Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

We are moving from Sydney to Toronto later this year. I am currently conducting more research on Toronto to ensure that we are making a right decision. I have a good IT job in Sydney but still want to try out Canada as our PR expires in next 18 months. It would be great if someone can compare Sydney with Toronto on the following areas:

(1) Infrastructure – roads and public transport
(2) Schooling
(3) IT jobs ( .net or Business Objects related)
(4) Weather
(5) General lifestyle / standard of living
(6) Shopping ( groceries etc)
(7) Work ethics
(8) Tolerance to migrants

Thanks

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

I come from Southern Africa originally. Have lived in Calgary for 30 years, except for a 4 year gap comprised of 18 months in Houston and 2.5 years in Melbourne. During my time in Calgary I've visited Toronto a few times as a tourist, and during my time in Melbourne I visited Sydney a few times as a tourist. I don't know everything about the two places, but I'll do my best to answer your questions.

I think Toronto is at least as good as Sydney in that regard, maybe better.
Toronto is better in the sense that you don't need to pay for private schools to get decent schooling for your children.
Sorry, I don't know enough about the topic to comment.
Sydney is better hands down. But then you should understand my bias, since it's close to what I was used to in South Africa.
Sydney's lifestyle is better, but Toronto's standard of living might be slightly better. Toronto is on the shores of a large lake and, further north, there is "cottage country," where there are still more lakes that people go to on weekends. Still, it cannot begin to compare with Sydney's beaches. Toronto also suffers quite a bit from air pollution. But cars and electrical appliances are cheaper in Toronto, so that's why I mentioned that, while Sydney's lifestyle (and I would add quality of life) is better, Toronto's standard of living might be a bit better.
Sydney's fresh fruit and vegetables are superior to Calgary's, but then I think Toronto's are too. Maybe Sydney's are better than Toronto's, but the gap is not as big as it would be if you were coming to Calgary.
We have a regular poster here, dbd33, who has put the fear of God into all of us. He lives in Toronto. Well I guess he has just moved outside of Toronto, but his work is still centred in Toronto. Anyway, he works in the IT industry and, if he is to be believed, working in that industry is like being a galley slave. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my drift.

But I think IT is like that everywhere, isn't it? Wherever I've worked, the IT people have made major installations and performed major overhauls on weekends when it wouldn't affect other workers.

My son is in the IT field here in Calgary, and he works on weekends a fair amount.
Toronto is good in that regard, and probably has the edge over Sydney, once you've got past the hurdle of not having that magical "Canadian experience" in the workplace.

Hope that helps.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

Are you originally Australian, or a migrant to Australia? If the latter, then why would you want to uproot yourself a second time?

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

Nor do you in Sydney.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

Okay, let me re-phrase that. A higher percentage of kids attend private schools in Australian cities than is the case in Canadian cities.

The statistics between the two countries were markedly different when we lived in Melbourne from July 1997 to January 2000.

Since our return to Canada, my perception is that private school attendance in Canada has crept up a little. But I think it's fair to say it's still nowhere near Australia's percentage.

So it might be more accurate to say there is a larger percentage of parents in Australia who believe that their kids can get a better education at private schools or that the old school tie will give them an advantage later in life or whatever it is that persuades them to part with their money.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

but it is usual for people in the IT business in Australia to do so. It's not in Canada.

I do think the working conditions in Canada are pretty brutal. A difference may be that Ontario is a branch plant economy, head office is usually in America and it's US employment standards that apply. Many installations have outsourced and India is +10 hours from here; that means a lot of early mornings in order to have conference calls, most software vendors are in the US and they tend to be behind us so talking to anyone in California means staying late. Visits to clients, courses and conferences usually mean travel to the US and plenty of people commute weekly (of course it's not so brutal as flying from Sydney for a conference in Vegas). It's usual to be expected to be available 24/7.

The tax structure in Canada for contractors is much better than it is in Australia; even my farm tractor has become neccessary equipment for a computer consultancy. That said, when I've stayed with colleagues in Sydney and Adelaide who have similar positions to mine I've been a bit stunned at their material standard of living; even without the bohemian domestic arrangements I could not consider having a yacht or a beach house.

All in all, I'd say that Sydney and Toronto are similar medium-large cities with ethnically diverse populations, neither is a big centre for the IT industry so, apart from the weather or a preference for baseball over cricket, I wonder why someone would uproot from one to move to the other.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

I moved from Toronto to Sydney 8 months ago.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

If Toronto's more diverse how come there's more choice of groceries in Sydney? I reckon the staggering variety of stuff on offer in Toronto is because it's all home cooking to someone here.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

I have a hard time believing the statement about a bigger choice of food in Sydney, that is, when processed food, like salad dressings, etc., is taken into consideration.

My experience of Melbourne was that, compared with Calgary, Melbourne's Asian food aisle was stocked with more variety than the equivalent aisle in Calgary. On the other hand, Calgary's Mexican food aisle was stocked with more variety than the equivalent aisle in Melbourne.

When it came to general items that were common to both cultures, e.g., salad dressing, breakfast cereal, etc., there was a bigger choice of flavours, brand names, etc., in Calgary. That is not to say there wasn't enough choice in Melbourne. There was plenty of choice. If anything, it could be argued that the choice in Calgary is more than enough.

Where Melbourne was head and shoulders above Calgary was in the variety and quality of fresh fruit and vegetables.

Re: Moving from Sydney to Toronto
 

Quality of fresh produce is iffy in Toronto. In the winter, it's likely been grown in Chile and then bagged and labelled in Kenya before it reaches the shelves. It's different in summer, of course.

However, the variety of fresh, packaged and cooked products (excluding alcohol) on offer here is just astonishing, I'd hazard a guess that only in NYC is there more variety and then only because they have grits. If you include alcoholic beverages then, yes, Toronto suffers a bit.