justkidding

What's so great about the outdoors anyway? Highly over rated in my opinion.

jossie

Your impression of the Okanagan is somewhat correct in that it is closer to the mountains than Guelph. We can be at the top of Apex Ski Mountain in 30 mins or less. However, a poor mans boulder - I think not Hell, even Govenor Arnie the Terminator has his vacation property here If you don't know what the Okanagan looks like then check out this cheesy vid as there are a few shots of the vineyards etc in there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXqKO...eature=related and check out this web page on the area http://www.hellobc.com/thompson-okanagan.aspx and another video with a few shots of the Okanagan in there for good measure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHcl8FFvDyY

jossie

The region produces some amazing award winning wines - try out See ya later ranch "Ping" or "Rover" if you like reds

jossie

You live a stones throw from some of the most beautiful, awesome, stunning back country in the entire World.

If you haven't figured out what's great about that by now then I guess I have no answer for you

dbd33

Boulder has lots of retired people. Boulder is in mountains. Boulder has vineyards. Boulder projects an image of eco-friendly spandex sportifs at odds with the redneck surroundings (so much so that it's known locally as the "Republic of Boulder"). People in Boulder are very aware of their vehicles and typically say they drive a Pious or a CJ7 while really getting around in a Subaru or F150. Boulder is so expensive that incomers are invariably trustafarians.

Isn't this very like the Okanagan except for the cost?

However, the idea that moving to the Okanagan is the resolution of the problems of people who prefer the UK to wherever they are in Canada fails, I think on several counts:

- some people don't like being outside

- some people who do like being outside don't like outdoor pursuits conducted in garish "technical" clothing, they'd rather walk up a path to the mountain top in an old coat than climb the cliff face in neon polymers

- the kind of outdoor pursuits mentioned are suitable only for the young and fit unencumbered by children (and yes I've seen children at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, causing misery for their parents and bystanders alike, but that only works while they're small enough to carry)

- some people like their outdoors wet and salty, Newfoundland is better for them

- to some people the beauty of the outdoors is all in the leaves, the east is better for them

- not everyone can find a job in the Okanagan

- a breath of fresh air doesn't resolve all problems. If someone has a dying parent in Wolverhampton and wants to be with that parent then none of Canada is any good to that person.

- none of the activities listed is available exclusively in the Okanagan, I know my daughter has recently participated in all of them + diving - hunting and ice fishing. She's also a nurse but rather than living in the boonies she lives on the DLR and gets to remote locations from the city airport. I fear that her approach costs the same as living in Boulder but it offers all that outdoors and pubs too.

I feel I should close this post with a reference to Emerson or Thoreau but, instead, here's a ode to staying home where it's safe and warm enjoying the casette player:

Norman Whitfield and Barratt Strong
Are here to make everything right that's wrong
Holland and Holland and Lamont Dozier too
Are here to make it all okay with you

...

When the world falls apart some things stay in place
She takes off the Four Tops tape and puts it back in it's case
When the world falls apart some things stay in place
Levi Stubbs' tears...

jossie

Is the Okanagan like Boulder? In some respects yes.
Mountains - Yes,
retired people - Yes,
vineyards - Yes
eco-friendly spandex sportifs at odds with the redneck surroundings - This made me chucle but No, people here certainly are not at odds with the surroundings and don't care about what they wear only that they dress for the practicality of what they are doing.
People in Boulder are very aware of their vehicles and typically say they drive a Pious or a CJ7 while really getting around in a Subaru or F150 - No, we drive a Dodge Ram Diesel purely because it is practical for our outdoor pursuits.

I'm not suggesting that the Okanagan is the resolution to people's problems that want to move to the UK but I am suggesting that the location people choose plays a huge part. Many people opt for areas where they can get the most bang for their buck in terms of property and land (we did the same back in the UK) but I can't stress enough how important location is. There are reasons why property is cheap in some locations and expensive in others. For us this is the first time in our lives that we picked a home solely based on location and it has made a profound difference. Different Provinces are like different countries here and the fact that you compare outdoor pursuits on the outskirts of the GTA with outdoor pursuits in BC is like comparing hiking through Sherwood forest in the UK with Hiking through the Alps. Yes they are both hiking but are they the same? Not at all and there is a reason one of them would feature in National Geographic and not the other. When you hike, bike, climb, ski, hunt or whatever, a large part of the experience comes from the terrain you are in. The waterfalls, the breathtaking views are like it or not what sets places apart.

As for the outdoor pursuits being only suitable for the young and unemcumbered? you should visit here during Ironman Canada when there are 70 & 80 year olds crossing the finish line. I ski at Apex mountain and there are vast amounts of people from age 2 up to age 70+ skiing and I often see older men and women snowboarding. My youngest is now 7 and he does all of the outdoor activities with us so I have to disagree with you on this.

ps. Nice poem and did I mention I LOVE living in BC?

Oink

There's a big meth problem in Kelowna and Kamloops I've heard but that seems to be typical of white rural North America.

R I C H

Can't comment on Kelowna, but I think suggesting it's a big problem in Kamloops is an overstatement. There's a drug culture here like any other city of this size, but a quick trawl of the local newspaper's website only finds a couple of meth related stories this year.

dbd33

Then I'm afraid your view of outdoor pursuits is rather at odds with mine. I try to leave nothing but footprints at to trek all rubbish out. Flattening the wilderness seems to me a bit short-termist.

Where did you live before?

I can't say I've hiked through Sherwood Forest, I know it's up north somewhere, I suppose it's like Epping Forest which is nice in the Autumn. I have hiked extensively in the Swiss Alps, they're like Boulder. I suppose I take your general point but if, to you, the magnificence of the surroundings is all, why not move to the Alps or, indeed, to Boulder? My guess is that central BC offers nice scenery and work whereas those places, while the scenery would be better, present barriers to working (visas, language and so on). I suppose the Okanagan is a compromise for you as wherever everyone else lives is a compromise for them. I think it's the element of compromise that keeps most posters from rampant evangenlism. Still, if Penticton, or wherever, truly is your Shangri-La, it must be quite nice to be there, lucky you.

Well, yes, if you can drive there in a big truck, you can take kids and dogs. I was thinking more of multi-day walks, such as one might take on the Bruce Trail or through the Chicago Basin. It's just a different view of "outdoorsy".

dbd33

I don't think meth is required to be a zealot for British Columbia, that's too harsh.

iaink

As Im sure you are aware there is quite a famous waterfall within spitting distance of the GTA... I forget the name, maybe you recognise it...



Canadas oldest provincial park is also on Torontos doorstep, and has a reputation for being rather beautiful. Its about half as large again as PEI, and the vast majority of it is inaccessible by road. People travel from around the world to visit, in fact its the pretty much the first direction sign you see on leaving Pearson Airport.


My ski area is only 15 minutes from either work or my front door, but Ill grant you its a little smaller

The point is that no one place is ideal for everyone, what one person loves, another can dislike...Its OK

Generally speaking if any one place was completely without redeeming features, no one would bother to live there.

jossie

We don't flatten the wilderness with the RAM - we just use it to gain access into many of the remote lakes via old disused logging roads or to get up to the Ski hill etc unless we are doing the hikes that go directly out of our property. For you to get to the start of your hike I am going to assume you don't need a 4 x 4 whereas it's a little different here in that you cannot get to the starting point of the hikes without a 4 x 4. There are massive networks of dirt roads here to get you close or into many great remote lakes and beauty spots. Once there we hike, bike etc. Often these will be multi day hikes with camping overnight but not always. We live by the same philosophy as you in that we always leave the wilderness as we find it and leave no trace of us being there. When we ATV or Snowmobile anywhere we try to use the designated trails mapped out by the local ATV clubs.

I'm envious that you have hiked through the Alps - would love to do it one day. It's on my bucket list along with hiking through trolltunga-Norway, kayaking through the grand canyon and many others. I get where you are coming from on the whole compromise thing as we have always compromised in the past until now.

jossie

Nice pictures Iain. We did visit Niagara falls when we did our recce to Ontario. The falls were beautiful except for the surrounding area. Niagara on the lake wine region was really nice too. We also travelled up to the Peterborough area and there were some nice lakes there. I don't disagree that no one place is ideal for everyone - even for us we are constantly looking to explore new places but the Okanagan provides a great base for us with a wealth of outdoor pursuits right in our backyard.

jossie

I haven't really came across this problem since being here and would think it is no different to other parts of Canada. The worst drug problems I saw were when we accidently drove through East Hastings in Vancouver - WOW was that an experience. It was almost like a movie set - people injecting right in front of us as we drove past etc.. Good for the teenagers to see the effects though. Lots of weed in the Okanagan or "BC Bud" as they call it which probably explains the laid back culture here

Oink

You’re right, whether it's Kelowna, Medicine Hat or North Bay, I think meth and hillbilly heroin use has become an epidemic in almost all poor rural white communities across the NA continent. Bigger more affluent cities obviously have their isolated problems as well.