Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

After reading a post on here from a few years ago asking similar questions, I would just like to state that this thread IS NOT a wind up, I can no longer access the post, hence starting a new one.
For about a year now, after failing medical checks to enable me to get in the British Army, day in, day out, I have been considering moving to Canada. I have no children and have worked with horses for around 8 years now, and began working with them full time when I left school 3 years ago, working in different sectors from eventing, livery (boarding) stables and breeding studs. I have finally settled into a small family run racing yard. My boss has agreed to help me gain my qualifications for the management of racehorses and breeding. If I were to move to Canada will my qualifications be recognised there or will I have to undergo the training all over again?
My partner has been in the same job since he left school 6 years ago, he is a farm worker and has tractor, trailer, and JCB licenses. Again, will those licenses be recognised there?
I also read an article titled 'Don't make the mistake of moving to Canada, it's a fools paradise' this is one of the paragraphs; '''My advice to people who are itching to migrate to Canada to give a better future to their children is this: Think hard before you take any decision and don’t fool yourself by painting a rosy picture in your head. You may end up working in factories, call centers, security agencies, Tim Horton’s or packing factories. You will lose your savings. Your will lose your morale and self-esteem. Tensions will destroy your marital and family life. Finally, if you are lucky enough, you may get an entry-level job and then pay someone else’s mortgage while living in their basement as you dream of buying your own little nest.'''
I wouldn't enjoy sitting in an office earning however many thousands. I plan on working with horses, earning enough to live comfortably and my partner wants to stick to working on farms. Is this something that is achievable? I have my heart set on relocating to the Alberta area. Sorry for the long post, but I would love to hear from someone who has successful made a move to Canada and is happy with the decision. :)

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I have made a move to Canada and I am happy

Have you watched "Heartland" it is a horse based soap based over here, I think it's in Canada?

It is as close to horse work as I have seen on TV. But they fall off a lot.

http://www.cbc.ca/heartland/m/site/

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I feel sure what you describe has happened to some who have moved to Canada, and probably some who have moved to the UK. Those who are disgruntled will often blame everything and everyone but themselves.
There are plenty who have migrated and been successful and are happy with their decision. I did it 20 years ago and would do it again.

Work on the basis that qualifications gained overseas will not be recognised. Some occupations will require a little extra trainng or requalification others will require a lot. It also depends how much experience you have. Foreign qualitfications with 10-15 years experience is going to help a lot more than only 1 or 2 years on the job.

Horse racing is not a big thing in Canada. Spruce Meadows in Calgary is worth a look.

Many have found they have to take whatever they can get for a few years and eventually work up to where they want to be. A few are fortunate enough to drop straight into their chosen career path (a minority).

If under 30, come on an IEC, take 2 years to see if you like it and if not, it was part of life's experiences. Take all the opportunities you can get, you never know when it is your last.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I fit into the "worse thing I ever did" category

However, now, 6yrs on things are stabilized I have ventured on a totally different career path and been successful at it - Life is good but holy cxxp when through the grinder to get there!!!

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I know of Spruce Meadows because it's a venue for show jumping. It may be that they also have races there but, if so, I don't think that's widely known.

Horse racing, flat, pacers and trotters, has long been a big deal in Ontario but is in crisis. In short, off track gambling here isn't based around horses but American football and it's not at all legal, horse racing tracks used to do ok because you could legally bet on course but not off and once upon a time people bet on the horses. However over the past couple of decades VLT machines have become the standard at race tracks; the horses have run because gambling has been legal if they're there but no one has paid much attention to them, they just provide the cover for the no arm bandits.

Recently the government has decided to allow a casino in Toronto. That's the end of the road for horse racing; the bettors at the tracks are bussed from Toronto and ignore the horses, if they can bet at home there's no need for the track. So, racing is out. There's still a serious jumping scene here but, of course, one needs a well hyphenated name in order to get a leg up.

Yeah, that's Ontario, Alberta may be different. I'd say not.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

The article that you cited sounds like a bunch of sour grapes from someone who wasn't able to adapt. I did it in 1969 and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Like Joe Jackson says "Life's been good to me so far".

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Having just read the original article (which appeared in a blog trying to look like a newspaper), it seems that the writer of it was a teacher and her husband did something in construction.

Perhaps they should have done their research first.

:p

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

''My advice to people who are itching to migrate to Canada to give a better future to their children is this: Think hard before you take any decision and don’t fool yourself by painting a rosy picture in your head. You may end up working in factories, call centers, security agencies, Tim Horton’s or packing factories. You will lose your savings. Your will lose your morale and self-esteem. Tensions will destroy your marital and family life. Finally, if you are lucky enough, you may get an entry-level job and then pay someone else’s mortgage while living in their basement as you dream of buying your own little nest.''

errrmmmm....so, painting a rose picture is a dumn thing to do anyways, 'cos chances are that you'll still be doing the same sh**e wherever you live....same mortgage, same bills, same day in - day out routine.....if your 'career' is as a doctor, dentist, lawyer, engineer or any other profession, chances are that you will end up in a similar roll and yep, you may have to re-train in your field, even though you've done it for donkeys years but remember, you live in Canada now with Canadian culture, so be flexible...I ended up doing a job I've never done with a huge pay increase!!!......and who really cares if you work in a factory, or timmies, or a call centre.....lose your savings!!!! to whom? careless I say!!!......tensions will un-doubtable run high in the marital home and yep, it did with us...almost divorce but strength shone through and now we are stronger than ever but hey, that would probably have happened wherever you live, right....as to a high mortgage, don't try and live in an area that you wouldn't have lived in in the uk!!! in other words, don't expect to move from the eastend to Chelsea right?......morale of the story, stay focused and be realistic.....up side, fabulous place to raise your kids, great community spirit practically where ever you live in Canada if you want it to be and always, always a warm welcome....quality of life is like the UK was forty years ago.....:thumbsup:

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Spruce is jumping, not racing. Hastings park on the west coast has racing, but it is not a big thing.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

To the OP: there are no guarantees that it will work out. It doesn't work out for some people, and it's not always their fault (ignore those who claim it is).

Canada is not an easy place to be poor in. The social safety net is pretty shit. Just something to bear in mind.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

To the OP,

I don't think horseracing is a big thing in Canada, certainly we've been in Calgary for about 18 months now and I've never heard of any racing on a commercial scale similar to the UK. As someone else noted, there is Spruce Meadows but it's show jumping and seems to have a fairly short season (I guess due to weather).

My 5 cents worth, if you want to work in horse racing the UK would probably be better than Canada as there seems to be more of it. However, if you want to give Canada a go and are prepared to be flexible on work then why not. BUT, don't come over thinking it's Nirvana; it's not, it's probably neither better nor worse than the UK overall, and we've certainly found both likes and dislikes compared with the UK.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I'd be concerned about passing the medical to get into Canada if you did not pass a medical to get in the army.

Other than that take a Work Holiday Visa or what ever it is called now and try it for a year. if you like it stay for another year and look into the PR process.

People have different experiences. The word "Rollercoaster" and "For the kids" come up an awful lot. At least the second one doesn't apply to you so there is less risk.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Better if they're said in the Geordie language. :thumbup:

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Whereas horse racing isn't a big sport in Canada, breeding programs for race horses certainly exist (and for many other disciplines of horsemanship). These friends of mine have an excellent reputation http://todmtnthoroughbreds.com/about_us.html and an ex neighbour breeds and trains reining and cutting horses for rodeo and working ranches.

I moved over here and owned an equestrian facility (livery for 50+, Western and English lessons, clinics and competition). It's perfectly feasible to earn a living and a decent lifestyle if you want to work with horses.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I wouldn't. There are rather different criteria.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I think the important thing is to do your research - that's something that I and my ex-husband didn't do enough of (and one reason our marriage failed). I also think people who moved to Canada 20 years ago had a very different experience from people who have moved in more recent years (just my perception).

Re: the medical - it is quite a thing to get through so I would look into whether you can pass it if you have not been able to get through other medicals.

My experience of Canada has been painful - some of that is due to decisions I made and some of it has been the situations I've found myself in. One thing I would say is that if you immigrate there is a possibility that you may have to start your life all over again in terms of career and getting entry into the job market is very challenging (hence it's good to do research and find out exactly what opportunities are out there for the area you are interested in working in and what the educational requirements are).

My ex-husband has had a very good experience of Canada. My experience has been very different. We moved for his job (he had a job to go to) - if you can do that, it may cut out a lot of heartache.

In terms of horses, the Ontario racing industry has been very negatively affected by government changes - so I would suggest exploring Alberta to see what the opportunities are there.

Good luck.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

How so?

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

At the risk of being flamed by people who moved 20 years ago (who may argue very differently), the sense I have (which was backed up by what I was taught on my social work degree) is that new immigrants are more highly qualified now but are often stuck in poorly paid entry level work (or poorly paid minimum wage contract work). And entry into the labour market is much more challenging - employers demand more (in terms of educational credentials) and income inequality has meant that people are paid a lot less (relative to the living costs of many years ago where the pay difference was not so great).

In addition to these points, the huge thing I have noticed compared to the UK is the lack of transparency in the labour market. My experience in Ontario has been that it's who you know not what you know that counts when it comes to getting a job - and this can be very difficult for new Canadians who don't have the deep rooted connections that individuals who have grown up in their local communities have.

Some I think would argue that the same holds true for the UK but when I worked in the UK I found the job market pretty transparent and I never had much of a problem getting work - whereas I've been told that 80% of jobs in Ontario are unadvertised. Related to this is the fact that so many employers demand certain qualifications but even if those are obtained (and at great cost), it's still the personal connection that counts in terms of getting work.

My experience may also reflect the fact that I live in a relatively small insular city but it's been a huge challenge for me to find employment - and that can cause a huge strain on relationships if one hasn't talked around the money issues if one partner can't get a job or jobs are hard to come by.

Volunteering is a big way in to getting "canadian experience" and getting paid work but it's not guaranteed - so it's really important to do your homework in terms of moving and job opportunities (as well as cost of living).

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I don't disagree with you, however, if someone comes to Canada with professional skills that are in demand and there is a shortage of, then the outcome would be different to that which you (and I) have experienced.

:)

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Pretty much how it was 20 years ago then. Success is still down to adaptability and graft. If you want it you got to go out and get it. Some can some can't.

In my profession new immigrants have the same level of education as they did 20-30 years ago, what does count is industry experience. This holds true anywhere.

Jobs being unadvertised is not about transparency of any kind. It is about availability of labour. Job hunters here will cold call, submitting resumes on the off chance of a job, companies will accept resumes and hold them. Then there are contacts people have in an industry.

When there is an adequate supply of labour on file, there is no need to advertise, an unnecessary cost and waste of time.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Aviator immigrants do less well now than they did years ago. This is a fact.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11f0019...008319-eng.pdf

Just look at some of the chapter headings. "The deteriorating low-income position of recent immigrants" "the credentialism issue" etc.

our own government admits there is a problem with underemployment of recent immigrants.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I don't think this is a uniquely Canadian thing. There has been a hollowing out of the labour markets in most advanced economies with concentrations in a relatively small number of extremely well paid jobs and a much larger number of extremely badly paid jobs. Middle income jobs are declining so many new immigrants end up fighting for the the badly paid ones.

On the transparency thing yes, there is some truth in that. However, in the UK you were on the inside looking out, now you are on the outside looking in. You see things from a different perspective. It is not that much different in the UK. The Old Boy network is still alive and well.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I still think there is a shortage of "head down arse up" people and too many who think everyone owes them a lifestyle and a living, and people who don't want it bad enough to put themselves out to get it, maybe I'm just intolerant of people who fail because they won't step out of their little bubble of what they had in the uk, it's different, it's Canada, roll up your sleeves and get on with it, get a job before you come then you have some security, All the info you need and peoples experiences are plastered all over the Internet nowadays, I know people have bad luck, I currently am being slightly stiffed by my company but it's a means to an end, get dug in and make it work, sorry slightly grumpy today, bye

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

You'd probably be best advised to google horse racing/breeding in Canada (or Alberta specifically as the provinces often have their own rules for such things) and find out who the professional governing bodies are so that you can put these questions regarding recognition of qualifications directly to them.

Aside from the medical requirements, have you checked that either yours or your partner's occupations are "eligible occupations" for the purposes of obtaining visas?

If you just wanted to work with horses, not necessarily racing or breeding, but more along wrangler lines, something you might not have thought of is the "dude ranches" here, especially in B.C. and Alberta. Again, just google it and you'll see the multitude of ranch resorts here.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Finding a job also is not just an exclusive challenge to immigrants.

I know people who have moved to Toronto from Vancouver and had a terrible time blaming the network thing and lack of contacts.

My advice is don't expect to walk into your dream job off the bat on arrival in Canada. By all means give it ago but be prepared to get your foot in the door with something lesser and that will make it easier to build the network and contacts.

I read somewhere on here a while ago that you should be prepared to set your career back a year or two. Unfortunately people like you to prove your self all over again and have "Canadian Experience". It is a reality that some people don't like to face.

Personally I wouldn't move to Canada purely based on work opportunities and jobs but that is because I would be better of financially in London in my profession. Work is one factor of many and I am lucky I benefit from other upswings.

If you are heading to Alberta my first concern would be can you cope with the weather and changes in lifestyle that that will bring.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Sweet potato fries and birds then? ;)

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I've been in a lot of taxis in Toronto. I've rarely had a driver who was literate in English so I wonder, do you speak a lot of languages and, if not, how do you know that the drivers are highly qualified in fields unrelated to cab driving?

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

My dentist is from Iran, his assistants are from China and Afghanistan. My previous dentist was from South Africa, his hygenist from Brazil so I don't think it's impossible for aliens to succeed in oral matters.

What would you say prevents dentists from jumping out of the taxis they're driving and setting up shop in the tooth business? What, specific to them being immigrants I mean, obviously one needs financing.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I'm bound to ask why someone who has children and fulfilling and stimulating work where they are would move to Canada, I'd think only people in dire straits where they are would consider such a drastic option.

I'm extremely doubtful of the claim that there are large numbers of people who have usable skills in their home countries driving taxis in Toronto. The taxi drivers I've met who were doctors were so only because they had a doctorate, they couldn't actually stick a broken leg back together, while the medical professionals I've met have almost all been immigrants. I expect somewhere there's a refugee who fled the operating room just ahead of the rebels and wound up driving a cab but there aren't hordes of them.

It may well be that there are lots of people who find their work in Canada is unfulfilling and makes poor use of their potential but that's just the nature of work; most people are wasted doing what they do, at home or abroad.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

[QUOTE=dbd33;11018673]I'm bound to ask why someone who has children and fulfilling and stimulating work where they are would move to Canada, I'd think only people in dire straits where they are would consider such a drastic option.

I'm extremely doubtful of the claim that there are large numbers of people who have usable skills in their home countries driving taxis in Toronto. The taxi drivers I've met who were doctors were so only because they had a doctorate, they couldn't actually stick a broken leg back together, while the medical professionals I've met have almost all been immigrants. I expect somewhere there's a refugee who fled the operating room just ahead of the rebels and wound up driving a cab but there aren't hordes of them.

It may well be that there are lots of people who find their work in Canada is unfulfilling and makes poor use of their potential but that's just the nature of work; most people are wasted doing what they do, at home or abroad.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a very valid point. How many of us can claim we were completely satisfied with our jobs and careers in the UK (I can't speak for other countries/persecution etc)? How many left well paid, fulfilling positions with a mapped out future, promotion, pay rises etc? How many have left this simply in the hope that they will land an equivalent or better role here in Canada? For most I think the truth is that they felt unfulfilled in their professional positions in the UK and strived for something better over here; only to find that the grass isn't greener and then resent the fact.

As an aside, it is possible to secure good roles. It is not entirely a closed shop. My wife, for example, having been instrumental in setting up our business in Canada for the first 2 years, then decided to maximise her skills set back in the mainstream market. She's now the Director of Finance for a multi-million dollar organisation. I realise this isn't everyone's experience, but I think it is fair to point out that it is not impossible.

If you persevere there are likely to be more opportunities than if you stop trying and just blame the system. It's not always easy, but then things worth fighting for often are.

I think it was Arnold Palmer who said "The harder I practice the luckier I get".

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I have no idea if those qualifications will be recognized here but I just Googled and read that article (I live in the same city as the person who wrote it). What an absolute load of crap!

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Not to mention the extended Premier League coverage was 3 x 3pm kick off's on a Saturday to choose from.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Whoever wrote that missive is living in Vancouver by the sounds of it.

There are lots of horse-related jobs in Alberta, whether you would be able to get one or are qualified for one is another question.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I competed internationally and returned to my home in Canada with grandiose dreams of building a riding lesson and training business. What I discovered is that you worked long and hard three months of the year and starved for 9 months of winter. Even with a heated indoor arena, people did not want to go out in the dark snowy cold night after dinner to get to the barn...

I then decided to move to the southern USA and built a 12 month lesson, training and showing business. I am able to book tons more lessons at twice he price of Canada, year round.

It's very possible to do it in the USA, really tough in Canada.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

I beg to differ. I moved here and purchased a 32 acre property that backed onto Crownland. I had an oversized indoor arena, 2 outdoor arenas, stabling for 28 horses indoors and individual paddocks for a further 20+. I had a waiting list for livery space, held 60+ lessons per week, shows, clinics and recreational riding.

The winter was by far the busiest time. The indoor arena was open 7am - 9pm and in pretty much constant use. Summertime many riders and their horses were away for days at a time competing. Livery income didn't really change year round.

Lessons were $35-150 per hour depending on the instruction, the arena was rented by the half or full day for events at $250/500, with at least 2 events per month.

Yes, the hours are long, the work is hard but as I posted earlier it's perfectly feasible to build a viable equestrian business here.

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Hi Emmajay

I used to frequent this forum a lot when I was super depressed about living in Canada but I found it only made me more home sick so have not been here for a long while. I saw your post and wanted to offer my thoughts.

I am a BHSII (my husband is a farrier) and before moving to Canada in 2008 I ran large riding schools in the UK. No such luck here and not for want of trying! The horse industry in Canada sucks. It is highly discombobulated, unregulated with very low standards. Any credentials you come with mean nothing, the previous comments on it being who you know not what you know are absolutely true and even more so within rural occupations and most deffinetly within the farming community. I have lived in Nova Scotia, Alberta and currently am in ontario....the work is still very limited. Now of course there are jobs out there shovelling poop for $11/hr and for excercize Riders at the track....woodbine is the predominant race track in Canada in ontario but do not be lulled into thinking the industry is anywhere close to that in the Uk. To get an idea of the jobs available you can check out equine Guelphs website (job track), the equestrian management group forums (emg) and that's about it!!!! Olds college in Alberta also has a jobs board worth looking at.

I am afraid I am one of those miserable folk who regrets setting foot in this country however I made my bed and I will be Lieing in it until 2015 when we can finally go home! Living here is hard and making a go of it in the horse industry is seriously tough....especially since it is only seasonal....all the race horses and competitive horses ship down to Florida for the winter.......there are no competitions here until May!!!

Although Canada is not for me I am happy to help in anyway I can so feel free to message me if you want!!

Re: Moving to canada.. Wise choice?
 

Just saw your reply RICH and I do not disagree and if I had the money to buy a property I am sure I could have developed a business that would break even....not sure how viable....but still if buying a place is not possible, career possibilities in the horse industry are very slim!