BristolUK

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...housing-crisis

scrubbedexpat091

Too small.....

After living in what they call a micro apartment at 400 some odd sq feet which was unpleasant with 2 people and a dog, I would never want to live in anything smaller then a typical 1 bedroom.....Small spaces are not good for mental health.

DigitalGhost

I would agree with you. They work to some degree in Asia because of the culture and lifestyle. People there are used to being around others almost constantly, working very long hours and spending most of their time out of the house. It isn't uncommon for even a married parent in Hong Kong, South Korea or Japan to literally only return home for a few hours sleep and a shower every night.

Westerners just mostly live a different lifestyle and have a very different mindset. I just don't think it would work tbh, even in London or Manhattan.

scilly

Apparently it is thought that these very small apartments will be popular with young people, who want to live in Vancouver or the centre of eg Surrey, and who would spend most of their time outside the apartment.

These buildings seem to be suggested for right down town or at transit hubs ................ and really sound very like the Asian plan of a place to sleep and shower.

We have such a large population of young Asians, many of whom are recent immigrants, that they are likely to be popular.

I certainly would not expect 2 people and a pet to be able to live in them permanently ........... and I don't think that is the developers' plan either from what I have read. It's simply another way to attempt to solve a housing crisis. Sharing with a girl/boy friend for short term, probably OK, but long-term would mean moving out, I would think!

MillieF

BristolUK

I lived in a room about 10" by 8" for about 7 years. No sink, no baby belling, shared bathroom and kitchen but no rota. I knew everyone in the building

I had my record player - Sanyo music centre - but no TV. I spent most of my home time in that room.

DigitalGhost

I agree that for a young professional singleton or student, this kind of living scenario could work. The challenge is that it should be affordable and when it comes to Asia, these homes tend to be quite expensive. They have small 1 room apartments like that in Akihabara and Shibuya in Tokyo but they still command rents of around £600-800 per month plus bills on occasion.

Is the housing situation in Vancouver really that bad that they need to start offering things like this? They'll be opening Canadian capsule hotels next.

scrubbedexpat091

Vacancy rate hovers around 0.5% and rents are high and don't match the income levels anymore, to buy you need an above average income, even a condo will be 500,000 and up, a single family home will be over a million.

Average rents are high as well, we live in not so great area of Vancouver and still pay 1,750 a month for a 1 bedroom on 35,000/yr income.

I work with a few people at work living in bachelor suites on the south side which is typically lowest rent area and they still all pay 1,200-1,400 a month.

Suppose it depends on your perspective from your income level as to whether housing is an issue in Vancouver. If you can afford to buy or able to pay 2000-4,000 a month in rent without it being a burden financially then one may not see an issue with the housing situation, if your a more modest income earner to low income earner then likely will see housing as a major issue as rent will be a huge financial burden and creates financial uncertainty in the future.

If your solely on disability and not in subsided housing, then your likely using all your income just on rent assuming you can find a place to rent to begin with.

The only solution to the housing issue here at this point is to build social housing or provide more rent subsidy programs that assist in paying rent, the is a major lack of social housing and can take 7+ years to even get into a place, sometimes never getting into a BC Housing unit.

Building smaller units doesn't seem to result in more affordability, the small units we looked at in Vancouver were still north of 1,200 a month.

Vancouver only lacks land in the sense a lot is being used for single family homes, remove those homes and build up and Vancouver has a long time before they run out of land, its just poor use of land currently.

DigitalGhost

Wow, I never realised it was that desperate. I've been tempted to consider Vancouver in the past but the high cost of living has always put me off. Admittedly I would still rather live in Vancouver than London though.

scilly

This is not strictly true ......... Vancouver lacks land because it has no land except what is currently within the city boundaries. The boundaries cannot be expanded by taking in more land for new developments, as can happen in many cities, because Vancouver is surrounded on 3 sides by water and on the 4th butts right up against another city. The boundary between Vancouver and Burnaby literally runs down the centre of Boundary Road

The majority of single family houses in Vancouver are on smallish lots ........... 30' x 120'/133', 40' x 120'/133', or 60' x 120'/133/140'/ 150'. In areas very close to downtown, the lot sizes are even smaller.

The problem with accommodations for all income levels is that the Federal Government stopped funding subsidized or lower income houses many years ago, and the provincial and municipal governments didn't have sufficient funds to fill the gap, so developers took over. Then the various levels of government began to increase immigration, with particular attention being paid to wealthy investors.

This led to developers buying up the small old houses that were relatively cheap, demolishing them, and building giant houses laden with all the bells and whistles ............ all designed to attract those with money.

As a long-time resident here, I can tell you that it was also difficult to buy a house in the 1970s ....... Vancouver has always been more expensive than other places simply because of the lack of land for expansion. We bought a small house with 2 bedrooms, the cost just about fit within our budget. We intended to move up to a bigger house in about 5 years after that first buy, but could not afford it, even though both of us were working.

We're still living in that small house, still only have 2 bedrooms although we did build a small extension. When we eventually sell that house it will almost undoubtedly be bought by a developer, knocked down, and replaced by a 2 or 3 storey house with basement. That house will sell for between $1.5 - 2 million MORE than the little house sold for.

Even if our house was bought as part of a land assembly, and townhouses built in its place, each individual townhouse will sell for up to $500,000 MORE than we sold for.


There is finally money coming from the Federal Government to build subsidized or lower income housing, with local governments handing over land on which these can be built.

One unfortunate aspect has been that Vancouver has lost industrial land in the last 20-30 years ......... handing it over for development of housing. No industry means no local jobs. IT jobs are plentiful and lauded ............. but how many people are experienced in IT? Certainly not many of my neighbours are IT .... they're car mechanics,truck drivers, small business owners, work at the airport, etc etc etc

DigitalGhost

That would actually work quite well in my favour, especially considering the sizable game development and media sector there. I've heard the pay isn't particularly good in Vancouver though compared with the cost of living. Overall I think I'd still personally prefer Toronto especially since I'm comfortable with the place at this point.

In any case, it does seem like Canada is becoming more white collar, especially in the major cities. When I first started looking at Canada as a destination, they mostly wanted blue collar trades people as skilled immigrants and their only IT work permit program was actually designed to fill their local skill shortages for the games industry.

Looking at this forum and others, it now seems like more people who move there are in skilled professions, education, management and service sector jobs rather than the traditional plumbers, bricklayers etc. I guess the far higher numbers of immigrants from India and China compared with those from the US and Europe have contributed to that though.

moneypenny20

Don't ask me why but I've been watching a Canadian programme called 'Love it or list it Vancouver'. It's dumb, these programmes always are and the designer and real estate agent are dreadful but I've got caught up in looking at houses and finding out what they go for. The prices you guys pay for what looks pretty basic is horrendous. Each time I've guessed a price I've been about half a million out. It all looks beautiful - mountains, ocean, islands etc but jesus wept, the house prices are depressingly crazy.

scrubbedexpat091

Wages for the lower end are actually increasing in Vancouver but I do believe the upper end wages are lower compared to other city's. On the lower end the high cost of housing has created a labor shortage since well people making a low wage cannot afford housing in Vancouver.

The airport is a good example nearly every company there is always hiring, most cannot hire fast enough to keep up with attrition and are always running short staffed. Even with companies raising wages there is a difficulty in getting people since even at 15-19/hr one cannot truly afford to rent housing in Vancouver.



But Vancouver is insane when it comes to housing, it really is only a place those earning 6 figures can truly afford and have a life, everyone else will be in a constant financial struggle for the most part.

We would move but we are stuck here at the moment for medical stuff, if we move I cannot access the what I need so really have no choice at the moment, but it sucks, pay rent and nothing left, kind of sad in a way.

DigitalGhost

Yeah I totally sympathise with you there, that would make me go insane. It's the main reason why I wouldn't really entertain the idea of living in London.

scrubbedexpat091

I can only imagine London is likely not an easy place to survive without a high income.

There are lower rent areas in BC, problem with those areas is you need a car, and once you account for the cost of the car, one may not be better off in a smaller city because of high cost og owning a car.