Interesting post
 

Found an interesting post at:
http://www.settlement.org/discuss/to...&TOPIC_ID=3486
Pasting the most interesting part.


Hi I am not an immigrant. I was born in Canada. My parents immigrated from Italy in the 50s. Many of my friends are new immigrants from India, Pakistan and Japan. The most unfortunate thing I've found is people who have huge expectations and are extremely disappointed when they actually live here

The difference between immigration in those days and now is:
1950s
- immigrants are poor people from poor countries or refugees.
- Immigrants - Their education is minimal but they are willing to work hard, sacrifice and save.
- Refugees - may have been rich and educated but are happy to be alive. There is no going back as certain death or imprisonment awaits
- there are no jobs for them in their homeland
- they are willing to take the dirtist, hardest most dangerous jobs
- probably don't speak english but it doesn't matter as they will work in construction or factories
- their wages are very good compared to home. Their pay may be 5 times higher than in their homeland. They can save, support relatives back home, raise a family


Today
- immigrants are rich and well educated people from poor countries they represent the top 5% of educated/wealthy people in their country. They are respected and may have servants.
- Some believe they can fit into the top part of Canadian society. Canada may be attractive for its safety or kids education.
- Some can go into their profession (IT types)
- Others (doctors, lawyers, teachers etc) will end up delivering pizza, driving taxi cabs and flipping burgers at least in the short term. They will live in high rise or basement apartments in bad areas their kids who may have gone to private schools back home now hand around with the wrong crowd. Instead of the top 5% they are now in the bottom 25% of Canadian society. They definitely will not have servants and will need to do everything themselves.

Why is this?
- The government allows professional associations and unions to regulate themselves. It is in the associates and its members interest to keep competing workers out of their fields. This includes not just immigrants but professionals from other provinces. (Did you know that unionised Ontario construction workers are not allowed to work in Quebec?)
- Everyone today is more educated so having a univerity degree is no longer a rare thing but is now the minimum for a job
- Employers do not trust immigrant resumes and have no way of checking them. If someone claims degrees of great job expoerience in their homeland how can this be checked? Canadian experience can be checked with a phone call.
- Canadian experience. Immigrants hate this phrase but the truth is all of us (including Canadian born) have worked through factory, construction, retail, hamburger jobs. In the case of Canadians we do it during summers in high school and university and in part time jobs. By the time we graduate we have worked in many places that can serve as references.

The truth of immigration is:
If you start from nothing and make something you are satisfied.
If you start from something and become nothing you are bitter.

Before you leave your country ask yourself these questions:
- Am really bad off here?
- Have I done my research about how easy/hard life is in Canada? Can I trust my sources (Canadian government, friends who immigrated). Sometimes your friends in Canada are failures but portray themselves as successes to save their pride. Don't let them fool you.
- Am I willing to start from the bottom?
- What is so great about Canada?
- Is there another place where I can make a new life or get enough money to come back a hero?

Regarding starting a business:
A friend from India was rich in India. His dad owne a factory as did all his and his wife's relatives. Running the bussiness was just a question of playing golf and asking for contract from acquantances.He came to Canada and tried repeatedly to start businessed. Repeatedly he failed. Those businesses already exist. He has no contacts here and no one has an obligation to give him anything.

Sorry for the depressing reality check but I hope it helps someone out there.

Regards,
Andrew

Re: Interesting post
 

:confused: FFS what is wrong with you people ???

If you read the clip above repeatedly, over and over, you have to ask yourself why did this guy move to Canada, if his life was so easy/successful ? Could he speak English ? Was he westernised in culture and business attitude ? Did he have any qualifications or just inherit daddy's empire and capital value ? That paragraph is complete bollocks and tells you all about 'failure' in relevant terms. Success isn't always globally transportable.

Too many people on here are jumping onto the negative bandwagon.

If you have concerns about moving to Canada, simply don't risk it.

If your qualifications and experience aren't recognised, don't bother unless you want to retrain or work your way up.

If you have no capital left when you arrive, why risk it, or does that mean you're more prepared for the grim reality and will work harder to succeed ? Depensd where you're starting from.

If you don't go to Canada with hope and optimism with a work focused attitude you're gonna fail - period.

Rich, utterly perplexed at the typical Brit attitude of negativity, cynicism, hopelessness, miserablism, etc :scared:

If Canada ain't for you, don't do it.

Re: Interesting post
 

And if you go with your head up your backside, you will fail too.
There is a lot of negativity around on the forums. Don't make the mistake of thinking that it is all just 'sour grapes', though.

Bad experiences are just as valid as good ones. If people are only looking at one perspective all the time, they deserve to fail.

Re: Interesting post
 

[QUOTE=Numpty]And if you go with your head up your backside, you will fail too.

My friend, you have a lot to learn in life and of people. Our choice is as follows:

Moving to BC with very strong $ capital.
75% house equity once we settle down.
One FT job in regulated professional on VG salary + packages + excellent career opportunities.
Med and dental cover + spousal cover paid by employer.
Good pension scheme in place.
Household budget plus 25% of monthly income 'spare' over and above all accounted monthly expenses.
Plus one of us with transferable business admin skills and wide scope of UK management roles and reponsibilities willing to work in any sector to get established at any level + willing to retrain even in construction (as per early years working career) to maintain standard of living and enjoy life in Canada. Or sell white goods, or pick fruit, or work in retail or services or leisuer or tourism, or general office work, or whatever happens to feel good.
Approx 5000 hours of in depth research undertaken, two visits to recce out Canada winter and summer at expense of approx £6k investment (money well spent).

So, do you think maybe we planned to fail ? Our choice. Other people, their choice. Equal playing field all round. Please don't infest our positive choices with other people's ignorance, fears, prejudices, cynicism, negativity, miserablisms etc. There are people who can't be arsed with this forum because of all the moaning and whining. It's all TOO ERM BRITISH for my liking. :scared: nobody makes whinging whiny miserable Brits go to Canada - it's their choice. :zzz: Then they land there and moan on endlessly about how they miss Coronation Street, Bass Bitter, fish and chips. mum and dad, Manchester United etc. Reality check - who needs it ? Not me, friend. One thing we will look out for is positive people - of any race creed religion or background - rather than moany Brits missing their steak and kidney pies. Utter wankers who ought to save the PR visas for more deserving, enlightened, positive people. :mad:

Oh, shall I tell you about the Brits who left Vancouver because they found out they didn't like Asian people ? Mental, indeed, and very very naive.

Buy the sweet dreams from the silver haired shiny suited snake oil salesmen, or invest heavily in the reality, your choice. Red pill blue pill, bitter pill, sweet pill.

Rich.

Re: Interesting post
 

[QUOTE=Numpty]Read my words ref cynical Brits. Your message above makes you sound like one. Your name and tag line and your comments and attitude indicate you're a forum troll. :confused: and a bitter negative one at that. Made much of your life, have you ? (go on be honest).

Every single post you make is negative - go see. :zzz:

Rich.

(Won't miss fish and chips, bitter, Corry, Premiership soccer, Beckham, the Royal Family, cricket, BBC, etc).

Re: Interesting post
 

Weird... that was one of the things I liked about Vancouver: I'd probably move there if it wasn't so expensive compared to most of Canada.

Re: Interesting post
 

Same here Mark, the real estate is hideously priced :scared: $350k for a townhome in need of reno ? Urk.

We loved the diversity and mixture of foods, cultures, accents, influences. Good job we're only going to be 5 hours drive away, makes for interesting weekends ?

Rich.

Re: Interesting post
 

Rich

I full agree with what you are saying at the end of the day life is only what you make of it. You have to accept things will be different in a new country and embrace everything that is thrown at you. 11 weeks and counting!!

Where are you heading - i guess somewhere in the interior?

Marc

Re: Interesting post
 

What somebody missed was this simple phrase

And just to push the point…. We ‘all’ on here listen to those that are going to succeed and that their plan is different.. well the really bad news is that everybody who comes to Canada is thinking like that….nobody plans to fail

I’ll reserve judgement until you’ve been here in Canada for a while, at the moment your just another annoying wannabe to me…

So if you don’t like that fact that some people come here to give advice and reasoning of a type you don’t want to read.. then don’t read it…

I feel that advice given that will help somebody avoid the pitfalls or make them think twice is good advice.. and even more so when it comes from a Canadian who will have covered these type of issue in his history class ,schooling and grown up with the immigrant issues that do exist over here

Re: Interesting post
 

Meow :eek:

Rich (annoying wannabe) :D

Re: Interesting post
 

Apart from the word 'annoying' which is somewhat harsh perhaps the original thread has some truth in all countries. Not just Canada.

IF you are a 'WASP' - white anglo saxon protestant you are much more likely to be accepted in Ontario. If you are French Speaking Catholic you have a greater degree of the chance of success if you head for Quebec. If you are pro West Coast laid back lifestyle (man oh man) you may well feel more at home in BC/Alberta.

Sadly skin colour, religion, background, ethnic origins in regard to habits and outlooks all have effect. I am sure there are many more traits that count. Canada or rather to a great degree Ontario is British by nature, albeit an Americanised version of Britain.

IF I were to try and enter India, Iran, Japan, Brazil, Russia as an English only speaking white worker wishing to form part of the core of the workforce, rather than management material placed there by an investing company I feel sure I would fail on all counts. After sometime I may just get a job at the lowest level possible which would be a subsistence level without much hope of improving my lot.

The same applies for most immigrants entering the UK. Those from Romania, India, Pakistan, China, South America etc who are entering on their own steam are unlikely at first generation to pull themselves out of the low paid immigrant trap. It is the second and third generations who generally have had schooling and have mixed with long time resident peoples who fair better. Yes there are rarities of immigrant families who have made it 'big time' but when you research you often find that the family 'back home' were wealthly in the first instance.

So the point of the thread is that in order to assertain your chances of survival you need to first look at yourself. Where would 'I/we' fit in the best and at the earliest possible point.

It is no surprise that the US has made millions of illegals - legal. They form the backbone of the low paid put upon workforce and they consist on the whole of South Americans fleeing the situation they like less than being the low paid workforce. Perhaps in order to grow Canada like most westernised countries with ageing populations need to allow immigrants in to form the low paid section of society in order to maintain the long term resident population in a manner they are accustomed to. The advantage of being a 'WASP' means that you will have a greater chance of achieving what you set out to do far quicker than most.

And if one fails...and I sincerly hope there is no such wish that we annoying wannabees do? it won't be for trying.

Re: Interesting post
 

I don't think this is true of Ontario. There are some Little Englanders in Canada but one reason that Oakville, for example, is so derided is that it's a refuge for white flight, Tunbridge Wells in 1950 (I believe Victoria BC is similar). Toronto has a diverse population, in North America only Miami has greater diversity. More than half Toronto's population was born outside Canada and the people were born all over the world; one of my children was in a high school class where no two students had the same combination of passports. Some neighbourhoods that are not very British are : Little India, the Chinatowns, Greektown, Little Italy, and the Ethiopian Village. Within the bounds of the subway/streetcar perhaps only Leaside, the Beach and High Park could be said to have a large "British" population.

One might say that Toronto is not Ontario but the population of the province is heavily concentrated. Almost no one lives in the north, and, in the pockets of population outside the GTA there is some diversity; even Ottawa has a kebab shop.

Re: Interesting post
 

But that was not the point being made.

Re: Interesting post
 

I'm sorry, I thought the gist of your post was that it should be easier for WASPs in Ontario because Ontario is "British by nature". I think this is not sound because :

- British people are not necessarily WASPs.

- Ontario, except for some backwaters such as Oakville and London, is not particularly WASPish.

Perhaps you could restate your original point so I can better understand it.

Re: Interesting post
 

[QUOTE=dbd33]
QUOTE]
I appologise for my shortness. Doing 2 things at once...must stop

I thought the main thrust of the thinking was...


Sadly skin colour, religion, background, ethnic origins in regard to habits and outlooks all have effect. I am sure there are many more traits that count.

IF I were to try and enter India, Iran, Japan, Brazil, Russia as an English only speaking white worker wishing to form part of the core of the workforce, rather than management material placed there by an investing company I feel sure I would fail on all counts. After sometime I may just get a job at the lowest level possible which would be a subsistence level without much hope of improving my lot.

The same applies for most immigrants entering the UK. Those from Romania, India, Pakistan, China, South America etc who are entering on their own steam are unlikely at first generation to pull themselves out of the low paid immigrant trap. It is the second and third generations who generally have had schooling and have mixed with long time resident peoples who fair better. Yes there are rarities of immigrant families who have made it 'big time' but when you research you often find that the family 'back home' were wealthly in the first instance.

So the point of the thread is that in order to assertain your chances of survival you need to first look at yourself. Where would 'I/we' fit in the best and at the earliest possible point.

I have seen plenty of this first hand since I was a child. I am a product of relatives that lived in Asia for many years as part of the ruling classes. Once returned we remained in constant touch with immigrants and emigrants from Asia as well as befriending refugees from Idi Amin's time.

The going was always tough.

Interestingly the French have crossed the channel in huge numbers and easily adapt - that makes them a minority in the adapation process as per compared to huge numbers from Eastern Europe. To me the reason has the same roots.

Again sorry if I was rude.