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The lady didn't pay tax!

The lady didn't pay tax!

Old Dec 18th 2008, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Ahem.
The defence rests.
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Old Dec 18th 2008, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by brianscottie43 View Post
The defence rests.
posters'
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Old Dec 18th 2008, 9:56 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by Souvenir View Post
posters'
I understood it from dbd33's post.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:17 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

I don't think anyone who has studied what the European's did to the First Nations peoples over the years would begrudge them a few tax breaks here and there.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
I don't think anyone who has studied what the European's did to the First Nations peoples over the years would begrudge them a few tax breaks here and there.
This is a genuine question based on my ignorance of all this. I'm interested - just not enough to go researching from scratch.

Could someone explain please and are there examples of similar compensations elsewhere in the world. Is there an informative article someone could provide a link for?
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:29 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
This is a genuine question based on my ignorance of all this. I'm interested - just not enough to go researching from scratch.

Could someone explain please and are there examples of similar compensations elsewhere in the world. Is there an informative article someone could provide a link for?
http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/to...hp?topicID=206


The US and Australia immediately spring to mind.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

There`s reams of material on the aboriginal experience in Canada and Australia:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journal...ev/2002/2.html

http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/dec00/jull.pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_n28680141
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:43 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by iaink View Post
The US and Australia immediately spring to mind.
Thanks for the link. The pros and cons were quite useful too.

Anyone know any other examples?
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Thanks for the link. The pros and cons were quite useful too.

Anyone know any other examples?
Maybe the Brahmaputra in Malaysia?
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
There`s reams of material on the aboriginal experience in Canada and Australia:
Thanks too for those links.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 2:56 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Found one of my own. Other examples included.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 3:20 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

OK out comes the pedant card!

Victorian Britain, as it was expanding westwards across what is now Canada to the Pacific, made Treaties with the Nations they encountered. That is why indigenous peoples are called First Nations rather than the First Nation.

As the first nations in the region the British Crown recognised certain rghts which were enshrined in Treaties. There are many such treaties throughout Canada. Each provides different rights and responsibilities to both parties.

Before Canada was a nation First Nations had treaties with Queen Victoria. That's why you sometimes see First Nations petitioning QEII as Queen of England rather than Queen of Canada.

Typical treaty terms mght be - we'll cross your land, build railways, and have access to most of the land and it's minerals, but you have the right to your own boundaries which we will respect, and we won't tax you since you are a separate nation.

For example


Crowfoot and Treaty Number 7

A few days before September 12, 1877, Blackfoot and Stonies began arriving at Blackfoot Crossing on the banks of the Bow River in southern Alberta. The two were old enemies and camped on opposite sides of the river. Later in the week they were joined by the Blood and Piegan. They were here to negotiate a treaty with the Canadian government. The sounds of singing and dancing soon echoed across the valley.
At the first meeting Commissioner David Laird outlined the hard facts: “In a very few years, the buffalo will probably be all destroyed, and for this reason the queen wishes to help you to live in the future in some other way.” He offered to help show the First Nations how to raise cattle and grain and to give them financial assistance. In return he expected that the First Nations would relinquish their claim to most of their land.

Some chiefs were for the government’s terms and others against. As the discussion heated up, all eyes turned to one chief, Crowfoot.

Crowfoot was born a Blood in 1830 along the Belly River. As a child he was given the name Shot Close. Names among First Nations were considered living things, to be passed on to those who proved worthy of them. After his father was killed, Shot Close was adopted by the Blackfoot, who gave him the name Bear Ghost. He earned his most prestigious name Isapo-muxika (Crow Indian’s Big Foot, or Crowfoot) from an act of bravery during an attack on a Crow camp.

After a deadly outbreak of smallpox decimated his people in 1869 he became chief. During his years as chief Crowfoot became an influential peacemaker. He kept his young men from making raids and showed leniency when dealing with enemies. He formed a close friendship with the missionary Albert Lacombe, whom he once rescued from a Cree attack. Early in the 1870s he made peace with the Cree and he adopted a young Cree, Poundmaker, as his son.


Crowfoot had a keen intelligence and even while buffalo were still plentiful he foresaw a bleak future for his people. “We all see that the day is coming when the buffalo will all be killed, and we shall have nothing more to live on.”

It was this awareness that brought Crowfoot to that treaty meeting. Although the commissioners thought mistakenly that Crowfoot was chief of all the Blackfoot, he knew that he could not take a decision without the agreement of the other chiefs. After discussing the terms with Red Crow, chief of the Blood, Crowfoot visited an old medicine man named Pemmican to seek advice. Pemmican warned him that if he accepted the treaty “You will be tied down, you will not wander the plains; the whites will take your land and fill it.” Crowfoot was disturbed by the prophetic words.

Red Crow and the others told Crowfoot that they would sign if Crowfoot would. On September 21, Crowfoot rose to speak. He thanked the Mounted Police for saving so many of his people from the whiskey traders. “The Police have protected us as the feathers of the bird protect it from the frosts of winter… I am satisfied and I will sign the treaty.” One by one the others followed and on September 22 the chiefs gathered to sign the landmark Treaty Number 7.

The question was asked then and it is still asked today. Did the Blackfoot understand the treaty? Did they comprehend that they would be confined to a small parcel of their former dominion? Likely Crowfoot did. To him the treaty was simply an act of faith. He knew that nothing could stop the white invasion and whatever future his people had would have to accommodate them.

In the years after the treaty Crowfoot had cause to regret his good opinion of the white men, as his people suffered starvation and disease, as settlers encroached on the land and as the government failed to live up to the terms of the treaty. Nevertheless, Crowfoot continued to believe that violence would only make things worse. He rejected Louis Riel’s entreaties to join in the rebellion.

Despite his illness and personal sorrow, Crowfoot remained a man of great dignity and compassion. He captured the imagination of almost everyone who ever met him. After 8 of his 12 children had died he heard that his beloved adopted son Poundmaker had been convicted of treason. “I have such a feeling of lonesomeness,” he wrote to Poundmaker, “of seeing my children dying every year and if I hear you are dead, I will have no more reason for living.” When Crowfoot died on April 5, 1890, he was mourned all over the world. He had been a warrior, peacemaker, orator and diplomat. He had brought great honour to his name.



For the mosr part the first nations entered into the treaties as honourable partners. Was their trust repaid?

That's what needs to go through our minds when we see someone not paying Canadian tax 'cos they have a treaty card.

BTW: I have worked with Blackfoot people, and have had the privilege of being in a sweat lodge ceremony with a descendent of Crowfoot. An awesome experience which you cannot buy.

Also, most reserves are places of abject poverty and squalor.
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 6:37 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by Steve_P View Post
I find your last paragraph quite ignorant and truly sad.

So would it not be a stretch to try and learn more about your first nations neighbours instead of griping about them getting money from the "government"?

Perhaps the money is band money but distributed by the government, or maybe it's part of their treaty settlement from a long time back.

Instead of being one of the crowd, educate yourself, it all goes to make you a better person and maybe even a better realtor.
Great advice!
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 8:26 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

And then there was the everlasting disgrace of the Residential Schools -

A Lost Heritage: Canada's Residential Schools

In 1928, a government official predicted Canada would end its "Indian problem" within two generations. Church-run, government-funded residential schools for native children were supposed to prepare them for life in white society. But the aims of assimilation meant devastation for those who were subjected to physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Decades later, aboriginal people began to share their stories and demand acknowledgement of — and compensation for — their stolen childhoods.

.......... Interesting Video archive

http://archives.cbc.ca/society/education/topics/692/
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Old Dec 19th 2008, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: The lady didn't pay tax!

Originally Posted by MB-Realtor View Post
And then there was the everlasting disgrace of the Residential Schools -
Well here's a thing. I don't begrudge the aboriginal Canadians the small concessions they get from the government. As an immigrant I don't feel that it's really anything to do with me, and anyway I'm generally in favour of governments coming to the aid of disadvantaged sections of the population.

However, if you use a phrase such as "everlasting disgrace" it suggests some sort of guilt on the part of today's population for the misdeeds of past populations. I find that problematic, I don't want to pay reparations for slaves I never held, I don't blame the Germans of today for bombing the house I grew up in and I don't think the descendents of the settlers in Canada should feel an historic obligation to the descendents of the native population.

The government should make efforts to improve the difficult situation off reserve Indians find themselves in but because they are Canadians in difficulty, not because they're aboriginal. On reserve Indians are a whole other story, if the reserve is a place at arms length from Canada and the US, where a culture at arms length is followed, maybe funding from the governments isn't appropriate.
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