Originally Posted by SANDRAPAUL

Toronto is the equivalent of London UK in terms of stature. It is the economic heart of Ontario if not Canada therefore prices will reflect this. But...
In Toronto you are quite right that homes can cost $600,000 and up quite easily but that is 10 times an average starting salary for a graduate who is Canadian and leaves a Candian University - and thats for a detached executive property with all the trimmings. In London UK you will find that a semi-detached in an average decent area will fetch £750,000 which is 25 times the average starting salary for a UK graduate. So there is a huge differential in the costs of where you live and what you pay. The fact that sadly you cannot afford $600,000 for a luxury home is I guess one of age and lack of assetts. Been there and got the T-shirt. It aint easy to start a life in any country without either family money or natural wealth behind you.

Up till the age of 22 my only experience of 'overseas' was one 2 week stint in Majorca with parents. Now it is perfectly normal for the average child from an average family to have been to Spain, France, Florida, Far East....

Perhaps this travel has given us all the bug to want to be somewhere we aren't? Moving to another country has to have rootes in some part of the fabric of your being and thinking it and doing it are a completely different matter. I bet many that do it shouldn't have and many that don't should have.

I personally would not have considered moving without a sizeable sum of money especially with children to consider. Where you live, what you appear to be and who you mix with has a profound affect on your children and their ability to carve a future. Whilst we are not rich our lifestyle has given our children confidence in themselves. We shoukd be bringing between $500,000-$600,000 with us so that should put us right in the middle of the Candian middle earners. Snob. No - just need to bee around like minded people who I hope we can settle with. If our options were to live in a low income box type area with drug and crime realted problems that all countries have I doubt I would risk my families security. It would be a better option to move to France, be part of Europe and all the problems that may encompass, but have a more relaxed lifestyle.

Ask this question. If the UK is the fourth richest country in the world why is it an agreed cross the board fact that the UK has a low average standard of living compared to other leading European countries. (One aspect I think is lifestyle of the 'European' Many live outdoors in warm sunshine for a good deal of the year. Families tend to be more relaxed when together outside the confines of walls. They also pass on more family to family. It is normal to live with parents who own or used to own the family property and once mum/dad pass on the property becomes to next person in the chain. Not as much emphasis on mortgages or property ownership) The UK is crowded, has one of the lowest rates of education for average school leavers as compared to other leading European countries (agreed by the current UK government so think how bad it really is), has the highest drug related problem in Europe, 2003-2004 (again official government statistics so it is worse) has one of the highest pay out rates for social security in Europe....

Wake-up time. How long does the sane person think it takes to change the direction of the countries financial situation. 1 Day, 1 Year, many years....?
It takes years. So who created the footing for the current bubble in the economy. Labour? New Labour? or was it Mrs Thatcher. Those who guessed last wins. When New Labour, who has a Thatcher worshiper at the helm, came to power there was actually a budjet surplus. Can you believe that?

And no I would not vote Tory now or Labour. I have no solutions. I am a dissolusioned person so it is no doubt my problem that all I can see are problems.

Guess what is the most important factor about todays society in the UK. Tony's third historic kiss my arse aint I wonderful term. All else is irrelevant. I think history will be written but not quite in the way someone wants it. Once the dogs are let loose some fireworks will fly.

Coming back to POOL's....If you property search which I am sure you did you will note there are many many homes listed with in-ground pools which are outside. This is a reflection of the summers that Ontario is supposed to get - not necessarily the fact that Ontario ooozes with money - it is part of the cultural difference. In the UK you can install a prefabricated in-ground pool with canopy for around £25,000. Whilst no more expensive than a car it is bad value for money as the weather throughout the year does not suit. And....the more pools that are bought brings the price down so I would think a pool is a natural part of being a middle earner in Canada as indeed it is in the US and Australia, and Spain, and France. Do we go on?

PS. I really should be doing something more useful.

Ramblings of an old man! Oh god is 43 old? Am I on the scrap heap already. Do I have nothing to offer the world.

Te He!

You're catching me up Eddie. I can just feel it!

Originally Posted by karenr

Hi we are another family heading to London .on.We are at the "getting desperately sick of waiting stage "Having recieved our aor in July 04 . Lots of reasons for us to choose london as listed by Chris Masters , also family connections . We can't wait to go and get on with our new life . and find out for ourselves if Canada is the right place for us .
I read this forum almost every day I don't post too regulary as someone usually has already put my point of view . I drive myself mad with questioning whether we are making the right decision on our future , especially when one of the more negative posts are up . But the truth of the matter is the only way I will ever know is to try , so although Going over with a clear view is vital and for that I am grateful ,to be told by people over there not to come ,is pointless as we all need to find out for ourselves .
We were in london last year and went to visit Tom and Chris Masters which was great They gave us lots of things to think about , but at the time were not in a very happy place and were actually saying a lot of the same negative things written on this forum. So to read Chris posts now which are so much more positive , speaks volumes to me .The initial year will definately be the toughest .But from the ever increasing list on here we will all be able to get together and offer each other a really good support system . Not a whinging Canadian bashing meeting but a positive group embracing what they still love about being British and what they enjoy in Canada , and maybe occassional niggles to get them off our chests!!!!!! Well thats what I would like .
Anyway thats my take
Good luck with your plans
Karen

Originally Posted by Tom Masters

Hi Karen

I didn't think I would have many positive things to say about Canada at all considering how we felt last summer!! It was very difficult to deal with the culture shock and difficult job situation as it made all the little things seem much bigger! Hearing others say exactly the same thing during the first few months that they are in Canada makes me feel more normal and I certainly sypathise!

Now I've come to accept some of the drawbacks about Canada - they can still annoy me sometimes, but we have definitely adjusted through the course of our first year here and they don't seem so big anymore. Homesickness has also worn off more now and I feel more nostalgic about what we left rather than desperate to get back!

It sounds like there are quite a few people coming to London which is great. It would be nice to meet up with others and I'm sure we could organise a get-together for anyone who wants to do that.

Chris

Originally Posted by deangb

Another factor is the increase in yob culture in the UK, i'm no shrinking violet but the language and abuse given by children as young as 10 or 11 is unbelievable, anyone travelling by London transport would agree. To be fair its just not the young, I dont want my children growing up in a place that even i'm beginning to feel afraid of.

Originally Posted by seacreature

Sorry I disagree.
The notion that house prices in Toronto or London for that matter are cheap should be dispelled immediately. They're not!!!!
I live in the east end of Toronto near Danforth. House prices here are extraordinary, 600K is typical. That's over a quarter of a million quid. The suburbs are cheaper, but not cheap by any means.
The cheap areas of Canada are usually the bits were no-one wants to live. You get more for your money here than in the UK, but a house with pool is not something most Canadians enjoy, only above average earners.
Remember also that house prices are usually relative. They're cheaper in London ON sure, but you usually earn less than you would in Toronto.