misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Jun 22nd 2015, 9:02 pm
#46
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
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Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
The problem is that a lack of affordability can create a lack of livability. Every home owner wants their house value to go up after they've bought. None ever think about the impact on their surroundings when certain groups of people can't afford to get onto the same property ladder.
Serious problems can arise when people (especially those providing essential services e.g. teachers, healthcare workers, law enforcement, firefighters etc) can't afford to live within a reasonable commute of their jobs. Businesses can also have trouble attracting workers.
Many will make the argument that this is self-correcting and that the free market will determine prices. For example, no-one will want to live somewhere if adequate essential services are not being provided and so housing costs will fall. But it's not always as simple as that. Local government also needs to do its part by making sure that development is smart, transportation is in place and different housing options are available.
Serious problems can arise when people (especially those providing essential services e.g. teachers, healthcare workers, law enforcement, firefighters etc) can't afford to live within a reasonable commute of their jobs. Businesses can also have trouble attracting workers.
Many will make the argument that this is self-correcting and that the free market will determine prices. For example, no-one will want to live somewhere if adequate essential services are not being provided and so housing costs will fall. But it's not always as simple as that. Local government also needs to do its part by making sure that development is smart, transportation is in place and different housing options are available.
Jun 22nd 2015, 10:27 pm
#47
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Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
I don't necessarily agree with you that it was easier for us ...........
smaller amounts involved, yes ....... but our salaries were also MUCH smaller than what people are paid now. So percentage-wise ........ about as much of our money had to go towards finding the down payment and the mortgage payments
OH was then earning about $9000-10,000 a year ........... now people in the equivalent positions are earning over 10x that a year. I was in a year-by-year always likely to be laid off research position that brought in less than $5,000.
Buying a house back then was not exactly easy .......... we had many months when there were more days left than we had money. Entertaining friends to dinner meant spaghetti with meat sauce, and candles in old wine bottles.
BUT, we also did not insist on immediately buying the house we really wanted, we bought a house that we could just afford, and did not do any renos for several years.
Nor did we insist on having topline appliances or furniture ...... we made do with what we had collected during the previous 4 years, some of it second-hand, and bought as little extra as we could get away with. Friends loaned us 2 carpets until we could afford new.
In fact, the previous owners of the house took the fridge and stove with them (not usual here, as you know).
We carefully counted our money, and realised that we could only afford to buy one of those appliances before we moved in. We also could not afford to pay a moving company, so we had arranged a cadre of friends to help us ..........
the choice of appliance was thus made easy .......... a fridge to hold the beer for them to drink.
I cooked on a camp stove placed on boards over the kitchen sink, with the window above it wide open, until we could afford the range.
smaller amounts involved, yes ....... but our salaries were also MUCH smaller than what people are paid now. So percentage-wise ........ about as much of our money had to go towards finding the down payment and the mortgage payments
OH was then earning about $9000-10,000 a year ........... now people in the equivalent positions are earning over 10x that a year. I was in a year-by-year always likely to be laid off research position that brought in less than $5,000.
Buying a house back then was not exactly easy .......... we had many months when there were more days left than we had money. Entertaining friends to dinner meant spaghetti with meat sauce, and candles in old wine bottles.
BUT, we also did not insist on immediately buying the house we really wanted, we bought a house that we could just afford, and did not do any renos for several years.
Nor did we insist on having topline appliances or furniture ...... we made do with what we had collected during the previous 4 years, some of it second-hand, and bought as little extra as we could get away with. Friends loaned us 2 carpets until we could afford new.
In fact, the previous owners of the house took the fridge and stove with them (not usual here, as you know).
We carefully counted our money, and realised that we could only afford to buy one of those appliances before we moved in. We also could not afford to pay a moving company, so we had arranged a cadre of friends to help us ..........
the choice of appliance was thus made easy .......... a fridge to hold the beer for them to drink.
I cooked on a camp stove placed on boards over the kitchen sink, with the window above it wide open, until we could afford the range.
Back then people in modest jobs with modest incomes could also own, today only the top earners can.
Not saying it was easy, but it was more open to the average worker, where today it is not in more and more city's ownership is only available to the top earners.
10,000 income in 1975 is about the same as 44,000 today, but you cannot own a home in Vancouver if your making 44,000 a year these days, so I'd say it was easier back then considering you could buy a home.
On 44,000 a year, you will never own a home in much of the lower mainland.
Jun 22nd 2015, 10:34 pm
#48
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Not to go too much off topic but I'm less sure about that.
Admittedly we do get lots of leaflets from car dealers and restaurants, but the businesses must see some value in that or they wouldn't do it. I suppose they could do a deal with the newspaper/flyer delivery folk instead but they could do it now. I imagine there's a reason why they don't.
But we still get a water bill in the mail every 3 months (x2 for the home and rental) with no option to get the bills any other way. Property Tax (x2) and updates unless paid in full in one go rather than monthly.
Insurance statements/increase notices - half a dozen annually. My wife regularly got letters for various medical appointments and we'd both get regular letters relating to prescriptions insurance.
I have stuff that comes from the UK - pension statements, bank stuff, tax letters...
I have signed up for email contact/paperless billing etc wherever possible but there's still a fair bit of mail use.
Community mail boxes (what that's like in winter with the potential for frozen locks/doors and snowbanks one can only imagine) are on the way. Personally I'd rather see door deliveries reduced to alternate days or something instead of walking up the street just to see if anything's arrived and then again later since delivery times can vary enormously.
Admittedly we do get lots of leaflets from car dealers and restaurants, but the businesses must see some value in that or they wouldn't do it. I suppose they could do a deal with the newspaper/flyer delivery folk instead but they could do it now. I imagine there's a reason why they don't.
But we still get a water bill in the mail every 3 months (x2 for the home and rental) with no option to get the bills any other way. Property Tax (x2) and updates unless paid in full in one go rather than monthly.
Insurance statements/increase notices - half a dozen annually. My wife regularly got letters for various medical appointments and we'd both get regular letters relating to prescriptions insurance.
I have stuff that comes from the UK - pension statements, bank stuff, tax letters...
I have signed up for email contact/paperless billing etc wherever possible but there's still a fair bit of mail use.
Community mail boxes (what that's like in winter with the potential for frozen locks/doors and snowbanks one can only imagine) are on the way. Personally I'd rather see door deliveries reduced to alternate days or something instead of walking up the street just to see if anything's arrived and then again later since delivery times can vary enormously.
We do get parcels from time to time, but they don't deliver those to address here but to Shoppers Drug Mart or the Post office, so no need for a postal delivery person for that since the truck from the processing plant just drops off at those locations.
CP even says the volume of letter mail is dropping huge amounts year over year, so in the future, I doubt letter mail delivery will be the norm like we are used to now.
Jun 22nd 2015, 10:41 pm
#49
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
The problem is that a lack of affordability can create a lack of livability. Every home owner wants their house value to go up after they've bought. None ever think about the impact on their surroundings when certain groups of people can't afford to get onto the same property ladder.
Serious problems can arise when people (especially those providing essential services e.g. teachers, healthcare workers, law enforcement, firefighters etc) can't afford to live within a reasonable commute of their jobs. Businesses can also have trouble attracting workers.
Many will make the argument that this is self-correcting and that the free market will determine prices. For example, no-one will want to live somewhere if adequate essential services are not being provided and so housing costs will fall. But it's not always as simple as that. Local government also needs to do its part by making sure that development is smart, transportation is in place and different housing options are available.
Serious problems can arise when people (especially those providing essential services e.g. teachers, healthcare workers, law enforcement, firefighters etc) can't afford to live within a reasonable commute of their jobs. Businesses can also have trouble attracting workers.
Many will make the argument that this is self-correcting and that the free market will determine prices. For example, no-one will want to live somewhere if adequate essential services are not being provided and so housing costs will fall. But it's not always as simple as that. Local government also needs to do its part by making sure that development is smart, transportation is in place and different housing options are available.
You can't own without a 6 figure income, and with rents now averaging 1,300+ a month for an apartment, it's not possible for someone on 13-15 or so per hour to even rent.
Doesn't help though that the city idiots allow developers to come back and build nothing but more expensive houses and town homes, but not require any rentals to be built.
When habitat for humanity wanted to build some houses a few years back, they were denied a permit to do so, the council didn't feel it matched the community needs.
I almost think they want to turn this place into some sort of wealthy hippy utopia with no poor people.
Places renting for 700-800 18 months ago are going for 1,400+ now and we have renting bidding wars with people desperate so they are offering to pay more rent then is being asked just so they can have a place to live.
It's insane and doubt the new housing being built will solve the rental crises, most are town homes with no basement suites.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Jun 22nd 2015 at 10:45 pm.
Jun 22nd 2015, 10:45 pm
#50
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
They will soon be going the way of the US where many seem to be believe that the onus to save for the future is on you the individual, not the government.
Canada Post also seems to be trying to do away with the postie, as we know them ...... so they'll all be doing other jobs!
Jun 23rd 2015, 2:58 am
#51
Bex in the city
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,899
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Well in my case I wouldn't - if I did own a house in the UK and it was not for certain that I would/could stay then the last thing I would want is to have to move back to the UK and be without a house as the market has gone up.
Jun 23rd 2015, 2:44 pm
#52
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Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
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Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Buying can lead to problems too though. You're on the hook for major repairs. You can also be stuck with your property if values fall and you can't afford to sell (unless you walk away and ruin your credit history) or it just doesn't sell quickly enough. I know lots of people who had to pass up great employment opportunities simply because they couldn't sell up and move quickly enough.
Jun 23rd 2015, 3:05 pm
#53
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,847
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
If its that ****ing expensive then don't move there simples
Is Vancouver any different to London, New York, Tokyo and a host of other places.
I am one of those who chooses not to live in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary & Victoria due to the prices of housing. My job pays me the same salary regardless of where I live so those places are out.
So you can choose to get a job in Vancouver and expect to pay astronomical prices to own a home and in some cases rent or choose from several other cities where its not as expensive.
You can then complain about the rain and greyness once you move there
Is Vancouver any different to London, New York, Tokyo and a host of other places.
I am one of those who chooses not to live in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary & Victoria due to the prices of housing. My job pays me the same salary regardless of where I live so those places are out.
So you can choose to get a job in Vancouver and expect to pay astronomical prices to own a home and in some cases rent or choose from several other cities where its not as expensive.
You can then complain about the rain and greyness once you move there
Jun 23rd 2015, 5:14 pm
#54
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Buying can lead to problems too though. You're on the hook for major repairs. You can also be stuck with your property if values fall and you can't afford to sell (unless you walk away and ruin your credit history) or it just doesn't sell quickly enough. I know lots of people who had to pass up great employment opportunities simply because they couldn't sell up and move quickly enough.
Pro's and con's to both. We are not professionals, so would not be moving, owning would give us stability that renting does not have and would allow us to have a better life that renting could never provide.
Jun 23rd 2015, 6:50 pm
#55
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Most rentals require a lease, and while the amounts are smaller, breaking a lease can ruin your credit as well and even result in a lawsuit against you.
Pro's and con's to both. We are not professionals, so would not be moving, owning would give us stability that renting does not have and would allow us to have a better life that renting could never provide.
Pro's and con's to both. We are not professionals, so would not be moving, owning would give us stability that renting does not have and would allow us to have a better life that renting could never provide.
Jun 23rd 2015, 7:41 pm
#56
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
If its that ****ing expensive then don't move there simples
Is Vancouver any different to London, New York, Tokyo and a host of other places.
I am one of those who chooses not to live in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary & Victoria due to the prices of housing. My job pays me the same salary regardless of where I live so those places are out.
So you can choose to get a job in Vancouver and expect to pay astronomical prices to own a home and in some cases rent or choose from several other cities where its not as expensive.
You can then complain about the rain and greyness once you move there
Is Vancouver any different to London, New York, Tokyo and a host of other places.
I am one of those who chooses not to live in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary & Victoria due to the prices of housing. My job pays me the same salary regardless of where I live so those places are out.
So you can choose to get a job in Vancouver and expect to pay astronomical prices to own a home and in some cases rent or choose from several other cities where its not as expensive.
You can then complain about the rain and greyness once you move there
Lots of reasons why people can't move.
Jun 23rd 2015, 8:15 pm
#57
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,847
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
Also throw in the people from Europe especially the UK who are thinking of moving to Vancouver. There are 26 other countries they could move to a lot easier than Canada. The vast majority of these people are not in your situation so thats why I disagree. How many are miserable with London UK house prices?
How many commute over 200 miles a day to work there quite a lot though the UK transportation system is far superior to that of Canada.
Jun 23rd 2015, 10:04 pm
#58
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 127
Re: misery at Vancouver housing cost?
When my wife and I first moved to Canada in 2009, we lived in the green tower, second from the left of that photo, for 3 months. Nice little apartment (emphasis on little).
Jun 23rd 2015, 10:36 pm
#59
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Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,783
