Westin, Hilton, etc) have hotels in "foreign" countries, and advancement up the chain to the highest levels of management include postings to some of those hotels. It is an advantage to be able to speak a Chinese or Indian language, just as it would to speak French, Spanish, Russian or whatever.

My daughter took the chance to do a year of Cantonese in Grade 11 at her school in the early 1990s, opted not to take the 2nd year .......... those of her classmates who did passed the provincial exam at the end of Grade 12 the following year. Most were Anglos, a couple 3rd or 4th generation Canadian-Chinese and non-Chinese speaking at home, and a few were Chinese speaking at home ............ taking the easy option of a second language
Those three hotel chains are all foreign owned (Fairmont is French owned).

Several years ago my wife and I stayed in a downtown Montreal hotel. The "public" staff all used English as the default language. They didn't really have much choice. The parking lot was full of US licence plates.
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 11:45 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
I do know Anglos who speak good Mandarin or Cantonese, and some that are not bad at Punjabi.
I'm sure there are such people, I knew one. However I'm confident that the number of people who learned one of those languages while living in an English speaking home, taking the language at school, who reached a level of fluency and knowledge of Asian customs such that their skill was of advantage at work, is approximately nil.

Of course one can say the same of any language, people who are fluent generally have a connection to the language at home as well as, or instead of, learning it in an academic setting. Learning Chinese in high school strikes me as a terrible waste and for no good purpose:

- you only have one set of children (well most people anyway), you want the best outcome for them, not necessarily the outcome most fashionable in Vancouver's equivalent of Islington (if any)
- if the US immigration policy changes Chinese in Vancouver will no longer have the utility it has today, it's value in Canada is a quirk of the economics of other countries
- few people learn it successfully
- time better spent on a official language of the country with equal utility in the occupations mentioned, one we know lots of people are successful in learning.

It would be rather ironic if the kids were packed off to master ying-tonging and the next wave of Vancouver McLaren buyers came from Vietnam.
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 1:41 pm
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
Why are the 2 older boys not learning French???

One aspect that has not been mentioned is that high schools usually teach French ........... graduation from Grade 12 and entrance to university requires pass marks in English and one other language. That "one other language" has traditionally been French, it ha only been in the last 20 or so years that another language has been acceptable.

It has taken longer than that for the public (ie state) schools to widen the range of languages taught at high school level.

I expect their high school has French classes in every grade, so why are they not in those classes? Have you asked?

There has been a problem in BC in this current school year because class size was mandated to smaller numbers after a Supreme Court decision last year. This has meant the hiring of very large numbers of teachers ........ and specialist teachers are in short supply. But as far as I understand, it is French immersion teachers who are in short supply, not teachers capable of teaching French to Grade 12 level ................... which would be equivalent to the level that we were taught French in the UK!

That is .......... get through the O level exam, and get acceptance to university, then forget it all! I can read the French on the back of the cornflakes box but that is all!


Hospitals in BC certainly won't demand French ........... unless they want to work in Quebec .......... but the Asian languages, including Punjabi and Hindi, could be useful!
Is that a BC thing? My daughter obtained entry to university and was able to graduate from high school notwithstanding the fact that she has only ever studied English as a language.
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Old Apr 25th 2018, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

I don't know whether the English plus one other language is only a BC thing or not.

I checked with someone who knows more than me, and that was the answer I got.

It's no different from the England that I grew up in ........ university acceptance required GCE passes in English and one other language, no matter your specialization. French, Latin and German were the options at my school.
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Old Apr 26th 2018, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
I don't know whether the English plus one other language is only a BC thing or not.

I checked with someone who knows more than me, and that was the answer I got.

It's no different from the England that I grew up in ........ university acceptance required GCE passes in English and one other language, no matter your specialization. French, Latin and German were the options at my school.
You sure about that? In my day the requirement was O-Level passes in English and maths.
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Old Apr 27th 2018, 12:04 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by Souvy
You sure about that? In my day the requirement was O-Level passes in English and maths.

I guess it depended a) on what you were intending to do, and b) the Board

I had to have 5 O levels in English Lit, English Lang, math, a science (Biology), a 2nd language (French). I added the options of History, Geography, and a 3rd language (German). I then added Chemistry O level 2 years later for a total of 9. I later ended up with 4 A levels, and Chemistry A level at an O level pass (again!).

I wasn't very good at chemistry but had to pick it up in Lower 6th because I needed it to do Botany & Zoology at my university of choice.
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Old Apr 27th 2018, 12:15 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

Originally Posted by scilly
I don't know whether the English plus one other language is only a BC thing or not.

I checked with someone who knows more than me, and that was the answer I got.

It's no different from the England that I grew up in ........ university acceptance required GCE passes in English and one other language, no matter your specialization. French, Latin and German were the options at my school.
A one particular university thing perhaps? My nephew managed to get accepted to university in BC quite nicely with only English.
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Old Apr 27th 2018, 6:26 am
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Default Re: Need to speak French for a job in British Canada?

I am a Francophone. I can't imagine outside of Quebec, Ottawa, and perhaps some parts of the Maritimes it would be a make-or-break advantage or necessity.

If they end up wanting to work very rural, like in Saskatchewan but outside of the major cities, then perhaps it could be a tiny advantage but probably not. Much better reasons to learn French than that.

I wouldn't really worry about it in the Maritimes either, outside of maybe New Brunswick.
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