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I'm going home, i've done my time!!

I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Old Feb 22nd 2011, 2:00 pm
  #196  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I don't think the effect on the siblings while they are young is much of a concern. They get a bit harder due to getting into fights with kids who bully the autistic sibling. They're more aware of mental health issues than they would otherwise be. They're less prone to embarassment due to having lived through scenes that would make most kids cringe. They may miss out on some activities due to the time and funding demands of the autistic sibling.
I don't think though that they're fundamentally different than would otherwise be the case.

What is a huge concern is the potential effect on them when they all grow up, specifically when the parents are dead or incapable of dealing with the autistic sibling. In some countries, European ones, the parents will have had the option to "put their children/adults into care". If they have elected not to do so then the siblings are eventually faced with making that decision. That, or deciding to dedicate their life to the care of the autistic person, something which likely implies forgoing life with a partner. That's not a legacy for which most children would thank their parents.

In Canada and the US the parents likely don't have the option, the disabled are primarily the responsibility of their families, not of the State. If one lives in one of the religious communties, Hutterite, Mennonite, Polygamist Mormon, popular in North America then "Care in the Community" may amount to something. If one is properly rich then caring can be purchased. Otherwise, votes cast for the religious right, the likes of Reagan, Harris, Harper and Bush the younger, mean that the austic person is the family's problem. In all likelihood the autistic person's siblings are left if not literally in the shit then, at least, mopping it.
With reference to Canada, if no guardianship order has been made then as I understand it (in Alberta) anyway they become a ward of the state if they are deemed not to be able to make decisions for themselves. I know a few AS adults that I worked with did not have their parents/families as their guardians and adult services would come into play if anything happened to their parents. I wander if it changes from province to province?
We had one young lady at our program who was her own guardian and the public guardians office was in the process of applying to the court to be her legal guardian as she didn't make the best decisions for herself, however, she did a runner up to live with her mother who hasn't been able to see her for many years (this girl has been in care since she was a child) but this young lady is now 18 she can go and be with her mother if she chooses, but she is affectively like you and me and has no guardianship order, so does that mean that the state would be responsible for her if she is at risk of harming herself/others?
I know that was something we had to show immigration that if something happened to myself and my OH what would happen to my son otherwise the state would be responsible for him, even with his brother in the country.
I know they are big over here about guardianship orders and many of my parents have had to do this but some don't and I often wandered why.
Any thoughts anyone? What happens in the UK with this as I haven't dealt with this sort of thing in England only here in Canada?
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
I wander if it changes from province to province?
Yes, none of this is a federal matter.
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 2:18 pm
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
In contrast to the tales of progress above, I don't think there has been any significant change in my daughter in the past twenty years. I believe the "H block protest" phase ended before that though the image and smell come back to me as if it were this morning. That was the last big shift, despite the best efforts of medical professionals, gifted amateurs, quacks and the genuinely gifted.

She likes to bounce, like a frog (making me wonder about the origin of tales of Princes and frogs) on the floor or over an exercise ball and does so for most of her waking hours. In consequence, she has attained a level of strength and fitness beyond the wildest claims of the fitness chains.

This presents a problem in the context of teeth cleaning. If she doesn't want to have her teeth brushed, and this is as often as not the case, then one can give up on the idea or hold her down by sitting on her chest and risk the loss of a finger by shoving the brush in. The idea of losing a finger is not fanciful, she will bite, for that reason I don't sit her behind me in the car when driving. Feeling teeth sink into one's flesh is disturbing, it can make one drop one's phone. The problem with restraining her is that she's strong and wilful, unless she's evenly restrained she's capable of breaking a bone or dislocating a joint trying to resist. A past tantrum has left her feet twisted, she broke them repeatedly by stamping. Surgical boots cost a lot but didn't help to set them correctly. Apart from a reluctance to see one's child injure herself, one must be alert to the risk of intervention, the Children's Aid are not about to believe that a child, well an adult now, elected to break a bone. And so, the teeth fall into disrepair. Some dentists will clean and maintain them under a general anaesthetic but that, of course, is a dangerous and expensive business.

She likes water, splashing about, somewhere I've a set of pictures of the kitchen ceiling in one house in which we lived. The bathroom was over the kitchen and, in consequence of repeated splashings, the kitchen ceiling and the kitchen floor became one. Oddly though she's never had that need of routine or regularity typical of autism, take her to a hotel with a pool and she's delighted even though it's all new to her. Check though that no period is due, she's a physically a healthy woman not limited by any societal constraints. The pool could look like a scene from Jaws.

She likes music and has the idea that the knobs on the radio have something to do with making music come out. Most the radios she can reach have long since had the knobs removed but a problem in the car is that she jabs and twists the controls wildly, thus one drives along with one hand frenziedly switching the volume back to reasonable and the channel away from Cancon.

Exposure to autism changes people. My Mother used to say, of a frightening audience, "go on, they won't bite you" but still, until that comparison became tangible to me, I was reluctant to address large groups or to cold call. It changes one's parameters. This recently arrived, in a business email,

"We are all under a remarkable amount of pressure and stress. I know that I
must consciously focus on keeping things positive and constructive."

and I thought, "ffs, it's only your job at stake. You should have something to worry about".
Great post. You've definitely been dealt a tough hand in life and I applaud you for your attitude toward it.
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 1:29 am
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I don't think the effect on the siblings while they are young is much of a concern. They get a bit harder due to getting into fights with kids who bully the autistic sibling. They're more aware of mental health issues than they would otherwise be. They're less prone to embarassment due to having lived through scenes that would make most kids cringe. They may miss out on some activities due to the time and funding demands of the autistic sibling.
I don't think though that they're fundamentally different than would otherwise be the case.

What is a huge concern is the potential effect on them when they all grow up, specifically when the parents are dead or incapable of dealing with the autistic sibling. In some countries, European ones, the parents will have had the option to "put their children/adults into care". If they have elected not to do so then the siblings are eventually faced with making that decision. That, or deciding to dedicate their life to the care of the autistic person, something which likely implies forgoing life with a partner. That's not a legacy for which most children would thank their parents.

In Canada and the US the parents likely don't have the option, the disabled are primarily the responsibility of their families, not of the State. If one lives in one of the religious communties, Hutterite, Mennonite, Polygamist Mormon, popular in North America then "Care in the Community" may amount to something. If one is properly rich then caring can be purchased. Otherwise, votes cast for the religious right, the likes of Reagan, Harris, Harper and Bush the younger, mean that the austic person is the family's problem. In all likelihood the autistic person's siblings are left if not literally in the shit then, at least, mopping it.
Agree, whilst siblings are younger there are actually a huge amount of benefits along the lines of being more understanding to mental health issues with kids, showing a huge amount of patience even when they dont fully understand the issues etc, it still impacts me a lot though when for example we cannot go and do certain activities as a family due to the reaction of our daughter to certain situations etc and that the sibling can miss out and also the fact that the reality is that he will hear bullying going on once she starts school, kids are kids and they will be cruel, some of them, that is life, but very hard to take.

Like you rightly point out the biggest concerns is the long term future, at this moment we just dont know what the future holds and my biggest hope is that she is able to develop to a point whereby she is able to retain some kind of independence and some degree of a normal life. If not and what happens when we are gone I havent/cant yet really think about, but it is a reality we may have to face at some point in the future.
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 4:52 am
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by roxye3 View Post
I anticipated you were going to suggest that. If you will remember I suggested people look at the stats. You obviously did not and you assumed that I have not either so here you go.


SOCIALIST REVIEW
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org...02/violent.htm

British Home Office Stats
http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/ia/atlas.html

As I said, no generalisation which means no irony. Just stats my friend.

Assumption is the mother of all F'ups!

Thank you so much for the link to that incredible piece of writing in the Socialist Review. It is such an accurate reflection of what is going on in society at this time. My greatest wish that the transformation of society that is needed will one day SOON come to pass. This is brilliantly put and I encourage anyone who hasn't read it to do so.
Further, I would say that this is not just in the UK, but everywhere. I am in Canada and can certainly relate to what is written.
I do think the change is coming as the number of people who understand the situation increases until there is a shift in critical mass combined with changes in the economy that no longer support mass consumerism as a way of life.
Thanks again.
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 8:53 pm
  #201  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by fatcat65 View Post
I think there comes a time when (in the words of a god awful country song) you have to know when to walk away and know when to run and i'm done trying.
I can't stand the lazy attitude here to work, it drives me nuts! I can't stand the stupidity of so many things....sometimes things just don't make sense and when you question it they just say "oh well, thats the way it is"!

Yeah its to do with my son, and it just goes to show how little they know about Autism, the lack of knowledge over here is astounding and I guess that goes through all aspects of their lives here including the powers that be.
I've just had one mum say 'Aspergers isn't part of the Autistic Spectrum', and her daughter is Autistic and she's a teacher. Hello, read the info on it!!
Scary Anyway good luck with what you decide and go with your heart.
I'm sorry to hear you have had enough and are leaving. I know what you mean about the "That's just the way it is" attitude.

A story....

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, you'll see a banana hanging on a string with a set of stairs placed under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.


After a while, another monkey makes an attempt to obtain the banana. As soon as his foot touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. It's not long before all of the other monkeys try to prevent any monkey from climbing the stairs.


Now, put away the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him as he makes his way toward the stairs. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.


Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.


After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

'Cause thats the way it has always been done...sound familiar?

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Old Feb 25th 2011, 9:09 pm
  #202  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by uk4canada View Post
I'm sorry to hear you have had enough and are leaving. I know what you mean about the "That's just the way it is" attitude.

A story....

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, you'll see a banana hanging on a string with a set of stairs placed under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.


After a while, another monkey makes an attempt to obtain the banana. As soon as his foot touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. It's not long before all of the other monkeys try to prevent any monkey from climbing the stairs.


Now, put away the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him as he makes his way toward the stairs. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.


Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.


After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

'Cause thats the way it has always been done...sound familiar?

Is that intended to explain autism?
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 9:11 pm
  #203  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by uk4canada View Post
I'm sorry to hear you have had enough and are leaving. I know what you mean about the "That's just the way it is" attitude.

A story....

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, you'll see a banana hanging on a string with a set of stairs placed under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.


After a while, another monkey makes an attempt to obtain the banana. As soon as his foot touches the stairs, all of the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. It's not long before all of the other monkeys try to prevent any monkey from climbing the stairs.


Now, put away the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him as he makes his way toward the stairs. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.


Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.


After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

'Cause thats the way it has always been done...sound familiar?

love it, yes very familiar
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 9:13 pm
  #204  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Is that intended to explain autism?
Explain autism???? Is is that you just don't get the joke or are you being serious?
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by uk4canada View Post
Explain autism???? Is is that you just don't get the joke or are you being serious?
Did you actually read past post number one
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Old Feb 25th 2011, 10:58 pm
  #206  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by uk4canada View Post
Explain autism???? Is is that you just don't get the joke or are you being serious?
Foot, mouth...
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Old Feb 28th 2011, 3:42 pm
  #207  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by nikki dreaming View Post
Did you actually read past post number one
Actually yes I did. I have been following this families issues regarding their son since they first posted on this site.

I was sharing a joke to comment on the crazy bureaocracy they have been forced to endure. I'm sorry you failed to appreciate that. The one person I was directing my comment to (fatcat65) seems to have got the point i was making.
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Old Feb 28th 2011, 9:51 pm
  #208  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by uk4canada View Post
Actually yes I did. I have been following this families issues regarding their son since they first posted on this site.

I was sharing a joke to comment on the crazy bureaocracy they have been forced to endure. I'm sorry you failed to appreciate that. The one person I was directing my comment to (fatcat65) seems to have got the point i was making.
I got the point you were making and also that FatCat appreciated the point too, my comment was relating to the fact that it appeared to me to be a little insensitive to the previous 13 pages , which seemed to specifically relate to Autism related issues. Somehow a story about monkeys didnt seem to follow the tone that the thread had developed.

Anyhow, perhaps it was just me and I was being oversensitive
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Old Feb 28th 2011, 11:20 pm
  #209  
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Default Re: I'm going home, i've done my time!!

Originally Posted by roxye3 View Post
Sorry but I have to disagree! Not lazy! You both confuse "Lazy" with a more relaxed way of life. You can't compare Apples and Lemons. Life in Great Britain requires something very different. There is no need to run the rat-race of Great Britain here. I come from London and appreciate that where I live in Canada is 40 years behind London. What we lack in frenzied, fast passed and crazy lives we make up for in real community connections. My bank manager knows my name! Cars stop to let me cross the street at any point, jay walking or not. People say "Hello" to you because it is nice to be nice and not because they want something from you. It is not dirty or aggressive like Great Britain. I am sad that people are heading back but lets face it; Great Britain is more aggressive, dirty, over crowded and rude. Look at the crime stats, population stats. It is all there. No generalisations here. It gets worse every year too. I hope you enjoy paying council (Poll) tax for no real services. I wish Fatcat all the best and I understand his plight but sweeping generalisations are not cool!
Couldn't agree more with you

I have a couple of friends with autistic children and the support they have been getting here is amazing.

Last edited by bonbon123; Feb 28th 2011 at 11:27 pm. Reason: posted before finishing
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