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misery at Vancouver housing cost?

misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Old Dec 2nd 2015, 1:31 pm
  #256  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Only the top income earners can own a house in Vancouver if buying today, so I imagine they probably have the money to cover the taxes....
What happens in high value markets generally is that the people who inherit houses in gentrified areas are squeezed out because the value of the house is such that they can't pay the property taxes. I imagine this works somewhat differently in vacation destinations and in Vancouver. If the property owners live abroad and want the property for an annual week in the sun or as a bolt hole in case trouble at home then they likely only want enough rent to break even, hence expensive properties with low rents.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 2:30 pm
  #257  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Vancouver Regent Hotel tenants fight for heat, hot water - British Columbia - CBC News

Apparently residents have gone a while without hot water and heat.
Is that the same place you posted about before?
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 3:14 pm
  #258  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, the property taxes impact everyone directly (owners) or indirectly (renters)...there is a practical limit to how much a landlord can charge a tenant, before that tenant decides she would be better off purchasing a cheaper property and paying the taxes.
Or renting somewhere else.

This is a subject that always annoyed me a little. Unrelated to Vancouver, of course.

Here in New Brunswick property taxes are effectively doubled if the owner doesn't occupy. I can kind of understand it if a home wasn't housing someone full time, but not where a home is someone's home.

That aside, there's a view that this "double taxation" is a cost borne by tenants and the increases are passed onto them.

Not so.

To begin with, the tax bill arrives about April with the new amount being due from January. You can't backdate a rent increase.

Even if you can feasibly increase the rent by the tax increase divided by 12, with the notice required you're already on the hook for 6 months of the higher rate.

A year after I bought my rental the taxes went up so much that something like a $50 rent increase would have been necessary. Impossible even without today's high vacancy rates.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 3:54 pm
  #259  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Or renting somewhere else.

This is a subject that always annoyed me a little. Unrelated to Vancouver, of course.

Here in New Brunswick property taxes are effectively doubled if the owner doesn't occupy. I can kind of understand it if a home wasn't housing someone full time, but not where a home is someone's home.

That aside, there's a view that this "double taxation" is a cost borne by tenants and the increases are passed onto them.

Not so.

To begin with, the tax bill arrives about April with the new amount being due from January. You can't backdate a rent increase.

Even if you can feasibly increase the rent by the tax increase divided by 12, with the notice required you're already on the hook for 6 months of the higher rate.

A year after I bought my rental the taxes went up so much that something like a $50 rent increase would have been necessary. Impossible even without today's high vacancy rates.
What do you mean where a "home is someone's home"? It either is (occupied) or it isn't (after some grace period of non occupation).
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What do you mean where a "home is someone's home"? It either is (occupied) or it isn't (after some grace period of non occupation).
Or it's a holiday home. Like 'the cottage' that's empty apart from weekends and the occasional week in summer.

I can understand the additional taxes on the place that's unused most of the time. Providing it would otherwise be habitable year round and isn't just a beach hut or something.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:11 pm
  #261  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Or it's a holiday home. Like 'the cottage' that's empty apart from weekends and the occasional week in summer.

I can understand the additional taxes on the place that's unused most of the time. Providing it would otherwise be habitable year round and isn't just a beach hut or something.
Why? On the assumption that property taxes are to pay for local services why should somebody, that is not using those services, pay more that someone that is?

Is this an envy tax?
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Is this an envy tax?
Maybe a better term would be "progressive". If you can afford multiple houses then you get taxed more on the ones you don't live in.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:32 pm
  #263  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Why? On the assumption that property taxes are to pay for local services why should somebody, that is not using those services, pay more that someone that is?

Is this an envy tax?
It depends. It is sometimes used to discourage under occupation in areas where there is a housing shortage. London would do well to introduce this kind of system, for example.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:34 pm
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It depends. It is sometimes used to discourage under occupation in areas where there is a housing shortage. London would do well to introduce this kind of system, for example.
Doesn't the council tax already do this?

Edit: apparently not.

Last edited by Alan2005; Dec 2nd 2015 at 4:37 pm.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:39 pm
  #265  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Doesn't the council tax already do this?
Part of the problem is the rates are quite low in relation to the property value, so even if the council tax rises due to under occupation, it doesn't act as a serious disincentive.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Part of the problem is the rates are quite low in relation to the property value, so even if the council tax rises due to under occupation, it doesn't act as a serious disincentive.
Well, you can same the same for Vancouver probably. Although property taxes where I live are over double the council tax I used to pay and that's with a home-owner discount (houses are similarly valued).
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:53 pm
  #267  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Well, you can same the same for Vancouver probably. Although property taxes where I live are over double the council tax I used to pay and that's with a home-owner discount (houses are similarly valued).
Kensington & Chelsea top band is £2124 p.a.. Even if that were to double it would be nothing to someone owning a £1MN vacant investment flat.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 4:58 pm
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Kensington & Chelsea top band is £2124 p.a.. Even if that were to double it would be nothing to someone owning a £1MN vacant investment flat.
Maybe. Although you would be relying on appreciation > 2% p.a otherwise it's not much of an investment is it. Might as well leave the cash in the bank
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 5:13 pm
  #269  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Why? On the assumption that property taxes are to pay for local services why should somebody, that is not using those services, pay more that someone that is?

Is this an envy tax?
Since I am paying the double taxation I don't think envy comes into it.

However, the reality is that in this province the powers that be have decreed that where the owner doesn't reside in the property, the taxes are doubled. Technically there are two elements to the property tax, one of which is rebated where you occupy, effectively doubling the amount payable.

There's no reason to charge double if there's a renter living there instead of an owner. The renter doesn't produce more garbage than an owner; have more fires; get broken into; borrow more books from the library; need a wider road; want different traffic lights etc etc

There is, perhaps, a cost to society in having a property suitable for housing and not using it for housing.


Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Maybe a better term would be "progressive". If you can afford multiple houses then you get taxed more on the ones you don't live in.
And it's not unique to this province or this country.
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Old Dec 2nd 2015, 5:56 pm
  #270  
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Default Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?

Can get way nicer houses in Phoenix area for what we pay in rent per month. That might be our sulution to BC housing issue.

One house super nice with pool. Mortgage and taxes about 920 month.

Sold last in 2011 for 92k now listed for 159k but still affordable.
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