IT jobs a nightmare to get
#46
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 57
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Your right (well almost) I am back based in blighty but I'm doing a weekly commute to amsterdam at the moment (couldn't say no to the cash).
However over the last month I've had six emails from companies in canada starting with the text "Regarding your recent application we would like to discuss the matter further".
These were all jobs I applied for in the first month of landing Aug/Sep so that's about 4.5 months ago. My opinion of "recent" and the candian version of "recent" seem to be two very different things.
So be prepared all you new landers when other people say it can take a long time they are not lying.
However over the last month I've had six emails from companies in canada starting with the text "Regarding your recent application we would like to discuss the matter further".
These were all jobs I applied for in the first month of landing Aug/Sep so that's about 4.5 months ago. My opinion of "recent" and the candian version of "recent" seem to be two very different things.
So be prepared all you new landers when other people say it can take a long time they are not lying.
Sorry to re-ignite your thread, can I ask what area of IT you're in?
Thanks
#48
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
I can relate to all this. Canada = slow!!!!
I applied for a IT role here in Ontario when I landed in April 2005. I got called for a first interview in August 2006. I got through to the next round and they told me that they were definately interested in hiring me. So after that they said, we will come back to me. So I get my call for the second round interview in December 2006 which was scheduled for January 2007. I just had the interview a few days, and the feedback is that they want to give me the job and they tell me they will get back to me.... So at this point I figure that from the start of the applying process to the then end of the process its probably going to take almost 2 years Compares to the UK market where this whole process happens usually in the space of a week or two
But can't complain I guess as life is good generally for me in Canada
I applied for a IT role here in Ontario when I landed in April 2005. I got called for a first interview in August 2006. I got through to the next round and they told me that they were definately interested in hiring me. So after that they said, we will come back to me. So I get my call for the second round interview in December 2006 which was scheduled for January 2007. I just had the interview a few days, and the feedback is that they want to give me the job and they tell me they will get back to me.... So at this point I figure that from the start of the applying process to the then end of the process its probably going to take almost 2 years Compares to the UK market where this whole process happens usually in the space of a week or two
But can't complain I guess as life is good generally for me in Canada
#49
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: By the Ocean, NS
Posts: 270
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
This whole thread has been facinating, if not very encouraging.
As we have a 4-5 year wait to get to Canada (with OH as the Skilled Worker) I have plenty of time to retrain and try to get some experience that will help when we move.
I thought IT was in big demand out there and as I was a Systems Analyst before we had kids was looking for a good area to train in. (Was a stay at home mum for many years and have just done low paid travel and education part time jobs since) Don't know what direction to take... on with the research
Sorry things didn't work out for you. Sounds like you have a good life in the UK and are earning enough to have the time and money for lots of trips to enjoy Canada though.
As we have a 4-5 year wait to get to Canada (with OH as the Skilled Worker) I have plenty of time to retrain and try to get some experience that will help when we move.
I thought IT was in big demand out there and as I was a Systems Analyst before we had kids was looking for a good area to train in. (Was a stay at home mum for many years and have just done low paid travel and education part time jobs since) Don't know what direction to take... on with the research
Sorry things didn't work out for you. Sounds like you have a good life in the UK and are earning enough to have the time and money for lots of trips to enjoy Canada though.
#50
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Can I add that there is a bit of luck involved? I've managed to get an IT job before I land, but that was down to finding a job advertised on the internet and sending off my CV to a guy who, at exactly the same time was looking for someone with my skills. Went for interview and start on 7th May. Whole process took 3 months.
But, ...am worried I will get there and they will have changed their minds, that seems to happen regularly.
C
But, ...am worried I will get there and they will have changed their minds, that seems to happen regularly.
C
#51
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
I would suggest a couple of things are affecting th IT job situation.
1) The dot com boom and resulting hype encouraged many people to enter the IT Industry resulting in a surplus of people.
2) The bursting of the dot com bubble and the Y2K fiasco caused a loss of confidence in IT in general.
The result is a surplus of people with reduced demand.
1) The dot com boom and resulting hype encouraged many people to enter the IT Industry resulting in a surplus of people.
2) The bursting of the dot com bubble and the Y2K fiasco caused a loss of confidence in IT in general.
The result is a surplus of people with reduced demand.
#52
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
I would suggest a couple of things are affecting th IT job situation.
1) The dot com boom and resulting hype encouraged many people to enter the IT Industry resulting in a surplus of people.
2) The bursting of the dot com bubble and the Y2K fiasco caused a loss of confidence in IT in general.
The result is a surplus of people with reduced demand.
1) The dot com boom and resulting hype encouraged many people to enter the IT Industry resulting in a surplus of people.
2) The bursting of the dot com bubble and the Y2K fiasco caused a loss of confidence in IT in general.
The result is a surplus of people with reduced demand.
What Y2K fiasco?
#54
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
but it was all hype, nothing very much happened. It's hard to see what relevance it has now.
Last edited by dbd33; Apr 18th 2007 at 2:06 pm.
#55
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Posts: 164
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi all,
I've read this thread with fascination. I live in Victoria (have for 5.5yrs) and commute weekly to Vancouver (company has an office in both cities to work out of). We are having a devil of a job finding the right people. We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
With regard to speed, we've interviewed a few people over the least few months and the interviews go like this. Interview in the afternoon as a first pass, discuss terms, fly them to Victoria the next day for the Exec interview and job offer is made (did one last week, resume in my inbox on Monday, Vancouver interview on Wed, Victoria interview on Thursday and offer made there and then) - doesn't look slow to me.
I do agree that networking is the key in Vancouver and Victoria - it hasn't got to be painfull just find the local groups like CIPS or a SIG and go and meet people. You do have to sell yourself - something that takes a little getting used to but it's just a different way of doing things - give it a go and dive in.
Some Vancouver Island job postings;
http://www.infotechvi.com/tech_jobp.php
http://www.viatec.ca/job/job.php
If you like reading numbers then have a look at this report.
http://www.bctia.org/files/PDF/TechT...t_Feb_2007.pdf
There's also a looming public sector skills shortage as the baby boomers retire in the next few years or so - all of the BC Government jobs are now 'out of service' which means anyone can apply. The Olympics are in Vancouver in 2010 and they are going to need a bunch of people. The economy is hot.....etc.....
Good luck everyone.
Cheers - Steve
I've read this thread with fascination. I live in Victoria (have for 5.5yrs) and commute weekly to Vancouver (company has an office in both cities to work out of). We are having a devil of a job finding the right people. We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
With regard to speed, we've interviewed a few people over the least few months and the interviews go like this. Interview in the afternoon as a first pass, discuss terms, fly them to Victoria the next day for the Exec interview and job offer is made (did one last week, resume in my inbox on Monday, Vancouver interview on Wed, Victoria interview on Thursday and offer made there and then) - doesn't look slow to me.
I do agree that networking is the key in Vancouver and Victoria - it hasn't got to be painfull just find the local groups like CIPS or a SIG and go and meet people. You do have to sell yourself - something that takes a little getting used to but it's just a different way of doing things - give it a go and dive in.
Some Vancouver Island job postings;
http://www.infotechvi.com/tech_jobp.php
http://www.viatec.ca/job/job.php
If you like reading numbers then have a look at this report.
http://www.bctia.org/files/PDF/TechT...t_Feb_2007.pdf
There's also a looming public sector skills shortage as the baby boomers retire in the next few years or so - all of the BC Government jobs are now 'out of service' which means anyone can apply. The Olympics are in Vancouver in 2010 and they are going to need a bunch of people. The economy is hot.....etc.....
Good luck everyone.
Cheers - Steve
This whole thread has been facinating, if not very encouraging.
As we have a 4-5 year wait to get to Canada (with OH as the Skilled Worker) I have plenty of time to retrain and try to get some experience that will help when we move.
I thought IT was in big demand out there and as I was a Systems Analyst before we had kids was looking for a good area to train in. (Was a stay at home mum for many years and have just done low paid travel and education part time jobs since) Don't know what direction to take... on with the research
Sorry things didn't work out for you. Sounds like you have a good life in the UK and are earning enough to have the time and money for lots of trips to enjoy Canada though.
As we have a 4-5 year wait to get to Canada (with OH as the Skilled Worker) I have plenty of time to retrain and try to get some experience that will help when we move.
I thought IT was in big demand out there and as I was a Systems Analyst before we had kids was looking for a good area to train in. (Was a stay at home mum for many years and have just done low paid travel and education part time jobs since) Don't know what direction to take... on with the research
Sorry things didn't work out for you. Sounds like you have a good life in the UK and are earning enough to have the time and money for lots of trips to enjoy Canada though.
#56
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 155
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi all as you can tell I'm a recent lander from the UK (been working in London the last six years) and I'm in search of some constructive advice regarding IT jobs in Canada.
I landed about two months ago and started my search in earnest for IT jobs primarily in Van BC (I know wishful thinking) but also all over the country with a lot of emphasis on Toronto.
Before applying and landing I looked at the number of jobs being advertised in order to determine the probability of finding something and the numbers were stacking up.
However I'm having a complete nightmare getting anywhere. Back in the UK (I know someone will tell me off for comparing) I was getting 2/3 emails a week asking me if I was interested in different IT contract jobs all offering good money. Part of the reason for this is that my CV stacks up pretty well, I've got 8 years experience with good name companies (all international and known over here) and my particular skills were in demand (and also seem to be over here but please read on).
So I looked at the move with a reasonably optimistic view (not blindly but reasonably). There was one thing however that did concern me when I was doing my research (and which is now causing me major headaches) was the seemingly inflexible attitude towards recruitment that seems to exist over here (at least in IT related jobs).
When I did my initial research on IT jobs when considering the move it seemed that for each job advertised employers had a long list of what they call "must have" skills for each job. i.e. Must know 6/7 particular programming languages plus used a whole host of other software tools in order to get a chance of the job. When I saw this originally I put it down to being an employers market (as it was at that time) and thus employers were being more picky.
I also took the view that it is very unlikely that these employers were going to find people with those unique blends of skills as the more "must have" skills they require the more unique the requirements become and thus limit the possibility of finding someone. Common sense would then dictate that an employer would have to re-evaluate their criteria and come up with another plan to achieve their goal of recruiting someone. However it is becoming apparent that common sense is dictating nothing over here.
Comparing this to the UK employers often look for maybe 4 core skills, and if then there are other periphery skills, they take a view of whether or not the prospective candidate would be able to learn those skills quickly enough and to a sufficient level of expertise in order to be productive.
The reason for this is that in the vast majority of cases in the course of an employees duties their role will require them to use the “4 core skills” about %75-%80 percent of their time to a relatively advanced level and only “dip into” the other periphery skills. Thus they don’t need to have 10 years experience in these periphery skills they either need to have had some exposure, or show the aptitude to learn them to the required level in a timely manner.
This is usually done by reviewing their CV and apply a simply rule of “do they have the core skills – yes then get them in for an interview to find out whether or not they have two heads or they seem like a reasonably intelligent person” .
Now I may get the response not all jobs have such unique lists of “must have” skills and have a more reasonable set of requirements. And I agree there are one or two around and some of them I have been an exact match for so I thought to myself “now’s your chance son apply for these you’ve got a good chance of getting them”. I then saw the jobs disappear off the job board i.e. they have taken in all the applications they need and are now considering them. So I hear nothing and thought “okay they probably found someone who was an even better match than me (there is always someone better no matter who you are)”.
Then two weeks later I see these jobs (and this has happened a few times now) re-advertised by the same recruiter i.e. they couldn’t find anyone they wanted. Then I thought “hang on a minute I was an exact match for the skills/experience I was at least expecting a chance of an interview”.
What is going on in this country???
Unrealistic employee requirements (I saw one today with 17 “must haves” very unique person that)
No willingness to even interview “good fit” candidates.
This is born out by seeing jobs being re-advertised such a lot.
I’ve seen some comments on other threads mentioning degrees as a deciding factor (I’ve only done a HND then went straight into a job). But in my experience of IT (some may argue this) that practical experience is infinitely more valuable than a dividing line between qualifications. I’ve worked with guy’s who left high school with limited qualifications but are absolutely brilliant and far outshine others with MSc’s and PhD’s and it is also visible from their CV’s and salaries. From my knowledge of the recruitment process this is considered each time by reading the applicants CV and making a comonsense judgement call on each applicant. I have had to review CV's for prospective candidates back in the UK on request of my managers and this is the method they used and asked me to use.
It seems to be very stuck on procedure/rules over here i.e. Must have a highly unique blend of 17 skills or you don’t even get an interview.
I know someone will respond with "well standards are higher over here", but I know that no one in the course of their daily job would have to have some of the in depth + massively varied range of skills that employers seem to be looking for unless everyone over here is a genius. If that was the case then Canada would be the world leader in providing intellectual skills .
Can someone explain what is going on here ?
I’m tempted to pack it all in and head back home. I’m still getting emails offering contracts at 400 quid a day back in the UK. It may well p@!s down all the time and the houses are expensive but at least I can get a job to pay for it.
I know I’ll get slammed with people saying how dare you complain after only two months but if there is no way to break into what seems like a restrictive market then it only leads to one conclusion you’ve got to put a roof over your head and how do you pay for it.
I landed about two months ago and started my search in earnest for IT jobs primarily in Van BC (I know wishful thinking) but also all over the country with a lot of emphasis on Toronto.
Before applying and landing I looked at the number of jobs being advertised in order to determine the probability of finding something and the numbers were stacking up.
However I'm having a complete nightmare getting anywhere. Back in the UK (I know someone will tell me off for comparing) I was getting 2/3 emails a week asking me if I was interested in different IT contract jobs all offering good money. Part of the reason for this is that my CV stacks up pretty well, I've got 8 years experience with good name companies (all international and known over here) and my particular skills were in demand (and also seem to be over here but please read on).
So I looked at the move with a reasonably optimistic view (not blindly but reasonably). There was one thing however that did concern me when I was doing my research (and which is now causing me major headaches) was the seemingly inflexible attitude towards recruitment that seems to exist over here (at least in IT related jobs).
When I did my initial research on IT jobs when considering the move it seemed that for each job advertised employers had a long list of what they call "must have" skills for each job. i.e. Must know 6/7 particular programming languages plus used a whole host of other software tools in order to get a chance of the job. When I saw this originally I put it down to being an employers market (as it was at that time) and thus employers were being more picky.
I also took the view that it is very unlikely that these employers were going to find people with those unique blends of skills as the more "must have" skills they require the more unique the requirements become and thus limit the possibility of finding someone. Common sense would then dictate that an employer would have to re-evaluate their criteria and come up with another plan to achieve their goal of recruiting someone. However it is becoming apparent that common sense is dictating nothing over here.
Comparing this to the UK employers often look for maybe 4 core skills, and if then there are other periphery skills, they take a view of whether or not the prospective candidate would be able to learn those skills quickly enough and to a sufficient level of expertise in order to be productive.
The reason for this is that in the vast majority of cases in the course of an employees duties their role will require them to use the “4 core skills” about %75-%80 percent of their time to a relatively advanced level and only “dip into” the other periphery skills. Thus they don’t need to have 10 years experience in these periphery skills they either need to have had some exposure, or show the aptitude to learn them to the required level in a timely manner.
This is usually done by reviewing their CV and apply a simply rule of “do they have the core skills – yes then get them in for an interview to find out whether or not they have two heads or they seem like a reasonably intelligent person” .
Now I may get the response not all jobs have such unique lists of “must have” skills and have a more reasonable set of requirements. And I agree there are one or two around and some of them I have been an exact match for so I thought to myself “now’s your chance son apply for these you’ve got a good chance of getting them”. I then saw the jobs disappear off the job board i.e. they have taken in all the applications they need and are now considering them. So I hear nothing and thought “okay they probably found someone who was an even better match than me (there is always someone better no matter who you are)”.
Then two weeks later I see these jobs (and this has happened a few times now) re-advertised by the same recruiter i.e. they couldn’t find anyone they wanted. Then I thought “hang on a minute I was an exact match for the skills/experience I was at least expecting a chance of an interview”.
What is going on in this country???
Unrealistic employee requirements (I saw one today with 17 “must haves” very unique person that)
No willingness to even interview “good fit” candidates.
This is born out by seeing jobs being re-advertised such a lot.
I’ve seen some comments on other threads mentioning degrees as a deciding factor (I’ve only done a HND then went straight into a job). But in my experience of IT (some may argue this) that practical experience is infinitely more valuable than a dividing line between qualifications. I’ve worked with guy’s who left high school with limited qualifications but are absolutely brilliant and far outshine others with MSc’s and PhD’s and it is also visible from their CV’s and salaries. From my knowledge of the recruitment process this is considered each time by reading the applicants CV and making a comonsense judgement call on each applicant. I have had to review CV's for prospective candidates back in the UK on request of my managers and this is the method they used and asked me to use.
It seems to be very stuck on procedure/rules over here i.e. Must have a highly unique blend of 17 skills or you don’t even get an interview.
I know someone will respond with "well standards are higher over here", but I know that no one in the course of their daily job would have to have some of the in depth + massively varied range of skills that employers seem to be looking for unless everyone over here is a genius. If that was the case then Canada would be the world leader in providing intellectual skills .
Can someone explain what is going on here ?
I’m tempted to pack it all in and head back home. I’m still getting emails offering contracts at 400 quid a day back in the UK. It may well p@!s down all the time and the houses are expensive but at least I can get a job to pay for it.
I know I’ll get slammed with people saying how dare you complain after only two months but if there is no way to break into what seems like a restrictive market then it only leads to one conclusion you’ve got to put a roof over your head and how do you pay for it.
Commiserations...Same in NZ unfortunately. Im in Delphi which is basically persona non grata in Wellington. This does not mean however that I can't code other languages just that ALL my jobs have been in Delphi.
I have struggled big time to break into anything else.
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: By the Ocean, NS
Posts: 270
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi all,
I've read this thread with fascination. I live in Victoria (have for 5.5yrs) and commute weekly to Vancouver (company has an office in both cities to work out of). We are having a devil of a job finding the right people. We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
With regard to speed, we've interviewed a few people over the least few months and the interviews go like this. Interview in the afternoon as a first pass, discuss terms, fly them to Victoria the next day for the Exec interview and job offer is made (did one last week, resume in my inbox on Monday, Vancouver interview on Wed, Victoria interview on Thursday and offer made there and then) - doesn't look slow to me.
I do agree that networking is the key in Vancouver and Victoria - it hasn't got to be painfull just find the local groups like CIPS or a SIG and go and meet people. You do have to sell yourself - something that takes a little getting used to but it's just a different way of doing things - give it a go and dive in.
Some Vancouver Island job postings;
http://www.infotechvi.com/tech_jobp.php
http://www.viatec.ca/job/job.php
If you like reading numbers then have a look at this report.
http://www.bctia.org/files/PDF/TechT...t_Feb_2007.pdf
There's also a looming public sector skills shortage as the baby boomers retire in the next few years or so - all of the BC Government jobs are now 'out of service' which means anyone can apply. The Olympics are in Vancouver in 2010 and they are going to need a bunch of people. The economy is hot.....etc.....
Good luck everyone.
Cheers - Steve
I've read this thread with fascination. I live in Victoria (have for 5.5yrs) and commute weekly to Vancouver (company has an office in both cities to work out of). We are having a devil of a job finding the right people. We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
With regard to speed, we've interviewed a few people over the least few months and the interviews go like this. Interview in the afternoon as a first pass, discuss terms, fly them to Victoria the next day for the Exec interview and job offer is made (did one last week, resume in my inbox on Monday, Vancouver interview on Wed, Victoria interview on Thursday and offer made there and then) - doesn't look slow to me.
I do agree that networking is the key in Vancouver and Victoria - it hasn't got to be painfull just find the local groups like CIPS or a SIG and go and meet people. You do have to sell yourself - something that takes a little getting used to but it's just a different way of doing things - give it a go and dive in.
Some Vancouver Island job postings;
http://www.infotechvi.com/tech_jobp.php
http://www.viatec.ca/job/job.php
If you like reading numbers then have a look at this report.
http://www.bctia.org/files/PDF/TechT...t_Feb_2007.pdf
There's also a looming public sector skills shortage as the baby boomers retire in the next few years or so - all of the BC Government jobs are now 'out of service' which means anyone can apply. The Olympics are in Vancouver in 2010 and they are going to need a bunch of people. The economy is hot.....etc.....
Good luck everyone.
Cheers - Steve
#58
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi all,
We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
We're not looking for programming skills (perl and shell - but not heavyweight development folks) - but serious Windows people with Storage, Virtualisation and cluster experience. All the IT people I meet and network with all say the same thing as we experience - we can't find people.
If the company you work for gets desperate enough to look for offering people positions on PNP routes, give me a shout
Maybe there's too much generalisation with the IT posts on here, as "there's no IT jobs", could mean a lot of things, as IT is such a broad subject area.... There may well be no jobs in a specific programming language etc, but doesn't mean that is the case for other areas.....
#59
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Posts: 164
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi there G77,
Why don't you send me your CV and I'll put it forward - they can only say no.
If you want some background on the company then; http://www.myra.com
Cheers - Steve
Why don't you send me your CV and I'll put it forward - they can only say no.
If you want some background on the company then; http://www.myra.com
Cheers - Steve
Great post Steve - made me feel much more comfortable, as I am a Windows based infrastructure architect (speciality is Citrix). I had previously ruled out Vancouver in favour of the East coast on the basis of posts on here - but if there is a real need for Windows people, then maybe I should consider it again....
If the company you work for gets desperate enough to look for offering people positions on PNP routes, give me a shout
Maybe there's too much generalisation with the IT posts on here, as "there's no IT jobs", could mean a lot of things, as IT is such a broad subject area.... There may well be no jobs in a specific programming language etc, but doesn't mean that is the case for other areas.....
If the company you work for gets desperate enough to look for offering people positions on PNP routes, give me a shout
Maybe there's too much generalisation with the IT posts on here, as "there's no IT jobs", could mean a lot of things, as IT is such a broad subject area.... There may well be no jobs in a specific programming language etc, but doesn't mean that is the case for other areas.....
Last edited by SteveHarris; May 1st 2007 at 1:07 am.
#60
Re: IT jobs a nightmare to get
Hi there G77,
Why don't you send me your CV and I'll put it forward - they can only say no.
If you want some background on the company then; http://www.myra.com
Cheers - Steve
Why don't you send me your CV and I'll put it forward - they can only say no.
If you want some background on the company then; http://www.myra.com
Cheers - Steve
Cheers Steve, looks good - have sent you a pm