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Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quarantine

Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quarantine

Old Feb 14th 2021, 12:33 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post

To date there is no understanding how the $2000 came about for 3 nights?
It's a weird figure, I'll give you that. It's been a few years since I stayed in an airport hotel but the last time I did was in Narita in 2015 and I think it was like $40 US per night.

So let's factor that a PCR test on arrival would cost $200 CAD, it still leaves you with $1800 or $600 per night. Now obviously you're staying full board and that $40 US I paid was in Japan and not Canada but even then it seems very steep.

What also isn't clear is what would happen after the test result comes through. I personally arrived at YYZ on Wednesday night and received a free test covered by the government of Ontario. The negative result came through on Friday morning so had I have been in hotel quarantine at the time then I would have been free to leave.

Now what would happen if I said "well I've paid for three nights so I want three nights"? Is that option available or is it the case that you're out on your arse once you're confirmed negative so they can make way for the next person?

I think it's pretty self evident that people with negative results are subsiding those with positive results who will have to remain under government supervision or care for the entire period. What would annoy me is if I was a new immigrant who suddenly had to find $10,000 to cover the process for his family just to subsidise a Canadian returning from a holiday in Cancun they weren't really supposed to be on in the first place.

Of course it's also possible the $2000 was an arbitrary figure designed to deter people. They launch the reservation website later this week so the actual prices might differ or depend on what's available although the cheapest options in Toronto and Vancouver (assuming it's not all flat rate) will sell out in no time.
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Old Feb 14th 2021, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I somewhat agree with you there. I don't think it's fair for the Canadian tax payer to collect the tab for other people's hotel stays and that's exactly what has happened so far when citizens and PR's have returned without any kind of plan.

What I object to is charging new immigrants and people returning from essential travel. I think that's a bit unfair and especially when the same rules aren't going to be applied at the land border. I'm quite sure refugees will receive some sort of help to cover the cost.
The land border is going to have the same rules applied, I'm sure I've read that somewhere. For air travel the govt website currently says "People who travel for non essential reasons such as vacation" i would interpret that to mean that immigration, returning from working abroad, caring long term for parents as essential. Some would be open to interpretation but hopefully tgere will be clear guidance. I wouldn't count travel to a funeral s essential. If, heaven forbid, a family member was I'll I wouldn't travel to visit them. It wouldn't help them. Restrictions on travel within countries are severe too of course. I have a cousin whose husband died suddenly just before Christmas and she's been alone since then. Unbearable anguish, I can't imagine her days now, she has friends who she can walk with but family are too far away to visit.

So many people are suffering in so many different ways.

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Old Feb 14th 2021, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am using the word "fascism" in relation to the forced payment of $2000 for something I didn't do and would initially not be designed against my intention. The regulation is obviously introduced against holidaymakers, and yes and agreed, for those it can and will be seen as a deterrent.

However a possible returning citizen, returning to Canada after life overseas ( able to prove so by tax documents and bills ) will be forced to pay the bill. If they don't like that, they have to stay outside the country, even though they are citizens and it's their country. This is what I feel is punishment of the wrong crowd, and that has in my sentiments fascist trademarks. Sentiments and feelings are different for everyone of us. I even perceive it as negative that you're using the word "obsession" and "laughable", especially as Alberta seems to have workable solution, however not certain how long it lasts.

To date there is no understanding how the $2000 came about for 3 nights? How long this regulation will be in place? And what kind of criteria would have to be met, in order for this to be discontinued? A vaccination certificate? A certain incidence rate? A certain infection rate? One can only guess........ Also there is no knowledge how long the "Alberta option" will be there, and under what kind of criteria this will be stopped?
"Non essential travel", I'm pretty sure that a returning citizen who has been working abroad won't be subject to this 3 day hotel quarantine.
The application process for hotels to tender is now over. Is it reasonable to think that this request for proposal will result in clarification of costs?Perhaps the $2000 is a figure used as a maximum expected and then when the hotels come back with lower figured these are compartivky acceptable? The government could certainly be clearer.

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Old Feb 14th 2021, 5:33 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
What I object to is charging new immigrants and people returning from essential travel. I think that's a bit unfair and especially when the same rules aren't going to be applied at the land border. I'm quite sure refugees will receive some sort of help to cover the cost.
I have the solution. Those for whom the travel was essential should be the ones to pay.

If it's a business trip, the employer should pay.
If the individual has been head hunted then the employer should pay.
If the immigrant (or returnee) has made a personal choice to emigrate (return) then the immigrant (returnee) should pay and it's all part of the costs of their decision, just as the other fees would be.

(I'd probably build something in for exceptional cases where hardship might exist)

Last edited by BristolUK; Feb 14th 2021 at 5:36 pm.
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Old Feb 14th 2021, 7:21 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Hi

Originally Posted by bats View Post
The land border is going to have the same rules applied, I'm sure I've read that somewhere. For air travel the govt website currently says "People who travel for non essential reasons such as vacation" i would interpret that to mean that immigration, returning from working abroad, caring long term for parents as essential. Some would be open to interpretation but hopefully tgere will be clear guidance. I wouldn't count travel to a funeral s essential. If, heaven forbid, a family member was I'll I wouldn't travel to visit them. It wouldn't help them. Restrictions on travel within countries are severe too of course. I have a cousin whose husband died suddenly just before Christmas and she's been alone since then. Unbearable anguish, I can't imagine her days now, she has friends who she can walk with but family are too far away to visit.

So many people are suffering in so many different ways.
1. With 117 land border crossings it is extremely unlikely the same rules will be applied to Air arrivals. Although you still have to come up with a plan for Quarantine on admission.
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Old Feb 14th 2021, 8:48 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



1. With 117 land border crossings it is extremely unlikely the same rules will be applied to Air arrivals. Although you still have to come up with a plan for Quarantine on admission.
There will be 16 border crossings that will do COVID testing for those required to do so. People who travel for work, truckers, and so on don't need to have a COVID test on arrival so they get to use the other crossings. Unless they make this more well known there are going to be a lot of angry people who have to drive to another crossing. I would not want to be a CBSO officer.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...to-canada.html

Last edited by bats; Feb 14th 2021 at 9:00 pm.
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 12:43 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by bats View Post
The land border is going to have the same rules applied, I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gov...irds-1.5897643
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 1:40 am
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That's a bit old though, over a week!t The guys argument about that it won't happen because of the number of land crossings doesn't wash as there will only be 16 crossings that travellers who must get a COVID test on arrival can use.

I must have been mistaken about the 3 day hotel stay as i cant find any links for that.
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 8:01 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Hi

Originally Posted by bats View Post
That's a bit old though, over a week!t The guys argument about that it won't happen because of the number of land crossings doesn't wash as there will only be 16 crossings that travellers who must get a COVID test on arrival can use.

I must have been mistaken about the 3 day hotel stay as i cant find any links for that.
1, The instructions are you need a negative covid 19 PCR within 72 hours prior to entry (certain exceptions). Travelers will not be limited to 16 border crossing, Here is the actual quote

"In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine. The Government of Canada will run 16 testing sites at point of entry across Canada. Five ports of entry will initially be available (see below) with 11 additional as of March 4 (see below). The Government of Canada is also working to supply all other ports of entry with test kits for travellers to take to meet these requirements."

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...to-canada.html
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 10:47 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



1, The instructions are you need a negative covid 19 PCR within 72 hours prior to entry (certain exceptions). Travelers will not be limited to 16 border crossing, Here is the actual quote

"In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine. The Government of Canada will run 16 testing sites at point of entry across Canada. Five ports of entry will initially be available (see below) with 11 additional as of March 4 (see below). The Government of Canada is also working to supply all other ports of entry with test kits for travellers to take to meet these requirements."

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...to-canada.html
Precisely. There is absolutely no mention of hotel quarantine for land arrivals in the official statement from last week. Considering the measures were supposedly introduced to catch returning snowbirds, that seems a little rich.

So an immigrant family flying in from a country where $2000 could easily represent several month's salary will be forced to cough up for hotel quarantine whereas a retired Canadian couple returning with a loaded car from a few months in Kissimmee will not. Heck even those tourists who have travelled to the Caribbean and Mexico via the US to get around recent flight cancellations from Canada will likely be able to get away with it. They'd just need to hire a car from somewhere near the border.
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 5:33 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi

1, The instructions are you need a negative covid 19 PCR within 72 hours prior to entry (certain exceptions). Travelers will not be limited to 16 border crossing, Here is the actual quote

"In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine. The Government of Canada will run 16 testing sites at point of entry across Canada. Five ports of entry will initially be available (see below) with 11 additional as of March 4 (see below). The Government of Canada is also working to supply all other ports of entry with test kits for travellers to take to meet these requirements."

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...to-canada.html
I wonder if that is indicating they are only going to allow 16 points of entry for land crossings from March 4th as the test on arrival will be mandatory.. until they get the test kits issued.
Perhaps they are reserving some land crossings for essential goods transportation, where no check would be required?

Five Land Ports of Entry with onsite testing as of February 22, 2021

Douglas, British Columbia
Coutts, Alberta
Queenston-Lewiston Bridge, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario
St. Bernard de Lacolle (Highway 15), Quebec
St Stephen 3rd Bridge, New Brunswick

Additional 11 Land Ports of Entry with onsite testing as of March 4, 2021

Ambassador Bridge, Windsor, Ontario
Blue Water Bridge, Point Edward, Ontario
Emerson West Lynne, Manitoba
Fort Erie (Peace Bridge), Ontario
Huntingdon, British Columbia
Lansdowne (Thousand Islands Bridge), Ontario
Pacific Highway, British Columbia
Rainbow Bridge, Niagara Falls, Ontario
St-Armand, Quebec
Stanstead (Route 55), Quebec
Windsor-Detroit Tunnel, Ontario
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Old Feb 15th 2021, 6:32 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Hi

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
I wonder if that is indicating they are only going to allow 16 points of entry for land crossings from March 4th as the test on arrival will be mandatory.. until they get the test kits issued.
Perhaps they are reserving some land crossings for essential goods transportation, where no check would be required?

Five Land Ports of Entry with onsite testing as of February 22, 2021

Douglas, British Columbia
Coutts, Alberta
Queenston-Lewiston Bridge, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario
St. Bernard de Lacolle (Highway 15), Quebec
St Stephen 3rd Bridge, New Brunswick

Additional 11 Land Ports of Entry with onsite testing as of March 4, 2021

Ambassador Bridge, Windsor, Ontario
Blue Water Bridge, Point Edward, Ontario
Emerson West Lynne, Manitoba
Fort Erie (Peace Bridge), Ontario
Huntingdon, British Columbia
Lansdowne (Thousand Islands Bridge), Ontario
Pacific Highway, British Columbia
Rainbow Bridge, Niagara Falls, Ontario
St-Armand, Quebec
Stanstead (Route 55), Quebec
Windsor-Detroit Tunnel, Ontario
1. Unlikely, note there are no POEs listed for Alaska/BC/Yukon, and only 2 listed Huntingdon (lower mainland) and Ontario.
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Old Feb 19th 2021, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Is anyone else amazed at how little criticism Trudeau is getting over the vaccine rollout? I watch the news in the evening and read the newspapers here in Vancouver, and the general impression is that everyone is doing their best, and it'll all be over when it's over.

Can you imagine The Guardian headlines if Boris Johnson had only vaccinated 1.3m people? Britain has vaccinated more people in 3 days than Canada has since Mid-December.

Why does nobody oppose Trudeau?
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Old Feb 19th 2021, 5:47 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by nickchallis92 View Post
Is anyone else amazed at how little criticism Trudeau is getting over the vaccine rollout? I watch the news in the evening and read the newspapers here in Vancouver, and the general impression is that everyone is doing their best, and it'll all be over when it's over.

Can you imagine The Guardian headlines if Boris Johnson had only vaccinated 1.3m people? Britain has vaccinated more people in 3 days than Canada has since Mid-December.

Why does nobody oppose Trudeau?
He has managed nothing short of a hole in one. A first-class coup by convincing the public that everything is the fault of the public for not following guidance and has demonised international travellers to the point of excess. Don't get me wrong, chastising a 20-something for pissing off to Cancun for a week during a pandemic is reasonable but victimising immigrants and people who have no choice but to travel is the very epitome of a dick move. I'm a member of a couple of social media newcomer groups and many of them are tearing their hair out. They've been told by the IRCC that extending their COPR's would mean re-taking medicals and if they fly in they now face a quarantine bill of $2000 each plus the costs to cover them after the first 3 nights. Essentially, they're screwed and left out of pocket either way.

Of course though this is Canada. It might well be the case that people don't agree with his policies or anything he says but will still keep their opinions quiet to preserve the status quo.
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Old Feb 19th 2021, 7:53 pm
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Default Re: Moved from Covid Quarantine > Political posts on the subject of Covid Quaran

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
He has managed nothing short of a hole in one. A first-class coup by convincing the public that everything is the fault of the public for not following guidance and has demonised international travellers to the point of excess. Don't get me wrong, chastising a 20-something for pissing off to Cancun for a week during a pandemic is reasonable but victimising immigrants and people who have no choice but to travel is the very epitome of a dick move. I'm a member of a couple of social media newcomer groups and many of them are tearing their hair out. They've been told by the IRCC that extending their COPR's would mean re-taking medicals and if they fly in they now face a quarantine bill of $2000 each plus the costs to cover them after the first 3 nights. Essentially, they're screwed and left out of pocket either way.

Of course though this is Canada. It might well be the case that people don't agree with his policies or anything he says but will still keep their opinions quiet to preserve the status quo.
The medical requirement is nothing new... it's been the case for years that if you needed to be issued with a new COPR or there was a delay in you being able to 'land' you had to have a medical. The cost of a medical is peanuts compared to paying $2000 per person (? unknown yet) for a hotel. The costs after the 1st 3 nights are no different than if they were flying in without the hotel part - they would still need to stay in a self contained place for 14 days.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...ravellers.html

They are still saying 'unless exempted' so perhaps they will bring something in to help with costs regarding hotels for those who have no choice - i,e their COPR's are about to expire or similar. It's a wait and see scenario until they publish the details in full... although I wouldn't be too happy about having to phone to book a hotel - how do you find out the costs before booking (some hotels are supposed to be cheaper, in theory.. though being at the airport that's unlikely - cheapest normal booking for Toronto was around $180 a night for a room for 2 adults + 2 children (no meals or transportation etc.,). Surely they must mean $2,000 per room??
. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...s-booking.html
Hotel stopover bookings are managed by American Express Global Business Travel and available by phone only. To book your mandatory 3-night hotel stopover, call 1-800-294-8253.

Last edited by Siouxie; Feb 19th 2021 at 8:08 pm.
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