kellydrew

Hi Vixen

Please pardon my ignorance, but what does RORLF stand for?

Cheers

Drew

Interested

I know some people living on $40,000 - they are generally single living in rented apartments or some still live with their parents.

Quite honestly I don't think that a family of 4 could live on that amount in Toronto - at least not without a struggle, you'd have to be extremely fruggle. I really think the minimum would be about $55,000. Maybe you could get a part time job to supplement your husbands wage?

Judy in Calgary

Right of residence landing fee.

nfitz

Minimum $55,000? Without a car?

Looking at information from the last federal budget update - http://www.fin.gc.ca/ec2005/ec/eca4e.html someone earning $40,000 a year with two children (single earner) is paying only $449 a year in federal tax in 2006 (going up to $798 a year if the Tories carry out their threatened tax increase). Now this doesn't account for things like Tuition tax credits. So I think it's pretty safe to say, that the $40,000 won't be subjected to income tax. That's $40,000 after tax. Let's assume that rent is $1500 a month including utilities. That's $18,000 a year. That leaves $22,000 a year for food, clothes, phone bill, bus fares, insurance. We've talked about transit ... $200 a month max. That's $2,400 a year. Phone ... let's say $60 a month ... $750 a year. Insurance for renters ... what, $300 a year max? Food and sundries, now there's a challenge ... let's be generous. $250 a week (and I think one can do that for much less!). $12,000 a year. What's that come to? About $15,500. About $6,500 left for clothes and odds and ends. Not sure if adults need many clothes in a year ... personally, all I've bought in the last 12 months are 2 pairs of jeans, and 12 pairs of underwear (while in England ) And the low clothes prices in the dollar stores and Goodwill never cease to amaze me (though I can't ever bring myself to buying used clothes ... the snob I am). I think I've highballed these numbers a lot. Could probably even throw in some luxuries like basic cable ($26 a month plus 15% tax) for $400 a year (though I certainly know families who by choice don't have anything but dog-ears!) Am I missing anything major??

Nick

Novocastrian

Booze? Ciggies? Gambling? :scared:

kellydrew

Hi Judy

We've paid our Right of Permanent Residence Fee up front. Is that the same thing?

Drew

nfitz

Yeah, I guess that's why people complain welfare rates are too low ...

dbd33

Church. What if the family in question wanted to go to church? They couldn't put anything in the plate.

I think it's really irresponsible to suggest that people can live on this money. I have a former relative who lives in Scarborough, at Kingston Road and Lawrence, so not one of the better parts of Scarborough. She's a single parent and lives in a rent geared to income project. She has a two bedroom apartment in which one bedroom is rented to undocumented workers, that's a good source of income for her as anything on a T4 would put the rent up. Her declared income, as a legally designated poor mother of one, is a little under $30,000.

Again, I suppose four people could survive on $40,000 but make no mistake, that's poverty.

dingbat

On an income of just over $40k, I qualified for the heating grant with five kids. Poverty line? I'm actually below it on paper and I work full time.

Interested

what about CPP and EI contributions?

I think your estimates whilst looking good on paper wouldn't translate into the real word. What about saving for retirement, having savings incase of emergencies - taking the odd holiday, medical costs (if without insurance)!? I think a family trying to live on that income with 4 mouths to feed would need to bring a serious smount of savings with them or would end up living off a line of credit.

It's irresponsible to suggest that a family of 4 could live on $40,000 a year in Toronto. Some poeople don't have choice - but it sounds like the original poster does and I'd advise against it.

AnyaT

Do you actually live here? I ask because you seem to be living in a completely different city from me, and appear to know very little about the tax laws. You are kidding yourself if you think someone earning $40,000 will pay only $449 in federal tax every year (you also omit to mention provincial tax and various other levies such as the Ontario health premium). Obviously the exact amount will differ from person to person depending on how much they can manage to claim in rebates, but the real tax amount would be closer to $2500-3000. Of course, you would pay more than that throughout the year and then get the balance back after completing a tax return, so you would in reality have less to work with most months. I actually think it is quite irresponsible of you to claim the above tax amount of $449 to potenital immigrants who know very little about the system - or worse, make the fallacious statment that it will not be subjected to income tax.

I also think you have very little idea as to how much it would cost to feed, clothe and care for two small children. $250 would be quite a low estimate - unless of course you want to feed them the cheapest, unhealthiest crap you could find. While it is all well and good for you to say you have bought only jeans and underwear in the past year, I doubt you are growing through several sizes in one year and have to get new clothes every few months as young children would. I am not sure what other costs parents encounter as I do not yet have children, but am sure others could post a fulsome list of necessities, even besides sanity-saving items like the occasional toy or trip to the movies. And however much you might enjoy a cheap, gritty neighbourhood with "character", I very much doubt most parents would choose to bring their children up in one.

As stated before, it may be possible for a family to live on $40,000/year in Toronto - sadly there are many people who have to do it. But it does not make for a pleasurable life and I think it paints a false picture to a potential immigrant to state it does. I also ask that you refrain from making outrageous claims about tax levels that may lull people into a false sense of security.

Novocastrian

I repeat: Read the original post starting this thread. They are thinking of coming to TO for a year (or maybe two) on a post-doctoral fellowship. This is not a lifelong commitment. Postdoctoral fellows have a very good expectation of earning about twice that amount a couple of years down the line. You have to put in the time (productively) to get a decent shot at the academic position I presume is being aimed at. The Uof T is the second best university in Toronto (see another thread for details). It won't do any harm to live frugally for a couple of more years.

nfitz

I assume that's a joke. At worse 52 toonies a year is only $100 (and yes, I've certainly seen enough toonies in the collection plate on the very rare occasion I've been in a church). Besides, I would have thought the whole principal behind organized religion, is that the would give to the poor, not take away!

Wouldn't one be expecting a post-doc to be in relative poverty? It's poverty, but above the poverty line. No-one would starve, if people were frugal. I'm sure it would be easier than, say, surviving on £25,000 a year in the UK.

Nick

nfitz

Ah, good point! No dodging them! Partially depends how the money is distributed, as I don't think you pay either on bursaries. But probably best to assume you get hit with it. $40,000 is pretty near the ceiling, so one would assume the full amount ... about $2,600 combined I believe.

It's a one-year post-doc though ... that was the premise. I wouldn't expect one to be saving for retirement, having vacations (odd or not). Health insurance was provided as noted in the original post.

Up to the individual. The question was, could one do it. I think the answer is clearly yes. Perhaps another question is, would one want to do it ... personally at that stage in my life, I'd have loved to have lived like that for a year in a foreign country. Presumably after a post-doc one's income would be high enough to worry about future issues such as retirement, savings, holidays, and the like.

Nick

Happydayz

Don't let the big budget,high rollin,fat wallet Torontoites scare you.It depends on your situation but if your like us,we came to N.S. because we could buy a decent house outright when UK property sold.All major outgoings are much less than our UK equivalents and we (the two of us) are living on $17,000pa. This is a good wage in this area,alot of jobs,especially in retail,are paying $13,000pa.We have a nice big 3 bed.house,9 acres of land,a car and we live the good life with no stress.In the UK,I had my own company,a big mortgage,debts,cars a lot of stress and no spare money at the end of the month. So just choose carefully where you want to live,Canada is a big and diverse place.You can live on a low wage in N.S if your outgoings are going to be low,its all relative.