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The lady didn't pay tax!

The lady didn't pay tax!

Old Dec 19th 2008, 9:29 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Well here's a thing. I don't begrudge the aboriginal Canadians the small concessions they get from the government. As an immigrant I don't feel that it's really anything to do with me, and anyway I'm generally in favour of governments coming to the aid of disadvantaged sections of the population.

However, if you use a phrase such as "everlasting disgrace" it suggests some sort of guilt on the part of today's population for the misdeeds of past populations. I find that problematic, I don't want to pay reparations for slaves I never held, I don't blame the Germans of today for bombing the house I grew up in and I don't think the descendents of the settlers in Canada should feel an historic obligation to the descendents of the native population.

The government should make efforts to improve the difficult situation off reserve Indians find themselves in but because they are Canadians in difficulty, not because they're aboriginal. On reserve Indians are a whole other story, if the reserve is a place at arms length from Canada and the US, where a culture at arms length is followed, maybe funding from the governments isn't appropriate.
Which is why I accept those on reserves should have tax breaks and assistance, but those who chose to live off reserve should have the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 9:46 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by CaptainHook View Post
Which is why I accept those on reserves should have tax breaks and assistance, but those who chose to live off reserve should have the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us.
Er, but they do.

Why would you chose to live in a place where you can never own the land your house is on? It always leasehold. This may not seem significant to a European but to Canadians who put great store by owning land it's important.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 10:06 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
However, if you use a phrase such as "everlasting disgrace" it suggests some sort of guilt on the part of today's population for the misdeeds of past populations. I find that problematic, I don't want to pay reparations for slaves I never held, I don't blame the Germans of today for bombing the house I grew up in and I don't think the descendents of the settlers in Canada should feel an historic obligation to the descendents of the native population.

\
I think that these actions NEED to be remembered for posterity, to try to stop them from ever happening again, remember that the people who designed the residential school program really did believe that they were doing the best for the Indians, they did not intend to hurt them, merely to help them integrate into Canadian society.

At the moment its not really a historic obligation, but a current obligation, the residential schools operated until the mid 60's, so most of the survivors are middle aged now, and so many of their problems have been passed down to their children.

I see the effects everyday, Manitoba has a large "native" population and a disproportionate number are alcoholics and drug abusers, and they make up 80% or our prison population. A lot of the problems that cause these issues can be directly attributed to the residential school program.

These problems are going to take many generations to sort out, we can't just brush them all under the table and say "Its not my generations problem". Sometimes we do have to take on obligations handed down by our ancestors, whether we like it or not.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 10:08 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

This may come as a complete shock to some here but 400 years ago the rapacious Europeans took everything away from the natives. The very least Canada can do nowadays is to try to make it up to them.

If it means tax breaks so be it!
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 11:08 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
These problems are going to take many generations to sort out, we can't just brush them all under the table and say "Its not my generations problem". Sometimes we do have to take on obligations handed down by our ancestors, whether we like it or not.
I take your point but wonder where it stops. Slavery reparations seem a directly comparable issue, where are you on that?
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Old Dec 20th 2008, 12:30 am
  #66  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
It was part of the deal cut as compensation for us living on (what was) their land.

Its complicated and lots of politics etc is involved. Many groups exist as entities somewhat outside of straight canadian or US law.

They most certainly do pay tax. My stepson is Lakota in Halifax not on a reservation and pays taxes and my in-laws in Kahnawake, Que which is a reservation are Mohawk and they pay taxes.
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Old Dec 20th 2008, 5:55 am
  #67  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I take your point but wonder where it stops. Slavery reparations seem a directly comparable issue, where are you on that?
Not comparable at all.

The aboriginal people of Canada were treated as nations by Britain, and treaties were made with them as nations. As such they have treaty rights as members of nations. They were never treated as property.

The slavery issue is different historically and legally.

Morally there may be some comparison.

And... the first nations despise being helped, despise the help that's given and despise themselves for being so weak as to have to take it, and despise those that help them. They see no honour in it for anyone.

How do I know this? Working for 4 years in prison as a chaplain and working closely with the aboriginal inmates.

If the government actually abided by the treaty rights .....
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Old Dec 20th 2008, 6:45 am
  #68  
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by triumphguy View Post
If the government actually abided by the treaty rights .....
It'd be a miracle. Don't hold your breath while Harper's in power, and I don't think I've heard any of the other political parties views on abiding by these either. I will however ask my local MP on his position on this. He's a Liberal.
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