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Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Old Dec 2nd 2013, 4:36 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

I think the important thing is to do your research - that's something that I and my ex-husband didn't do enough of (and one reason our marriage failed). I also think people who moved to Canada 20 years ago had a very different experience from people who have moved in more recent years (just my perception).

Re: the medical - it is quite a thing to get through so I would look into whether you can pass it if you have not been able to get through other medicals.

My experience of Canada has been painful - some of that is due to decisions I made and some of it has been the situations I've found myself in. One thing I would say is that if you immigrate there is a possibility that you may have to start your life all over again in terms of career and getting entry into the job market is very challenging (hence it's good to do research and find out exactly what opportunities are out there for the area you are interested in working in and what the educational requirements are).

My ex-husband has had a very good experience of Canada. My experience has been very different. We moved for his job (he had a job to go to) - if you can do that, it may cut out a lot of heartache.

In terms of horses, the Ontario racing industry has been very negatively affected by government changes - so I would suggest exploring Alberta to see what the opportunities are there.

Good luck.
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by Englishmaple View Post
I also think people who moved to Canada 20 years ago had a very different experience from people who have moved in more recent years
How so?
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

At the risk of being flamed by people who moved 20 years ago (who may argue very differently), the sense I have (which was backed up by what I was taught on my social work degree) is that new immigrants are more highly qualified now but are often stuck in poorly paid entry level work (or poorly paid minimum wage contract work). And entry into the labour market is much more challenging - employers demand more (in terms of educational credentials) and income inequality has meant that people are paid a lot less (relative to the living costs of many years ago where the pay difference was not so great).

In addition to these points, the huge thing I have noticed compared to the UK is the lack of transparency in the labour market. My experience in Ontario has been that it's who you know not what you know that counts when it comes to getting a job - and this can be very difficult for new Canadians who don't have the deep rooted connections that individuals who have grown up in their local communities have.

Some I think would argue that the same holds true for the UK but when I worked in the UK I found the job market pretty transparent and I never had much of a problem getting work - whereas I've been told that 80% of jobs in Ontario are unadvertised. Related to this is the fact that so many employers demand certain qualifications but even if those are obtained (and at great cost), it's still the personal connection that counts in terms of getting work.

My experience may also reflect the fact that I live in a relatively small insular city but it's been a huge challenge for me to find employment - and that can cause a huge strain on relationships if one hasn't talked around the money issues if one partner can't get a job or jobs are hard to come by.

Volunteering is a big way in to getting "canadian experience" and getting paid work but it's not guaranteed - so it's really important to do your homework in terms of moving and job opportunities (as well as cost of living).
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 5:23 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by Englishmaple View Post
At the risk of being flamed by people who moved 20 years ago (who may argue very differently), the sense I have (which was backed up by what I was taught on my social work degree) is that new immigrants are more highly qualified now but are often stuck in poorly paid entry level work (or poorly paid minimum wage contract work). And entry into the labour market is much more challenging - employers demand more (in terms of educational credentials) and income inequality has meant that people are paid a lot less (relative to the living costs of many years ago where the pay difference was not so great).

In addition to these points, the huge thing I have noticed compared to the UK is the lack of transparency in the labour market. My experience in Ontario has been that it's who you know not what you know that counts when it comes to getting a job - and this can be very difficult for new Canadians who don't have the deep rooted connections that individuals who have grown up in their local communities have.

Some I think would argue that the same holds true for the UK but when I worked in the UK I found the job market pretty transparent and I never had much of a problem getting work - whereas I've been told that 80% of jobs in Ontario are unadvertised. Related to this is the fact that so many employers demand certain qualifications but even if those are obtained (and at great cost), it's still the personal connection that counts in terms of getting work.

My experience may also reflect the fact that I live in a relatively small insular city but it's been a huge challenge for me to find employment - and that can cause a huge strain on relationships if one hasn't talked around the money issues if one partner can't get a job or jobs are hard to come by.

Volunteering is a big way in to getting "canadian experience" and getting paid work but it's not guaranteed - so it's really important to do your homework in terms of moving and job opportunities (as well as cost of living).
I don't disagree with you, however, if someone comes to Canada with professional skills that are in demand and there is a shortage of, then the outcome would be different to that which you (and I) have experienced.

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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by Englishmaple View Post
At the risk of being flamed by people who moved 20 years ago (who may argue very differently), the sense I have (which was backed up by what I was taught on my social work degree) is that new immigrants are more highly qualified now but are often stuck in poorly paid entry level work (or poorly paid minimum wage contract work). And entry into the labour market is much more challenging - employers demand more (in terms of educational credentials) and income inequality has meant that people are paid a lot less (relative to the living costs of many years ago where the pay difference was not so great).

In addition to these points, the huge thing I have noticed compared to the UK is the lack of transparency in the labour market. My experience in Ontario has been that it's who you know not what you know that counts when it comes to getting a job - and this can be very difficult for new Canadians who don't have the deep rooted connections that individuals who have grown up in their local communities have.

Some I think would argue that the same holds true for the UK but when I worked in the UK I found the job market pretty transparent and I never had much of a problem getting work - whereas I've been told that 80% of jobs in Ontario are unadvertised. Related to this is the fact that so many employers demand certain qualifications but even if those are obtained (and at great cost), it's still the personal connection that counts in terms of getting work.

My experience may also reflect the fact that I live in a relatively small insular city but it's been a huge challenge for me to find employment - and that can cause a huge strain on relationships if one hasn't talked around the money issues if one partner can't get a job or jobs are hard to come by.

Volunteering is a big way in to getting "canadian experience" and getting paid work but it's not guaranteed - so it's really important to do your homework in terms of moving and job opportunities (as well as cost of living).
Pretty much how it was 20 years ago then. Success is still down to adaptability and graft. If you want it you got to go out and get it. Some can some can't.

In my profession new immigrants have the same level of education as they did 20-30 years ago, what does count is industry experience. This holds true anywhere.

Jobs being unadvertised is not about transparency of any kind. It is about availability of labour. Job hunters here will cold call, submitting resumes on the off chance of a job, companies will accept resumes and hold them. Then there are contacts people have in an industry.

When there is an adequate supply of labour on file, there is no need to advertise, an unnecessary cost and waste of time.
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Aviator immigrants do less well now than they did years ago. This is a fact.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11f0019...008319-eng.pdf

Just look at some of the chapter headings. "The deteriorating low-income position of recent immigrants" "the credentialism issue" etc.

our own government admits there is a problem with underemployment of recent immigrants.

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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 6:37 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by Englishmaple View Post
At the risk of being flamed by people who moved 20 years ago (who may argue very differently), the sense I have (which was backed up by what I was taught on my social work degree) is that new immigrants are more highly qualified now but are often stuck in poorly paid entry level work (or poorly paid minimum wage contract work). And entry into the labour market is much more challenging - employers demand more (in terms of educational credentials) and income inequality has meant that people are paid a lot less (relative to the living costs of many years ago where the pay difference was not so great).
I don't think this is a uniquely Canadian thing. There has been a hollowing out of the labour markets in most advanced economies with concentrations in a relatively small number of extremely well paid jobs and a much larger number of extremely badly paid jobs. Middle income jobs are declining so many new immigrants end up fighting for the the badly paid ones.

On the transparency thing yes, there is some truth in that. However, in the UK you were on the inside looking out, now you are on the outside looking in. You see things from a different perspective. It is not that much different in the UK. The Old Boy network is still alive and well.
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 7:10 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by JonboyE View Post
I don't think this is a uniquely Canadian thing. There has been a hollowing out of the labour markets in most advanced economies with concentrations in a relatively small number of extremely well paid jobs and a much larger number of extremely badly paid jobs. Middle income jobs are declining so many new immigrants end up fighting for the the badly paid ones.

On the transparency thing yes, there is some truth in that. However, in the UK you were on the inside looking out, now you are on the outside looking in. You see things from a different perspective. It is not that much different in the UK. The Old Boy network is still alive and well.
I still think there is a shortage of "head down arse up" people and too many who think everyone owes them a lifestyle and a living, and people who don't want it bad enough to put themselves out to get it, maybe I'm just intolerant of people who fail because they won't step out of their little bubble of what they had in the uk, it's different, it's Canada, roll up your sleeves and get on with it, get a job before you come then you have some security, All the info you need and peoples experiences are plastered all over the Internet nowadays, I know people have bad luck, I currently am being slightly stiffed by my company but it's a means to an end, get dug in and make it work, sorry slightly grumpy today, bye
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

You'd probably be best advised to google horse racing/breeding in Canada (or Alberta specifically as the provinces often have their own rules for such things) and find out who the professional governing bodies are so that you can put these questions regarding recognition of qualifications directly to them.

Aside from the medical requirements, have you checked that either yours or your partner's occupations are "eligible occupations" for the purposes of obtaining visas?

If you just wanted to work with horses, not necessarily racing or breeding, but more along wrangler lines, something you might not have thought of is the "dude ranches" here, especially in B.C. and Alberta. Again, just google it and you'll see the multitude of ranch resorts here.
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Old Dec 2nd 2013, 9:55 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Finding a job also is not just an exclusive challenge to immigrants.

I know people who have moved to Toronto from Vancouver and had a terrible time blaming the network thing and lack of contacts.

My advice is don't expect to walk into your dream job off the bat on arrival in Canada. By all means give it ago but be prepared to get your foot in the door with something lesser and that will make it easier to build the network and contacts.

I read somewhere on here a while ago that you should be prepared to set your career back a year or two. Unfortunately people like you to prove your self all over again and have "Canadian Experience". It is a reality that some people don't like to face.

Personally I wouldn't move to Canada purely based on work opportunities and jobs but that is because I would be better of financially in London in my profession. Work is one factor of many and I am lucky I benefit from other upswings.

If you are heading to Alberta my first concern would be can you cope with the weather and changes in lifestyle that that will bring.
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Old Dec 3rd 2013, 2:21 am
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by JamesM View Post
Finding a job also is not just an exclusive challenge to immigrants.

I know people who have moved to Toronto from Vancouver and had a terrible time blaming the network thing and lack of contacts.

My advice is don't expect to walk into your dream job off the bat on arrival in Canada. By all means give it ago but be prepared to get your foot in the door with something lesser and that will make it easier to build the network and contacts.

I read somewhere on here a while ago that you should be prepared to set your career back a year or two. Unfortunately people like you to prove your self all over again and have "Canadian Experience". It is a reality that some people don't like to face.

Personally I wouldn't move to Canada purely based on work opportunities and jobs but that is because I would be better of financially in London in my profession. Work is one factor of many and I am lucky I benefit from other upswings.

If you are heading to Alberta my first concern would be can you cope with the weather and changes in lifestyle that that will bring.
Sweet potato fries and birds then?

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Old Dec 3rd 2013, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by rvwestfalia View Post
Everyone is gonna have a different experience, but it does seem striking to see so many cab drivers who were dentists and university teachers and other such examples of highly qualified people working in a totally unrelated field which they probably don't find nearly as fulfilling and stimulating.
I've been in a lot of taxis in Toronto. I've rarely had a driver who was literate in English so I wonder, do you speak a lot of languages and, if not, how do you know that the drivers are highly qualified in fields unrelated to cab driving?
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Old Dec 3rd 2013, 1:43 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by rvwestfalia View Post
Sorry, that wasn't my experience.
My dentist is from Iran, his assistants are from China and Afghanistan. My previous dentist was from South Africa, his hygenist from Brazil so I don't think it's impossible for aliens to succeed in oral matters.

What would you say prevents dentists from jumping out of the taxis they're driving and setting up shop in the tooth business? What, specific to them being immigrants I mean, obviously one needs financing.
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Old Dec 3rd 2013, 3:53 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

Originally Posted by rvwestfalia View Post
When you come here with kids, you can't afford to go to school or pass expensive exams and not work. Someone has to put food on the table.
I'm bound to ask why someone who has children and fulfilling and stimulating work where they are would move to Canada, I'd think only people in dire straits where they are would consider such a drastic option.

I'm extremely doubtful of the claim that there are large numbers of people who have usable skills in their home countries driving taxis in Toronto. The taxi drivers I've met who were doctors were so only because they had a doctorate, they couldn't actually stick a broken leg back together, while the medical professionals I've met have almost all been immigrants. I expect somewhere there's a refugee who fled the operating room just ahead of the rebels and wound up driving a cab but there aren't hordes of them.

It may well be that there are lots of people who find their work in Canada is unfulfilling and makes poor use of their potential but that's just the nature of work; most people are wasted doing what they do, at home or abroad.
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Old Dec 3rd 2013, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?

[QUOTE=dbd33;11018673]I'm bound to ask why someone who has children and fulfilling and stimulating work where they are would move to Canada, I'd think only people in dire straits where they are would consider such a drastic option.

I'm extremely doubtful of the claim that there are large numbers of people who have usable skills in their home countries driving taxis in Toronto. The taxi drivers I've met who were doctors were so only because they had a doctorate, they couldn't actually stick a broken leg back together, while the medical professionals I've met have almost all been immigrants. I expect somewhere there's a refugee who fled the operating room just ahead of the rebels and wound up driving a cab but there aren't hordes of them.


It may well be that there are lots of people who find their work in Canada is unfulfilling and makes poor use of their potential but that's just the nature of work; most people are wasted doing what they do, at home or abroad.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a very valid point. How many of us can claim we were completely satisfied with our jobs and careers in the UK (I can't speak for other countries/persecution etc)? How many left well paid, fulfilling positions with a mapped out future, promotion, pay rises etc? How many have left this simply in the hope that they will land an equivalent or better role here in Canada? For most I think the truth is that they felt unfulfilled in their professional positions in the UK and strived for something better over here; only to find that the grass isn't greener and then resent the fact.

As an aside, it is possible to secure good roles. It is not entirely a closed shop. My wife, for example, having been instrumental in setting up our business in Canada for the first 2 years, then decided to maximise her skills set back in the mainstream market. She's now the Director of Finance for a multi-million dollar organisation. I realise this isn't everyone's experience, but I think it is fair to point out that it is not impossible.

If you persevere there are likely to be more opportunities than if you stop trying and just blame the system. It's not always easy, but then things worth fighting for often are.

I think it was Arnold Palmer who said "The harder I practice the luckier I get".
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