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-   -   Making a will - DIY (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/making-will-diy-843805/)

BristolUK Sep 24th 2014 4:54 am

Making a will - DIY
 
I'm sure this has cropped up before but I can't find anything.

On a UK website I found this:

*In general you should only write your own will if your wishes are very simple, for example, if you’re married and:

you want to leave everything to your husband or wife, and
if they die before you, you want to leave everything to your children*

If there’s anything more complicated than that – for example, if you have step-children or you aren’t married to your partner – you should probably use a solicitor or a will writing service.
Does this hold true for Canada too? Are there "will writing services" in Canada. $400 to $600 seems a bit steep for the situation described when a kit from Staples can be had for less than $20 or for between $30 and $70, answering a few questions on various "legal document" websites seems to produce a simple will (with seemingly legal jargon) as above.*...*

Does anyone have any experience of DIY wills?

Atlantic Xpat Sep 24th 2014 4:58 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 
Isn't this something that will vary from province to province in Canada? Provincial legal frameworks being subtly different in each place?

Almost Canadian Sep 24th 2014 5:00 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11417156)
I'm sure this has cropped up before but I can't find anything.

On a UK website I found this:


Does this hold true for Canada too? Are there "will writing services" in Canada. $400 to $600 seems a bit steep for the situation described when a kit from Staples can be had for less than $20 or for between $30 and $70, answering a few questions on various "legal document" websites seems to produce a simple will (with seemingly legal jargon) as above.*...*

Does anyone have any experience of DIY wills?

I believe the quoted advice holds true either side of the Atlantic.

I have lots of experience of having to deal with DIY wills after death of the testator either side of the Atlantic. IMVHO, none of them were worth the amount saved by not using a lawyer.

Be very careful about a hand written will. It is only valid if it is written entirely in the hand of the testator. Filling in blanks in "will kit" does not satisfy this requirement.

There are will writing services available in Alberta. They are, of course, all non-lawyers. Why somebody would pay them to write a will is beyond me.

PMM Sep 24th 2014 5:14 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 
Hi



Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 11417170)
I believe the quoted advice holds true either side of the Atlantic.

I have lots of experience of having to deal with DIY wills after death of the testator either side of the Atlantic. IMVHO, none of them were worth the amount saved by not using a lawyer.

Be very careful about a hand written will. It is only valid if it is written entirely in the hand of the testator. Filling in blanks in "will kit" does not satisfy this requirement.

There are will writing services available in Alberta. They are, of course, all non-lawyers. Why somebody would pay them to write a will is beyond me.

The law firm we use, quotes $250.00 for a simple will, $450 for a couple, and $350 for seniors. Well worth the money to have it done properly.

BristolUK Sep 24th 2014 5:39 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat (Post 11417165)
Isn't this something that will vary from province to province in Canada?

The sites I have looked at appear to allow for that


Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 11417170)
I have lots of experience of having to deal with DIY wills after death of the testator either side of the Atlantic. IMVHO, none of them were worth the amount saved by not using a lawyer.

Do you think that varies according to the complexity?


Be very careful about a hand written will. It is only valid if it is written entirely in the hand of the testator. Filling in blanks in "will kit" does not satisfy this requirement.
That is certainly something that doesn't come across from what I looked at so far, thanks.


There are will writing services available in Alberta. They are, of course, all non-lawyers. Why somebody would pay them to write a will is beyond me.
Maybe they at least recognise what meets various legal requirements and can spot problematic areas? After all, people do pay extra to have their passport application done via the post office in the UK (assuming this is still a service provided) and benefit from the security that it's done properly.

Every would be immigrant to Canada is actively discouraged from using an immigration lawyer. Software helps with taxes - probably Tax Return services charge fees for using the same software people could use themselves.

Some folk buy/sell property on a DIY basis. :eek:

For a situation as described - the sole asset (the marital home jointly owned by husband and wife) passing to the surviving spouse or the named kids - is it not pretty straightforward and feasible to do via, say, legalwills.ca or lawdepot.ca?

Almost Canadian Sep 24th 2014 6:18 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11417219)
Do you think that varies according to the complexity?

I am confident that there have been many DIY wills that achieved what the testator intended them to achieve without issue.


Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11417219)
Maybe they at least recognise what meets various legal requirements and can spot problematic areas? After all, people do pay extra to have their passport application done via the post office in the UK (assuming this is still a service provided) and benefit from the security that it's done properly.

Every would be immigrant to Canada is actively discouraged from using an immigration lawyer. Software helps with taxes - probably Tax Return services charge fees for using the same software people could use themselves.

Some folk buy/sell property on a DIY basis. :eek:

For a situation as described - the sole asset (the marital home jointly owned by husband and wife) passing to the surviving spouse or the named kids - is it not pretty straightforward and feasible to do via, say, legalwills.ca or lawdepot.ca?

It all comes down to your risk tolerance. The incorrect use of words; the incorrect execution; the incorrect use of people (as I have indicated here before, in Alberta, nominating an out of Province executor creates unforeseen issues) etc.

The fees that PMM has referred to above are, IMO, not excessive for peace of mind. YMMV

JonboyE Sep 24th 2014 7:32 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 
I suppose you could see what happens in your province if you die intestate. The rules may meet your needs.

We paid something over $800, taxes and all the other charges lawyers manage to get on their bills all in, for two wills and two powers of attorney. It is a chunk of change. I rather hope Mrs. JonboyE will be upset when I turn my toes up so anything I can do now to make it easier I will do.

Alan2005 Sep 24th 2014 8:57 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 
These kind of discussions always make me think lawyering is one big scam. At least it is not there to protect people and is instead just self serving.

If you write your own will and it is obvious to a reasonable person what you meant then it should just be carried out. Lawyers shouldn't get to screw people just because you didn't follow their money grabbing rules.

iaink Sep 24th 2014 9:24 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 11417430)
These kind of discussions always make me think lawyering is one big scam. At least it is not there to protect people and is instead just self serving.

If you write your own will and it is obvious to a reasonable person what you meant then it should just be carried out. Lawyers shouldn't get to screw people just because you didn't follow their money grabbing rules.

Thats fine if all the family left behind are going to play along, but if one person challenged it then the lawyers will end up taking far more than it would have cost to make it watertight in the first place...

Its a minefield, you are damned if you do, and damned if you dont.

BristolUK Sep 24th 2014 9:45 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by iaink (Post 11417458)
Thats fine if all the family left behind are going to play along, but if one person challenged it then the lawyers will end up taking far more than it would have cost to make it watertight in the first place...

Which is why I included that specific example where it all goes to the spouse or to all the kids if the spouse has died too.

What is there to challenge? Who's left to challenge? Siblings of the deceased?

Alan2005 Sep 24th 2014 9:50 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11417476)
Which is why I included that specific example where it all goes to the spouse or to all the kids if the spouse has died too.

What is there to challenge? Who's left to challenge? Siblings of the deceased?

Wealth is being transferred and lawyers want their cut.

MillieF Sep 24th 2014 10:09 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 
These sort of threads make me think "Must Make Will". I really must, and I have to get round to one in Canada, had one in Europe, just not here. That's stupid. Thank you for reminding me Bristol.

JonboyE Sep 24th 2014 10:25 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 11417476)
Which is why I included that specific example where it all goes to the spouse or to all the kids if the spouse has died too.

What is there to challenge? Who's left to challenge? Siblings of the deceased?

In BC there are only three grounds for contesting a will:

i) because there is some flaw in the will itself (including the mental capacity of the testator)

ii) because the meaning of the will is unclear

iii) because the will does not make adequate provision for the deceased's spouse and dependents.

A lawyer can ensure i) and ii) doesn't happen. They can also give advice on on iii). iii) is the main reason wills are challenged. However, I don't think "leave everything to the spouse, and if they pre-decease me equally to the kids" leave much scope to challenge.

Alan2005 Sep 24th 2014 10:41 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 11417504)
In BC there are only three grounds for contesting a will:

i) because there is some flaw in the will itself (including the mental capacity of the testator)

ii) because the meaning of the will is unclear

iii) because the will does not make adequate provision for the deceased's spouse and dependents.

A lawyer can ensure i) and ii) doesn't happen. They can also give advice on on iii). iii) is the main reason wills are challenged. However, I don't think "leave everything to the spouse, and if they pre-decease me equally to the kids" leave much scope to challenge.

I had (have) a will in the UK which was pretty simple. I have never received a convincing reason why it wouldn't be valid here given it has the things that I'd want to happen written in it clearly enough to be understood by non lawyers.

BristolUK Sep 24th 2014 11:33 am

Re: Making a will - DIY
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 11417504)
...I don't think "leave everything to the spouse, and if they pre-decease me equally to the kids" leave much scope to challenge.

That's what makes me think $600 plus isn't worth it.


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