Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I can understand not wanting to get into a one on one with such a person, I do think on somewhere such as this we need to point out the facts as a lot of people may look at that, see it as quite plausible and assume that it's true because they don't have access to all the data on Canada as they've not moved here yet or don't have a lot of contact with First Nation people/policies/problems as they've not lived here all that long. Otherwise some people are just going to bracket them with the eastern Europeans so many say they are seeking to escape from the UK (Isn't ironic? Don'tcha think?! ;))

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I do not think so.

Let's say the English, French and Spanish had never ever set foot in the Americas do you honestly believe this land mass, from arctic to the antarctic, would still be stuck in the 1600's and the natives would continue to blissfully continue their idyllic existence?

Even those countries in Africa and Asia, former european colonies, have changed drastically with the times.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

BUZZ 365:

According to anthrapology Prof at the University of Toronto, the native population in what is now Canada , pre 1500 was about three hundred thousand Natives. Remember that they had NO large cities, and they were nomadic hunters and some had subsistence farming with small plots of crops planted between the trees in the forests.

A further point to note...........Un-like the USA which had an official policy of
extermination of the Indians ( remember all those western movies from Hollywood ? ) Canada did the exact opposite. We fed them, tried to teach them how to fit in with us, and gave refuge to many who were chased over
" the medicine line " into Canada. The choice of the red coats, for the RCMP was no accident. It was a deliberate choice so even a child could tell the difference between them and the blue coats of the US Army, who killed Indians without mercy for a period of 50 years, to help vacate the plains, so the settlers could take their land.

Canada didn't do that. We helped them to survive after the Americans had KILLED all the buffalo, which was the staple food of the plains tribes, on both sides of the border. The eastern tribes, who were forest dwellers, first traded furs with the French, then with the British, after they defeated the French in 1759. I don't know where some one here got the idea that the Natives were "forbidden to hunt " that is rubbish.

I see that the PC crowd have arrived to label me a racist. Please point out ANY points that I have made that are NOT TRUE. If the Natives are such wonderfull folks, please tell me about your personal interactions with them, and how they treated YOU as a newcomer to Canada.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

Notice that I"m not hiding behind a "screen name " here.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I read your original post and noted it was factual. If there were any serious mistakes then people here will point them out. So far you have been met with stony silence. That in itself speaks volumes!

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Montreal Mike "

Seeing as you have been in Canada for a goodly number of years, could you tell the "others " about the OKA stand off " ?

Tell them about how the entire OKA area was held hostage by a group of armed Mohawks, who were trying to hyjack a piece of land in a town in Quebec. How the situation required the Canadian Army to come in to surround the group, and how it took over 3 months to finally settle it/ disarm them ? Tell them about the closing of the highway bridges leading to the south shore and the nightly gun battles between the Mohawk Warriors Society and the drug running Natives from Kanestaki ?

Please give them some context about the contining criminal activities on the reseves near Montreal.

Human smuggling, gun smuggling, drug smuggling and tobacco smuggling, all controlled by Native crime gangs on the St Regis reserve , which straddles the St Lawrence river, with parts of it in Ontario, Quebec and New York state. A perfect place to do crime, with no Police service willing to try to do anything about it, due to the massive firepower that the Natives have at their disposal. And the lack of political will power by all the gutless politicians, both Federal and Provincial.

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I can see you point but, really, his racism is entirely obvious and I would hope people would research 'the facts' and make up their own minds.

I suspect I have a more indepth knowledge about 'Aboriginal Issues' than most people. I'm not being arrogant... it's just a reality of my life and work experiences and my education.

Here are some of the books that I have read:

Intros:
'Canada's First Nations - Dickason
'Skyscrapers hide the heavens: A history of Indian-white relations in Canada' - Millar
'First Nations in the Twenty-First Century' - Friesen

More indepth:
'Imaginary Indian' - Francis
'A Way of Life that Does Not Exist' - Samson
'I Am Woman' - Maracle
'Visions of the Heart' - Long/Dickason
'Peace, Power & Righteousness' - Alfred

But if people want to create opinions for themselves from random posts on an internet forum, well... :zzz:

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I can not speak of the criminal element because I do not know enough about it.

But, as a long time Montreal resident since 1962 I am well equipped to speak of OKA.

We left for Orlando the day after Oka started. While down there we heard of the stand off but we were more interested in seeing Disney. Two weeks later we drove back and were amazed to find out this was still going on. It contined for long after. The city was held hostage. Canadian troops were sent out. The only other time I saw the militia about was in the October 1970 separatist crisis.

Some people here are naive. They lack the perspective. My guess is they do not even know what the proper definition of the word 'racist' is.

None are so blind as those who will not see! That is why I did not post on the thread at the onset. I simply sat back and shook my head. I still do.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Hot peas:

I read your list of books. How interesting that with only one exception, ALL the books were authored by Natives. I'd suggest they have a bias, to make it as bad as it can be. Hardly an objective reading list.

Please tell me what "errors " you found in my words here. I'm dying to hear this........

Jim Bunting.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Montreal Mike :

Thanks for contributing that memory. Can you comment on the recent (2007 ) news stories about the criminal gangs that are operating on the St Regis reserve. Surely you have seen the coverage on Montreal tv or radio about the amount of criminal activity there ?

Jim B.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I loved my granny. I love my sister's husband. I love my three of my girlfriends. I love my friend's daughter.

I recently chit-chatted with the Lieutenant Governor of BC, brief but pleasant.

I've been inspired by a homeless guy who use to come into a place I worked all drunk and high and how he eventually found his way and is now an addiction counsellor.

Alfred Taiaiake made me think in very different ways (he also made me weak in the knees :tounge_smile:)

I like 'weatherstation Ed' - the homeless guy that sits on a bench nearby me and always says how good it is or not to be alive ... depending on the weather.

My neighbour.


... do I need to go on? :zzz:

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Yes I have seen lots of stuff on TV and in the print media. So I do not think all this stuff is being made up or is an outpouring of racism by Whites. But honestly it has never been of great interest to us.

Oka though did affect ALL Montrealers.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

For the benefit of those here who don't have a clue what the term 'racist' means

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I won't be showing this thread to my relatives.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

No, they are not all FN, Jim. If you'd like a list of only 'non-FN' authors, I can supply you with that.


Intros:
'Canada's First Nations - Dickason
Metis - http://www.naaf.ca/html/o_dickason_e.html



'Skyscrapers hide the heavens: A history of Indian-white relations in Canada' - Miller - 'white'
http://artsandscience.usask.ca/histo...ty_jmiller.php



'First Nations in the Twenty-First Century' - Friesen
Not known... can you supply me with the info?



'Imaginary Indian' - Francis

'white'




'A Way of Life that Does Not Exist' - Samson

White British. I've talked with him many times while I went to uni here:
http://www.essex.ac.uk/sociology/peo...ff/samson.shtm



'I Am Woman' - Maracle

First Nations.




'Visions of the Heart' - Long/Dickason

These are the editors... the book is a multi-perspective of FN Issues therefore various authors from various points of view.



'Peace, Power & Righteousness' - Alfred

FN, yes. And he's very well read in Western philosophies. Are you?


Let me know if you'd like the non-FN booklist.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Do you really think that they'd be surprised?
(I know about your relatives.)

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

If anyone like to see a very good documentary about the 'Oka Crisis' I recommend:

Kanehsatake : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107305/
by Alanis Obomsawin: http://www.nfb.ca/portraits/alanis_obomsawin/

It's excellent and it is also available in the UK... I saw it many times on the shelves at various libraries there.

Also, not directly related to the Oka Crisis...
A video about Residential Schools on the coast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHvODdvAkdE

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

No, not really Hot, they wouldn't you're right.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

A Cree band member helped us move into our new house.

An Ojibwa family gave my mum a front row seat at the powwow, shared their picnic with us.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

One thing that humbled me when I was over in Toronto 2 years ago was sitting in this immigration lawyer's office and he started showing me things that a friend of his does. I saw video from a massive concert showcasing first nations citizens. Thinking that what I was going to see was the aboriginal music I was stunned when I saw rock bands, opera singers, classical musicians, anything BUT aboriginal.

Suddenly I was aware of how narrow minded I had been. I never thought I was considering I have many black musician friends who play rock, pop, heavy metal and are fans of bands such as NIN, Rammstein, Deep Purple etc. I've never equaled a black musician with jazz, gospel or negro spirituals. I also have jewish, homosexual, transsexual, atheists, pagan, new wave, blind, deaf, paraplegic, stupidly rich and extremely poor friends. And then some.

I learnt something new that day. Not so much about the first nations citizens but about myself and as much as I was thankful for the lesson I was ashamed of having been so narrow minded as to the first nations.

As a parallel - if you haven't seen the movie "Rabbit Proof Fence" - DO!

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I picked that error only as an example. I know it to be nonsense because I share an accountant with a colleague who is Cree and a taxpayer despite being technically resident on a reserve and a member of the band council. Advancing "facts" about a group of people you know, or ought to know, to be untrue about a group of people in order to denigrate them is racism. Simple as that.

That said, I don't think racism against the aboriginal people is the only or even the most widespread racism in Canada. Not that I have to deal with racism anyway.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

A quick go at pointing out some errors:

One can certainly make the case that some are victims. Their traditional way of life has been eliminated by industrialisation and the foibles of the white man. Hunting seals whales and polar bears, for example, is no longer a viable way of life. The white man has brought alcohol for which the aboriginal population has a limited tolerance. The population of, say, Davis Inlet did not bring their miserable fate upon themselves.

Some native populations have sources of income beyond the government; casinos, corporate headquartering, land leases are some examples.

I don't think that follows, if anyone it's people newly arrived from the UK who are most entitled to comment here.

That's very vague, what land, by whom, in what forum?


I fail to see a useful difference between "land" and "money" but since half of Quebec is the subject of land claims and most of it is unhabited the cities seem to be a hareng rouge.

This implies the ludicrous notion that there are physically empty seats which, by implication could be occupied by a deserving person if only they weren't held for the feckless Indians. In fact there's a complex system of grants and preferences. If you can show an example of a person displaced from a community college in order that an aboriginal person not take a place there please do so.

I'm curious as to what you would have the government do. Obviously you object to the provision of healthcare and education in the north but without it you're fostering dependency; a sick and uneducated person is not likely to pursue a career. Would you collectivize the natives like Stalin or Joey Smallwood?


Just like us then.

If they don't have to obey any hunting and fishing rules, how come they are prosecuted for breaking those rules?

Well not quite, people who grow up in poverty generally don't do as well in life as those with a better start so it's unfair to suggest that people from reserves are to blame if they fail to achieve as well as people who weren't born on the reserve.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

No mike i imagine there would be much change, but it would be change of their own making.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I was suprised when an old friend i normally respect from Van recently told me her area was going downhill, now that loads of "Iranians" were moving in. She told me they are the cause of all the drug crime and rising property prices. If felt it was a pretty racist point of view. I felt quite uncomfortable hearing that, for her it sounded so matter of fact.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Unfortuanatly those who are often the most prejustice seldom admit it to themselves. Instead they spend extentive amounts of time trying to justify their stance. Meanwhile the world moves on and they just stand still bitter and twisted.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Nope, shes off to the Island.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

But did you say anything to her about your discomfort, or did you just let it ride? :huh:

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

This thread and its putrid ranting makes me puke. As does the miserable petty whining of angry old conservative uptight white men.

:thumbdown:

R.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I changed the subject, shes an older lady, normally very decent, with friends from all ethnic backgrounds, and i am not an "anglo" brit. I have to leave it be.
I am not sure she could tell the difference between an Iraqi, Iranian or Indian.

It is the only time i have seen racism in canada first hand, but then again i have only spent 30 days in total there.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

C'mon Rich - don't hold back - say how you really feel! :D

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Whether she can tell the difference between races is hardly the point..............leaving "it be", as you opted to do just condones the behaviour :thumbdown:

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Maybe she was right.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Darn it, Mrs M.....that's what I was going to say!

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Possibly - but marclouis said he felt "uncomfortable" hearing her comments..............that's why I asked him the question.....

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

i understand your point but sometimes if you comment on these things the people making them claim that is YOU that has the problem and the old cliche comes out " chip on your shoulder".

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

So it just keeps on rolling, then, because people are afraid to tackle it......it's a good thing we don't all subscribe to that lily-livered approach isn't it! :ohmy:

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I just wanted the reader to understand what sort of person we are talking about.

I disagree. It wasnt the time or the place, when i am living as a resident and not a guest in her house i will have that luxury.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Ah - yes, you are in a delicate situation. Understood - apologies, and I will climb down from my high horse! :)

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

seemed a contradiction to me, escalate crime and drive property prices up.

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

You have to accept that there are people who will never change............otherwise you could spend your life challenging people!

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

I dunno. Lots of criminals are very rich.