Pizzawheel

Everyone wants electrical engineers DBD. They're just so goddamed desirable.

Shard

Indeed. And as there is less and less need for engineers, the question will be should we continue to educate for education's sake. I think we should,we're all living longer, and there's no reason that tertiary education cannot become a fundamental right p/responsibility in the same way that primary and secondary now is. Ok, there are some major economic issues to resolve, but I think this issue will be on the horizon in two decades time.

Almost Canadian

Why does one have to attend university to become educated for education's sake? Isn't it possible for most to achieve that by simply reading which, one would hope, is within the abilities of most?

Gowest

I have a question. We should land next summer after my eldest has completed his A levels. I have 2 younger daughters. Where we are in UK doesn't suit us and hopefully on balance it will be a good move for us all. My son hasn't decided what he wants to do after school but may well come with us and work and travel in Canada for a year then study in Europe or Canada or take over the world through playing computer games (his plan)

People here seem to be saying higher education in UK is cheaper than in Canada but most of the courses he's interested in have tuition fees of £6000-9000 a year. Studying in EU eg Denmark would have no tuition fees.
Can't see living expenses being much worse in a big city in Canada than in UK unless my research is way off. Why is the cost of higher education in Canada being quoted as being a big disadvantage compared to UK?

SchnookoLoly

I can't speak for all universities etc, but I can share what it was for me and my brother, we both went through Canadian university relatively recently.

For me (mid-2000s), my tuition was $5600 for year 1, and $10,000 for years 2, 3, and 4. That's just tuition. There were student fees on top of that (a few hundred a year, can't remember the exact amount), plus my university was 3 hours away from home, so I lived in residence my first year (~$10k) and then in a rented apartment the remaining 3 years. So my tuition all in was about $35,000, add another $5000 in assorted student fees and such, and then living expenses on top of that.

My brother went to the same university, but 4 years later. His tuition was $10,000 for each of his four years, and his residence fee was $12,000 when he attended. So his tuition came in at about $45,000 plus living expenses.

Now, worth noting that at this particular university, both our programs were considered "specialized" programs. Standard arts/science degrees ran more like $6000/year in tuition. It was just the programs the two of us happened to choose.

YMMV.

itsasmallworld

Gowest: I have been pricing up tuition/extras and residence costs for universities in SW Ontario.

Tuition on its own appears to be cheaper than in the UK where prices have risen to 9000 pounds. This however only applies to regular courses at around $7000. Any course in finance/engineering/proffessions is likely to be $12000 or more. I am not sure everyone is aware of how expensive UK tuition is these days. Expect at least $1000 more in extra but required costs like student fees/insurance/ health etc etc.

I suspect on-campus residence/ food packages (often required) are slightly more expensive here, but off campus accommodation could be a real expense especially nearer Toronto.

Travel is often a big expense as the distances are so huge, public transport to our location is often non-existent. I think google gave an estimated time of 27 hours using public transport to get the 2 hours driving distance from McMasters to my home. Therefore it is likely that both my kids might have to have a car at some point during those four years!

I know in the USA there is a massive rip-off relating to "required" reading for courses. The professors make there own/friends books "required" and the costs can amount to $2000 or more a year. I bought about 5 course books when I was doing a degree in the UK and really din't need them. I am not sure if this money making scheme is prevalent in Canada.

Co-ops and internships (thin and thick sandwich courses) are increasingly popular but you will be charged extra admin costs and can not guarantee that you will be paid.

The big issue really is that to get a standard honors bachelor degree will take 3 years in the UK and four years in Canada so even if it slightly cheaper to pay for one year in Canada it is overall more expensive because of this.

Final thought: There is a feeling over here that a regular degree is "two a penny" and you need to look at getting a masters or doctorate if you want to stand out. Yeh, more money!!

dbd33

A car, it seems to me, is a ludicrous luxury for a student. Surely Greyhound will do for the annual trek home and a bicycle will do for around the school.

itsasmallworld

I am hoping they might come home more often than once a year!

HGerchikov

I tend to agree with you (in fact I have agreed with quite a few of your posts in the past few days - should I be worried?). However, the downside of the co-op position for our son was that he had to have his own transportation so he does have his own car. The money he earns on the co-op though will pay for it four times over.

dbd33

Agreement is cause for concern, yes, you must be getting curmudgeonly.


My children have largely ignored cars, they can drive but seem to have no interest in having a car. One used a Ducatti for a bit (in London ) but none of them owns a vehicle. They got to and from a variety of universities and jobs by bicycles and public transport (as is quite usual for their generation) but then they've always either been living in cities or living so rurally that cars are no help.

Pizzawheel

This is a very pertinent point- I have no actual idea what the situation is over there as I thought tuition fees were still covered (I know the student grant has gone. Those were good eh?)

Gowest

Didn't get a grant though my elder brother did. Tuition fees came in in the last few years. Unis (except Scotland for Scottish students) can charge £3-9000 a year although I'm sure that will increase soon. Most unis charge at the higher end and my son has been considering London School of Economics which is the top end of charging and not exactly cheap for living expenses. I'm not convinced if he decides to study in Canada it will cost us more and he's the type who would probably prefer a co-op degree or an internship so it might even work out better. There are unis in Denmark amongst other EU countries that teach courses in English that he is considering and they don't have tuition fees. He would need to learn Danish to live there but as he thinks languages are only of use for chatting up women I'm sure he would find the motivation.

Oink

Go to any social science/humanities Canadian "academic" conference and you'll see the very definition of Micky Mouse. They're pathetic.

Oink

Of course not, its all story telling bollocks.

BexB

My son will be going to university this September. We looked at universities in Ontario last November and UK universities a couple of weeks ago. A comparison of the (domestic)costs is covered in the posts above, but the other thing to bear in mind is domestic/international fees and funding support, which may vary depending on your "status".

In Canada (Ontario at least), it seems that if you have a temporary work permit then your son/daughter will pay domestic fees (although they will need to obtain a study permit, $100 I think). I guess the logic is that you're a Canadian taxpayer and so should benefit from subsidised tuition costs. For each UK university, you have to complete a fee assessment questionnaire, which includes questions as to why you're resident in Canada, whether you retain a house in the UK etc. My TWP expires July 2016, so at the moment we have successfully been able to argue that our stay in Canada is temporary and hence obtain domestic fee status. Apart from lower tuition fees, these can be met by a UK loan, reducing the amount of cash you have to find up front.
Assuming, touch wood, we obtain PR status later this year, my son could well be classed as an international student for the second and subsequent years, if he goes to a UK university, meaning much higher tuition fees and no UK funding support.