Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

misery at Vancouver housing cost?

misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Old May 10th 2016, 10:37 pm
  #361  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Almost Canadian's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,043
Almost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
Agreed that there will always be some areas up and some down, and hence why statistics tend to use averages. Those numbers are the average UK. The London numbers are eye watering (Westminster 12x in 2002 and 24x in 2014). Vancouver would also be eye-watering unless you know many people who got a 30% increase in salary from last year. Housing is becoming more expensive across the board and that flows out to burbs. In reality it is simple economics, global population increases increasing demand and building of new homes has no where near kept pace.

Higher prices lead to higher rents (although I agree the increases are not nearly as sharp and that's partly due to legislation) and that traps younger generations into rental (paying so much in rent they cant afford to save the deposits for a mortgage (unlike those in the late 90's early 00's who had option of 100+% mortgages). This means they tend to be paying the same in rent as they would be with a mortgage but not gaining the benefit for equity. The early gen Y and late gen x are likely to lack adequate retirements savings, it isn't saving anyone money its deferring it to much larger costs in the future. Remember no one pays for their own government pensions they are paid from the generation before with the current generation paying for those retired now.
I believe that I am paying for my government pension in Canada. Am I wrong?

I plan to have a great retirement because I live within my means and I am putting lots into various retirement plans. I see a vast cross section of the finances of Calgary's population. I never cease to be horrified by how many have so little put away for their retirement. It seems that many prefer to spend all they have now, and then some, to keep up with the Joneses. No doubt, when their retirement comes around, they will be bitching about how the "government" should assist them. They won't look in the mirror when they are asked why they are in the position they are in.
Almost Canadian is offline  
Old May 10th 2016, 11:01 pm
  #362  
BE Forum Addict
 
Engineer_abroad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,706
Engineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I believe that I am paying for my government pension in Canada. Am I wrong?

I plan to have a great retirement because I live within my means and I am putting lots into various retirement plans. I see a vast cross section of the finances of Calgary's population. I never cease to be horrified by how many have so little put away for their retirement. It seems that many prefer to spend all they have now, and then some, to keep up with the Joneses. No doubt, when their retirement comes around, they will be bitching about how the "government" should assist them. They won't look in the mirror when they are asked why they are in the position they are in.
No that's not how it works, Soicial insurance, security or what ever you want to call it is and always has been an inter-generational transfer of wealth. Your payments don't go into an indiviudla acocunt with your name on it it goes into a global account used to pay current pensions. Think about it, the rate at which pensions is paid is based on age of retirement and how many years you paid not how much you paid in. This may sound harsh, but this system worked when their was a larger death rate (money from those that died early paid the higher amounts for those that didn't) but with people living longer that extra money can only come from increased burdens on the current tax payer. The money for your retirement will come from the next generations RSP contributions and so on and so on.

'bitching about how the government should assist them' - You mean exactly like the current generation of retirees does when they complain of wanting the tripple lock to be reestablished or above inflation increases in pensions or the right to keep their homes when they need long term care? I admit I am talking more form a UK perspective here but I would be surprised if the Canadian system was fundamentally different.
Engineer_abroad is offline  
Old May 11th 2016, 12:51 am
  #363  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Almost Canadian's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: South of Calgary
Posts: 13,043
Almost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond reputeAlmost Canadian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
No that's not how it works, Soicial insurance, security or what ever you want to call it is and always has been an inter-generational transfer of wealth. Your payments don't go into an indiviudla acocunt with your name on it it goes into a global account used to pay current pensions. Think about it, the rate at which pensions is paid is paid in. This may sound harsh, but this system worked when their was a larger death rate (money from those that died early paid the higher amounts for those that didn't) but with people living longer that extra money can only come from increased burdens on the current tax payer. The money for your retirement will come from the next generations RSP contributions and so on and so on.
I defer to your greater expertise but it was my understanding that, in Canada, one contributes to one's own fund, albeit one that it is held centrally. I accept that the UK one has always been paid by those that are currently working.

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
'bitching about how the government should assist them' - You mean exactly like the current generation of retirees does when they complain of wanting the tripple lock to be reestablished or above inflation increases in pensions or based on age of retirement and how many years you paid not how much you the right to keep their homes when they need long term care? I admit I am talking more form a UK perspective here but I would be surprised if the Canadian system was fundamentally different.
I believe that people should be responsible for their own situation. Therefore, if one doesn't provide for one's own retirement, they have no one to blame but themselves. Obviously, there should a safety net for those that are unable to do so but having the latest vehicle in one's drive, rather than saving for one's retirement is, IMHO, not a valid reason to expect one's neighbours to have to fund one's retirement.
Almost Canadian is offline  
Old May 11th 2016, 1:48 am
  #364  
BE Forum Addict
 
Engineer_abroad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,706
Engineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I believe that people should be responsible for their own situation. Therefore, if one doesn't provide for one's own retirement, they have no one to blame but themselves. Obviously, there should a safety net for those that are unable to do so but having the latest vehicle in one's drive, rather than saving for one's retirement is, IMHO, not a valid reason to expect one's neighbours to have to fund one's retirement.
Absolutely agree, but for that to work there has to be a fair and level playing field to begin with. i.e. asking an asset poorer current generation to pay more to support the current field of asset richer retirees or close to, thereby preventing that younger generation from contributing to their own pensions is not a sustainable way of ensuring people can save for the retirement.

The locking out of many from the housing market removes a huge segment of what people often use as retirement funds. This is then combined with the fall in interest rates which hurts those without property based retirement assets the most.

The real issue here is that more housing stock is required to level the supply/demand curve and cool the market. As I have said this isn't necessary about a market burst in which house process drop but a stagnating of house prices whilst wages catch back up.

If things don't change in Vancouver soon the city will become a Disney land with only the top 5% or so being able to live there. this will make it almost impossible for the city to offer basic services. As I see it BC government has 2 choices 1) cool the market or 2) diversify the jobs market across the region.
Engineer_abroad is offline  
Old May 11th 2016, 9:35 pm
  #365  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,471
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
Absolutely agree, but for that to work there has to be a fair and level playing field to begin with. i.e. asking an asset poorer current generation to pay more to support the current field of asset richer retirees or close to, thereby preventing that younger generation from contributing to their own pensions is not a sustainable way of ensuring people can save for the retirement.

The locking out of many from the housing market removes a huge segment of what people often use as retirement funds. This is then combined with the fall in interest rates which hurts those without property based retirement assets the most.

The real issue here is that more housing stock is required to level the supply/demand curve and cool the market. As I have said this isn't necessary about a market burst in which house process drop but a stagnating of house prices whilst wages catch back up.

If things don't change in Vancouver soon the city will become a Disney land with only the top 5% or so being able to live there. this will make it almost impossible for the city to offer basic services. As I see it BC government has 2 choices 1) cool the market or 2) diversify the jobs market across the region.
Some good points.

Interesting read about the equality gap: Generation rent: can your landlord be your friend? | Cities | The Guardian
Shard is offline  
Old May 11th 2016, 10:05 pm
  #366  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,471
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Interesting article, wonder how often these sorts of things happen in Canada? Everyone we know except 1 couple is in the same boat we are, the one couple who owns does rent out their basement suite, but its not pet friendly, we inquired as the location is good, and the rent they charge (600) is good as well, but they would not budge on the pet rule.

They are both well off in career jobs, where the rest we know are either single income, or on disability.

I did notice one thing in the article, those who bought and are now renting out all seemed to have gotten money from family in one form or another.

I wonder if those folks didn't have the family help financially if they could buy?



We would gladly buy with family if that option existed.
That's the crux of the article, that in parts of Britain (London, etc) that it's only those young people from a more affluent background that are going to be able to get on the property ladder, and that the high rents are only going to exacerbate any wealth disparities.
Shard is offline  
Old May 11th 2016, 10:27 pm
  #367  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25,688
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Pretty much the same in Vancouver and some suburbs I would imagine.






Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's the crux of the article, that in parts of Britain (London, etc) that it's only those young people from a more affluent background that are going to be able to get on the property ladder, and that the high rents are only going to exacerbate any wealth disparities.
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old May 12th 2016, 1:20 am
  #368  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25,688
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

One example of why it's hard for people to relocate from Vancouver and Toronto, jobs.




Toronto, Vancouver are creating all Canada's job growth - Business - CBC News
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old May 12th 2016, 3:55 pm
  #369  
BE Forum Addict
 
Engineer_abroad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,706
Engineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Some good points.

Interesting read about the equality gap: Generation rent: can your landlord be your friend? | Cities | The Guardian
Nice article, (especially for the Guardian ). I agree that the common theme is that the younger generation who have bought have done mostly on the back of money given to them by the older generation. i.e. wealth is being accumulated by those with existing wealth (so much for trickle down economics). What is also indicates is that many of those who were given money for the deposits cant actually afford the mortgage without renting out to people (because they had deposits). On the other hand their renters are more than capable of paying the mortgage but because they are locked into paying for someone else's asset they cant amass the huge sums required for their own deposits.

It isn't just the UK or Canada seeing this. the following paper shows that the Gen X and Y have less net financial worth than previous generations (when they were the same age).
http://inequality.stanford.edu/_medi...enerations.pdf
In particular look at the 29-37 age rage (study was in 2013). This group of Gen Y/X (born mid 70's to mid 80's and often call the MTV generation) are the most impacted, no surprises given they were the generation told they had to go to university and graduated with massive debt right into the global financial meltdown and who's wages stagnated for years.
Engineer_abroad is offline  
Old May 12th 2016, 11:59 pm
  #370  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 18,216
Former Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond reputeFormer Lancastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Things can't be that bad in Vancouver as even a student can afford to buy a house.
Vancouver mansion sold by Canaccord founder for record $31.1 million now owned by ‘student,’ records show | Financial Post

The majority owner of a Point Grey mansion that was sold earlier this year by Canaccord founder Peter Brown for a record $31.1 million is a “student,” property records show.
Mortgage documents attached to the land title papers show that a mortgage of $9.9 million was taken out by Zhou and Feng from the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce on April 28. The bi-weekly payments are listed as $17,079.41.
Former Lancastrian is offline  
Old May 13th 2016, 12:05 am
  #371  
I need a walk
 
Stinkypup's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: Okanagan
Posts: 4,895
Stinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond reputeStinkypup has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Things can't be that bad in Vancouver as even a student can afford to buy a house.
Vancouver mansion sold by Canaccord founder for record $31.1 million now owned by ‘student,’ records show | Financial Post

The majority owner of a Point Grey mansion that was sold earlier this year by Canaccord founder Peter Brown for a record $31.1 million is a “student,” property records show.
Mortgage documents attached to the land title papers show that a mortgage of $9.9 million was taken out by Zhou and Feng from the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce on April 28. The bi-weekly payments are listed as $17,079.41.
Slightly more upmarket than our student terraced houses was in Edge Hill, Liverpool then.
Stinkypup is offline  
Old May 13th 2016, 3:58 am
  #372  
Somewhere
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 35,782
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Hi All.

You will maybe notice that I have moved several posts from this thread about Vancouver housing costs into a thread of their own.

This is because they became more of a conversation about one person's plight , rather than general chat about the topic. So to keep this thread clear. I have moved them

Thanks

Thankyou.
BEVS is offline  
Old May 13th 2016, 7:20 pm
  #373  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,471
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
Nice article, (especially for the Guardian ). I agree that the common theme is that the younger generation who have bought have done mostly on the back of money given to them by the older generation. i.e. wealth is being accumulated by those with existing wealth (so much for trickle down economics). What is also indicates is that many of those who were given money for the deposits cant actually afford the mortgage without renting out to people (because they had deposits). On the other hand their renters are more than capable of paying the mortgage but because they are locked into paying for someone else's asset they cant amass the huge sums required for their own deposits.

s.
Thank goodness 100% mortgages are creeping back in - that should help some younger people get on the ladder.
Shard is offline  
Old May 13th 2016, 7:55 pm
  #374  
BE Forum Addict
 
Engineer_abroad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,706
Engineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond reputeEngineer_abroad has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Thank goodness 100% mortgages are creeping back in - that should help some younger people get on the ladder.
Especially where they can prove they have been making rent payments for a significant period which are far in excessive the mortgage payment.
Engineer_abroad is offline  
Old May 15th 2016, 1:00 am
  #375  
Just Joined
 
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 18
JanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond reputeJanJoplin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Aviator View Post
However you don't know what other people deal with daily, have dealt with and the way they deal with it. Many others have their challenges and demons. Maybe, be glad you are not living in their shoes! Sometimes we have to take what we have, as it is all we have. Better to be thankful for what we have and can do than dwell on all the things we don't have and cannot do.

Some folks overcome adversity, some won't let themselves move forward. Many people struggle though daily life, often those with nothing to smile about are the most cheerful.

It can be a fight, a struggle, but if you don't fight and face the struggle, what else is there?

This guys life changed in a flash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Weston
Aviator, I heard about you. Glad to come across you at last, apparently you are one half of a famous duo.
JanJoplin is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.