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-   -   How do you deal with the racism in Canada? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/how-do-you-deal-racism-canada-516374/)

JonboyE Feb 23rd 2008 4:54 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by ann m (Post 5971828)
There is absolutely no support for education from the locals or the kid's families. Why not? Because, presumably, they see nothing to be gained from a 'formal' (white man's) education. Could it not lead to anything else? Could the education be taylored better (but you could ask why should it be?)

I think you are very close to the heart of an important issue. The school system is designed to produce functioning and economically valuable citizens. If you think that, regardless of educational achievement, you will be denied the opportunity to function and contribute it does seem rather pointless. I believe that many First Nations think they have no place in "white man's" society so no need for a "white man's" education?

JonboyE Feb 23rd 2008 5:14 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by ann m (Post 5973616)
What would the First Nations people want to happen? Have they been asked or has anyone done a survey? What would their practical solution be? Who is their voice nowadays? Do they have one voice or many? Does anyone know please ?

No, there isn't one voice, which doesn't help. There is the Assembly of First Nations but I don't think it even claims to speak for all. I also don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution. The First Nations are different nations and the language, culture, history and needs of the Coast Salish of the west coast is very different to that of the Mi'Kmaq on the east.

In BC there has, so far, been one successful settlement with the Nisga people. This involved transferring a substantial (and sustainable) tract of land, together with all the rights to economic exploitation, to the Nisga and establishing a third level of government - effectively self-rule within their land. Of course, it helps that BC is so huge with lots of land the white man doesn't need. I can't imagine the same thing happening in Vancouver!

The BC premier, Gordon Campbell has had some sort of epiphany during his term as leader. He started out as as very anti rights for First Nations, but has now become a firm supporter of the treaty settlement process.

JonboyE Feb 23rd 2008 6:35 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 5973711)
... I am sure that some of their ancestors took "their" land from other "tribes" at some point in the past - or are you seriously suggesting that they were all transported in a vacuum to the locations the settlors found them in independent of all others around them ?

I think you are wrong here. the First Nations are aboriginal people - the first humans to settle the land after the ice retreated.

Not that it would matter. Even if they had displaced a race of Neanderthals, the current situation would not suddenly become acceptable as a consequence.


To me it is the position they find themselves in now is analogous to the young, single, benefit dependent youngsters in the UK: whilst they have someone to blame for their "situation", they can absolve themselves of all responsibility for the situation they find themselves in.
So we can absolve ourselves by passing the blame back? It sounds like throwing a man who can't swim into a pond, and then telling him that if he can't be bothered to learn to swim in the next 30 seconds there is no way you are going to jump in and save him.

If we want to find an accommodation with the the First Nations that fits into our notions of a modern, first world, Canada we have to give them the tools to do it. As a starter, we have to ensure that their future leaders have access to "our" education system and "our" universities so we can learn to speak a common language. I think that subsidizing university education for First Nations people (which is where we were a few pages ago in this discussion) is a very positive step forward.


I would like to know how many of them manage to extricate themselves from what would appear to be a vicious circle of birth, poor education, early parenthood, premature death etc notwithstanding the exemptions they achieve through their status.
I have no idea of the numbers. Some I guess, but not many. I would also guess that premature death is still the number one exit route.


The whole "you stole our land" in my opinion is complete poppycock - unless of course we are all transported back to the days when we had to co-exist with dinosaurs:sneaky:
Legally you may be right - and no one is going to roll back 400 years of settlement - but it is a moot point. Understanding why the First Nations are where they are is, IMO, an essential starting point to finding a future that works for all the people of Canada.

Elaine B. Feb 23rd 2008 7:21 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 5973711)


The whole "you stole our land" in my opinion is complete poppycock - unless of course we are all transported back to the days when we had to co-exist with dinosaurs:sneaky:

I'm sure it was part of the joke but you do realize that humans didn't co-exist with dinosaurs:confused:

(sorry silly point to pick on but my 5 year old would be distressed at such a suggestion :rofl:)

bazzz Feb 23rd 2008 7:24 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Elaine B. (Post 5974270)
I'm sure it was part of the joke but you do realize that humans didn't co-exist with dinosaurs:confused:

(sorry silly point to pick on but my 5 year old would be distressed at such a suggestion :rofl:)

It's true. There's nothing about dinosaurs in the bible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk

vanman Feb 23rd 2008 7:52 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
How do you deal with racism anywhere in the World? a rather strange thread, is racism dealt with differently anywhere you live?

acer rose Feb 24th 2008 12:55 am

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Mrs Muesli (Post 5969219)

Do you find it more covert than in the UK?
Is it more of the "in your face" variety?

I live in a fairly diverse city. There is generally less of an atmsophere of suspicion here. The woman wearing the hijab or the man wearing the turban will not appear to be walking down the street expecting to be subjected to a random verbal attack, consequently people (and society) seem to be more relaxed.

I have heard comments from Canadians about people of different race or background that were never going to be said in the presence of a person of that other race. On the other hand, some comments are pretty direct - I was targeted for criticism for being an immigrant by a second generation Canadian - and others are a complete communicaiton breakdown - I came across one exchange that was like watching a scene from Little Britain (I'm thinking of the weight club sketches) except it was an exchange between white Canadian and a non-white Canadian.

Edit: and just to even it up, I've heard plenty of racist droppings from immigrants too.

Rich_007 Feb 24th 2008 3:23 am

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Steve_P (Post 5970480)
One of the reasons I object strenuously to being labeled that way just because I live in Alberta.

Well help yourself a little by taking off your cowboy hat when indoors.

;)

R.

Steve_P Feb 24th 2008 5:44 am

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Rich_007 (Post 5975625)
Well help yourself a little by taking off your cowboy hat when indoors.

;)

R.

I do not own a cowboy hat, sh*t kickers (cowboy boots) or blue jeans and I definitely don't own a truck. :p

So I am a total failure as a red neck.;)

Cheers
Steve

RubyRose Feb 24th 2008 10:37 am

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by mc_dub (Post 5969333)
I'm actually having issues with what I term reverse-racism what with the afro-centric schools etc. that are planned. Just seems like minorities are being given more rights than others at some points to compensate for the idiots in society who try take other rights from them. I'm not sure how we can drone on about everyone being equal while treating people differently?

I totally agree with you, this kind of development does not address the real problems. Separate development i.e education creates deeper unsurmountable barriers in my opinion as found in South Africa during the apartheid era. Policies need to be thought out very carefully and in a measured manner. When over compensation occurs then it is a plan for severe disaster. That is just my humble opinion.

Ruby

Canadian Citizen Feb 24th 2008 1:13 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
It seems to me that MOST of you are ignorant about the real problems that the Aboriginals are causing. Yes I said causing problems.

You seem to think that they are victims. Not by a long shot. Many of them are using OUR money, to sue US thru OUR courts. The Natives have NO money that wasn't given to them by some level of Government. And of course we all KNOW that Governments have no money, except that which was collected by them from US, the gullible taxpayers.

I have lived in Canada all my life, and my ancestors came here over 200 years ago. I'm entitled to make a few points.

The Natives are being encouraged to "claim back their land ". Right...... and many of those land claims are in the middle of our biggest cities. What a surprise. It is NOT about land it is ABOUT THE MONEY.

Education rights. Every community college in Canada has reserved seats, set aside in every course for Natives, at NO CHARGE, but many seats go empty because the courses are "too far away " from the home towns of the natives. Reserves are considered to be "a separate entity that has it's own laws and rules " and of course they are ruled by Natives, who spend OUR money with no regard for any acountability. Band chiefs hire their own family members, with no thought to ability to do the job, and then pay them sky high salaries. One example....A Chief of a small reserve in Alberta is paid $300, 000 CDN a YEAR. His family, who are the council, voted him that amount The PM of Canada gets $200,00 CDN a year to lead the entire country.

In the far north of this country, Innuit villages are totally supported by OUR tax dollars, There is NO PAYING WORK, and every single modern thing , such as snowmobiles, big screen TVs and the kids designer clothing is bought with Canadian tax dollars, when the welfare cheques arrive on the 28 th of each month. Health care and dental services are FREE, and if you get sick , the Government flies you out to a big city for FREE treatment, and new clothes if you ask for them. Modern schools complete with gymnasiums and exercise equipment are located in places with a total population of 600 people. Teachers are sent up there, at taxpayers expense, and they have to be housed and paid at a "isolated community " premium rate, and they get to fly out , to the south 3 times each year, for a "break ". All of the social services providers are whites, and Doctors, Nurses and school administrators are all paid a premium to work up there.

In southern Ontario , the Natives of the Six Nations reserve ( population 22,000 people ) have been occupying a large chunk of land near the town of Caledonia, FOR TWO YEARS NOW. The citizens of the town have been attacked by mobs of Natives, cars burnt, homes damaged and people hurt so badly that they were in hospital for weeks. The Ontario Provincial Police have had as many as 800 officers there, at times. The Natives are claiming that the land is theirs. They have no legal right to occupy the land, but they are still there, today. As I said before it is NOT about land it is ABOUT MONEY.

Natives pay NO TAXES, if they maintain a " home address " on a reserve. They get a "Band Identification Card " that allows them to buy ANYTHING without paying taxes to any level of Government. NO PST NO GST NO income taxes. Many of them use this to make money. They will buy a new truck or car that you want to own, pay no taxes on it, then transfer it to you, for a percentage of the sale price. You save the sales tax.

People have commented on the Natives history in Canada. Make sure that you understand that they were no angels, back then. Slavery, torture of captives, cannibalism, and constant raiding of other tribes, to steal women, was the normal life of the North American Natives. No written languages and no use of metals . Today they are still not angels when it comes to the use and misuse of the land and animals. I have personally seen tremendous waste of animals, by Native hunters. For example black bear gall bladders are highly valued in China, for traditional medicine. Here in Northern Ontario, Cree hunters will shoot a black bear, JUST for it's gall balder, leaving the rest of the carcass to rot in the forest. West coast Natives have been convicted in court for killing bald eagles, for their feathers, to sell to those who make the Pow wow dancing costumes. Remember that un-like the rest of us, Natives do NOT have to obey any hunting or fishing rules, and they can kill as much and as often as they want, with no restrictions at all.

The blame for much of the poverty on Native reserves lies squarely on THEIR shoulders. The Federal Government of Canada spends, on an annual basis about ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, on EACH man woman and child in Canada who is covered by the Indian Act. That population number is just about ONE MILLION people. That is in addition to the Provincial and Regional Governments who are also supporting them with OUR tax dollars.

So a huge sucking sound which is the bottomless pit that is support given to the Natives. And every day they are finding new ways to GET MORE MONEY.

Remember that if YOU are paying Canadian taxes, YOU are being screwed by the Natives, every day. Do some reading, and find out the facts, not the BS put out by the Natives, and their highly paid lawyers, who by the way, YOU are paying for, thru your taxes. Am I bitter, you bet.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

buzz365 Feb 24th 2008 1:33 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Canadian Citizen (Post 5976824)
It seems to me that MOST of you are ignorant about the real problems that the Aboriginals are causing. Yes I said causing problems.

You seem to think that they are victims. Not by a long shot. Many of them are using OUR money, to sue US thru OUR courts. The Natives have NO money that wasn't given to them by some level of Government. And of course we all KNOW that Governments have no money, except that which was collected by them from US, the gullible taxpayers.

I have lived in Canada all my life, and my ancestors came here over 200 years ago. I'm entitled to make a few points.

The Natives are being encouraged to "claim back their land ". Right...... and many of those land claims are in the middle of our biggest cities. What a surprise. It is NOT about land it is ABOUT THE MONEY.

Education rights. Every community college in Canada has reserved seats, set aside in every course for Natives, at NO CHARGE, but many seats go empty because the courses are "too far away " from the home towns of the natives. Reserves are considered to be "a separate entity that has it's own laws and rules " and of course they are ruled by Natives, who spend OUR money with no regard for any acountability. Band chiefs hire their own family members, with no thought to ability to do the job, and then pay them sky high salaries. One example....A Chief of a small reserve in Alberta is paid $300, 000 CDN a YEAR. His family, who are the council, voted him that amount The PM of Canada gets $200,00 CDN a year to lead the entire country.

In the far north of this country, Innuit villages are totally supported by OUR tax dollars, There is NO PAYING WORK, and every single modern thing , such as snowmobiles, big screen TVs and the kids designer clothing is bought with Canadian tax dollars, when the welfare cheques arrive on the 28 th of each month. Health care and dental services are FREE, and if you get sick , the Government flies you out to a big city for FREE treatment, and new clothes if you ask for them. Modern schools complete with gymnasiums and exercise equipment are located in places with a total population of 600 people. Teachers are sent up there, at taxpayers expense, and they have to be housed and paid at a "isolated community " premium rate, and they get to fly out , to the south 3 times each year, for a "break ". All of the social services providers are whites, and Doctors, Nurses and school administrators are all paid a premium to work up there.

In southern Ontario , the Natives of the Six Nations reserve ( population 22,000 people ) have been occupying a large chunk of land near the town of Caledonia, FOR TWO YEARS NOW. The citizens of the town have been attacked by mobs of Natives, cars burnt, homes damaged and people hurt so badly that they were in hospital for weeks. The Ontario Provincial Police have had as many as 800 officers there, at times. The Natives are claiming that the land is theirs. They have no legal right to occupy the land, but they are still there, today. As I said before it is NOT about land it is ABOUT MONEY.

Natives pay NO TAXES, if they maintain a " home address " on a reserve. They get a "Band Identification Card " that allows them to buy ANYTHING without paying taxes to any level of Government. NO PST NO GST NO income taxes. Many of them use this to make money. They will buy a new truck or car that you want to own, pay no taxes on it, then transfer it to you, for a percentage of the sale price. You save the sales tax.

People have commented on the Natives history in Canada. Make sure that you understand that they were no angels, back then. Slavery, torture of captives, cannibalism, and constant raiding of other tribes, to steal women, was the normal life of the North American Natives. No written languages and no use of metals . Today they are still not angels when it comes to the use and misuse of the land and animals. I have personally seen tremendous waste of animals, by Native hunters. For example black bear gall bladders are highly valued in China, for traditional medicine. Here in Northern Ontario, Cree hunters will shoot a black bear, JUST for it's gall balder, leaving the rest of the carcass to rot in the forest. West coast Natives have been convicted in court for killing bald eagles, for their feathers, to sell to those who make the Pow wow dancing costumes. Remember that un-like the rest of us, Natives do NOT have to obey any hunting or fishing rules, and they can kill as much and as often as they want, with no restrictions at all.

The blame for much of the poverty on Native reserves lies squarely on THEIR shoulders. The Federal Government of Canada spends, on an annual basis about ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, on EACH man woman and child in Canada who is covered by the Indian Act. That population number is just about ONE MILLION people. That is in addition to the Provincial and Regional Governments who are also supporting them with OUR tax dollars.

So a huge sucking sound which is the bottomless pit that is support given to the Natives. And every day they are finding new ways to GET MORE MONEY.

Remember that if YOU are paying Canadian taxes, YOU are being screwed by the Natives, every day. Do some reading, and find out the facts, not the BS put out by the Natives, and their highly paid lawyers, who by the way, YOU are paying for, thru your taxes. Am I bitter, you bet.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

Thanks for the posting............but it still comes down to the fact that its their land. If the europeans hadnt decided to build empires they would be living how they wish. You mention the population being about one million, but how many was it before the europeans arrived and how much would it have been had they been left alone.

hot wasabi peas Feb 24th 2008 1:55 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Canadian Citizen (Post 5976824)
Jim Bunting. Toronto.


A perfect example of a Canadian racist.

dbd33 Feb 24th 2008 2:08 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Canadian Citizen (Post 5976824)
Natives pay NO TAXES, if they maintain a " home address " on a reserve. They get a "Band Identification Card " that allows them to buy ANYTHING without paying taxes to any level of Government. NO PST NO GST NO income taxes.

I've been dealing with the racism on this thread by ignoring the thread. This however prompts me to shout "Bollocks!". It's simply not true.

Jay Bird Feb 24th 2008 2:14 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Canadian Citizen (Post 5976824)
I have lived in Canada all my life, and my ancestors came here over 200 years ago. I'm entitled to make a few points.

Am I bitter, you bet.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

There you have it......a true racist.... someone who really is the epitome of my signature!
Why, if you have lived in Canada all your life are you even on the BE forum?


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