Originally Posted by Madmac

Hey this thread is 'spot on' to what I'm experiencing. Years in IT (even taught it) and can't get a foot in the door.

If a candidate has all the skills on the employers 'wish-list' then they deserve all the money that's on offer.

Oh, and everybody I've met has also mentioned the networking aspect - 80% of jobs are filled this way in Canada or so they say.

I'll just need to get that sandwich board out and walk up and down the streets.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by dbd33

Rather than a sandwich board I suggest the use of beer. Buy lots of beer for people who are established in the business.

Originally Posted by RecentLander

Hi all as you can tell I'm a recent lander from the UK (been working in London the last six years) and I'm in search of some constructive advice regarding IT jobs in Canada.

I landed about two months ago and started my search in earnest for IT jobs primarily in Van BC (I know wishful thinking) but also all over the country with a lot of emphasis on Toronto.

Before applying and landing I looked at the number of jobs being advertised in order to determine the probability of finding something and the numbers were stacking up.

However I'm having a complete nightmare getting anywhere. Back in the UK (I know someone will tell me off for comparing) I was getting 2/3 emails a week asking me if I was interested in different IT contract jobs all offering good money. Part of the reason for this is that my CV stacks up pretty well, I've got 8 years experience with good name companies (all international and known over here) and my particular skills were in demand (and also seem to be over here but please read on).

So I looked at the move with a reasonably optimistic view (not blindly but reasonably). There was one thing however that did concern me when I was doing my research (and which is now causing me major headaches) was the seemingly inflexible attitude towards recruitment that seems to exist over here (at least in IT related jobs).

When I did my initial research on IT jobs when considering the move it seemed that for each job advertised employers had a long list of what they call "must have" skills for each job. i.e. Must know 6/7 particular programming languages plus used a whole host of other software tools in order to get a chance of the job. When I saw this originally I put it down to being an employers market (as it was at that time) and thus employers were being more picky.

I also took the view that it is very unlikely that these employers were going to find people with those unique blends of skills as the more "must have" skills they require the more unique the requirements become and thus limit the possibility of finding someone. Common sense would then dictate that an employer would have to re-evaluate their criteria and come up with another plan to achieve their goal of recruiting someone. However it is becoming apparent that common sense is dictating nothing over here.

Comparing this to the UK employers often look for maybe 4 core skills, and if then there are other periphery skills, they take a view of whether or not the prospective candidate would be able to learn those skills quickly enough and to a sufficient level of expertise in order to be productive.

The reason for this is that in the vast majority of cases in the course of an employees duties their role will require them to use the “4 core skills” about %75-%80 percent of their time to a relatively advanced level and only “dip into” the other periphery skills. Thus they don’t need to have 10 years experience in these periphery skills they either need to have had some exposure, or show the aptitude to learn them to the required level in a timely manner.

This is usually done by reviewing their CV and apply a simply rule of “do they have the core skills – yes then get them in for an interview to find out whether or not they have two heads or they seem like a reasonably intelligent person” .


Now I may get the response not all jobs have such unique lists of “must have” skills and have a more reasonable set of requirements. And I agree there are one or two around and some of them I have been an exact match for so I thought to myself “now’s your chance son apply for these you’ve got a good chance of getting them”. I then saw the jobs disappear off the job board i.e. they have taken in all the applications they need and are now considering them. So I hear nothing and thought “okay they probably found someone who was an even better match than me (there is always someone better no matter who you are)”.


Then two weeks later I see these jobs (and this has happened a few times now) re-advertised by the same recruiter i.e. they couldn’t find anyone they wanted. Then I thought “hang on a minute I was an exact match for the skills/experience I was at least expecting a chance of an interview”.

What is going on in this country???

Unrealistic employee requirements (I saw one today with 17 “must haves” very unique person that)

No willingness to even interview “good fit” candidates.

This is born out by seeing jobs being re-advertised such a lot.

I’ve seen some comments on other threads mentioning degrees as a deciding factor (I’ve only done a HND then went straight into a job). But in my experience of IT (some may argue this) that practical experience is infinitely more valuable than a dividing line between qualifications. I’ve worked with guy’s who left high school with limited qualifications but are absolutely brilliant and far outshine others with MSc’s and PhD’s and it is also visible from their CV’s and salaries. From my knowledge of the recruitment process this is considered each time by reading the applicants CV and making a comonsense judgement call on each applicant. I have had to review CV's for prospective candidates back in the UK on request of my managers and this is the method they used and asked me to use.

It seems to be very stuck on procedure/rules over here i.e. Must have a highly unique blend of 17 skills or you don’t even get an interview.

I know someone will respond with "well standards are higher over here", but I know that no one in the course of their daily job would have to have some of the in depth + massively varied range of skills that employers seem to be looking for unless everyone over here is a genius. If that was the case then Canada would be the world leader in providing intellectual skills .

Can someone explain what is going on here ?

I’m tempted to pack it all in and head back home. I’m still getting emails offering contracts at 400 quid a day back in the UK. It may well p@!s down all the time and the houses are expensive but at least I can get a job to pay for it.

I know I’ll get slammed with people saying how dare you complain after only two months but if there is no way to break into what seems like a restrictive market then it only leads to one conclusion you’ve got to put a roof over your head and how do you pay for it.

Originally Posted by Airseir

It is possible that the adverts are for jobs that do not need to be filled, or do not necessarily exist. I often have an advert out looking for that right person (Programming). I could always argue that I need an extra member of staff. If that right candidate with all the skills ever does apply then I would interview them. I would then point out to the president of the company that a member of staff like this will likely not be seen again - lets get them while we can. Explain how it would help us o meet the ever growing requirement, and then look later when we catch up with everything (yeah that will never happen) who we want to lay off. I see a lot of great resumes but they are not the dream developer. I also keep a hot list - should a post ever come available these will be the first people that I contact to see if they are still in the market for a job. This was something that I could not do in the UK but appears to be standard practice here.

Originally Posted by Airseir

It is possible that the adverts are for jobs that do not need to be filled, or do not necessarily exist. I often have an advert out looking for that right person (Programming). I could always argue that I need an extra member of staff. If that right candidate with all the skills ever does apply then I would interview them. I would then point out to the president of the company that a member of staff like this will likely not be seen again - lets get them while we can. Explain how it would help us o meet the ever growing requirement, and then look later when we catch up with everything (yeah that will never happen) who we want to lay off. I see a lot of great resumes but they are not the dream developer. I also keep a hot list - should a post ever come available these will be the first people that I contact to see if they are still in the market for a job. This was something that I could not do in the UK but appears to be standard practice here.

Originally Posted by little-beauty

Anybody know if RecentLander got his desired role, in the end?

LB.

Originally Posted by oceanMDX

My impression was that he moved back to Blighty.

Originally Posted by RecentLander

I know loads of people will get all pumped up and say your shallow you only evaluate your life by how much you earn but they are completely wrong it's just the fact that you've still got to pay extra to have a nice place to live anywhere in the world and unless canada can offer me the same opportunities as blighty can to earn that nicer life then it's a no go for me.