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-   -   How do you deal with the racism in Canada? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/how-do-you-deal-racism-canada-516374/)

Mrs Muesli Feb 22nd 2008 3:59 pm

How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Racism certainly exists, so how do you deal with it?

Do you find it more covert than in the UK?
Is it more of the "in your face" variety?

Canada is a multicultural society, but all that means is that there are many different cultures. Sadly it does not mean that everyone co-exists peaceably.....so what are your experiences, and how do they compare with the UK?

Poppy2 Feb 22nd 2008 4:05 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Not been here long, but certainly havent encountered any racism. I have lived in NZ for 4 years and encountered racism there, where I, the white foreign national taking jobs and pushing up house prices was the butt of much racism :blink: Found nothing like that here, though I dont think that was your question, sorry.

rae Feb 22nd 2008 4:13 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Mrs Muesli (Post 5969219)
Racism certainly exists, so how do you deal with it?

Do you find it more covert than in the UK?
Is it more of the "in your face" variety?

Canada is a multicultural society, but all that means is that there are many different cultures. Sadly it does not mean that everyone co-exists peaceably.....so what are your experiences, and how do they compare with the UK?

not sure i have encountered racism, as much as a complete ignorance/disregard of others religion, views and opinions, concerning ethnic minorities, is this the same thing?
it certainly does not seem to manifest itself into outright prejudice, though stereotyping is rife, same thing again?
i would say PC simply does not exist or it certainly is, 'pc' over here in my experience.

iaink Feb 22nd 2008 4:28 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Out here in the (relative to GTA) sticks there is the occasional ignorant joke told. I dont tend to laugh along and then they sort of understand its not appropriate.

Its pretty white out here, and thats not just cos its snowing again. But its not as monochromatic as it was a few year ago and things are changing for the better I think.

I dont think its out and out predjudice or racism with intent, its just ignorance.

mc_dub Feb 22nd 2008 4:34 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
I'm actually having issues with what I term reverse-racism what with the afro-centric schools etc. that are planned. Just seems like minorities are being given more rights than others at some points to compensate for the idiots in society who try take other rights from them. I'm not sure how we can drone on about everyone being equal while treating people differently?

sinope Feb 22nd 2008 4:34 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
I cant comment on Canada, but I think that racism is getting worse in the UK. The BNP is more popular than ever in some areas.

rae Feb 22nd 2008 4:34 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by iaink (Post 5969314)
Out here in the (relative to GTA) sticks there is the occasional ignorant joke told. I dont tend to laugh along and then they sort of understand its not appropriate.

.

i would say that pretty much hits the nail on the head, and i work with people who should not only know better, but should be educated accordingly within the work place. the area i work in is the most racially diverse in the city, i hear very little of complaints regarding racism and the workforce itself is ethnically diverse.

now does this mean people simply do not complain, no, they complain regularly.
is the prejudice hidden? think thats a little strong
is it a genuine naivety regarding cultural sensitivity? possibly
are they simply not bothered most of the time? probably

rae Feb 22nd 2008 4:37 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by sinope (Post 5969334)
I cant comment on Canada, but I think that racism is getting worse in the UK. The BNP is more popular than ever in some areas.

i would say of my dealings with the BNP and its supporters, most of it is due to pure ignorance of the parties ideology. they are feeding on the fears of those who know no better, thinking they are doing what is best for themselves and their country, very sad.

Elaine B. Feb 22nd 2008 4:38 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Mrs Muesli (Post 5969219)
Racism certainly exists, so how do you deal with it?

Do you find it more covert than in the UK?
Is it more of the "in your face" variety?

Canada is a multicultural society, but all that means is that there are many different cultures. Sadly it does not mean that everyone co-exists peaceably.....so what are your experiences, and how do they compare with the UK?

I haven't come across much obvious racism in Toronto. But when you get to know people and they let their guard down it amazing the racist crap they come off with and they don't even seem to realize they are being racist.

My FIL lives in Parry Sound and is not shy about expressing his opinions about other races. He's also sexist and homophobic. Oddly enough he's not welcome in our house any more, that's one way to deal with it.:eek:

bazzz Feb 22nd 2008 4:51 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Doesn't seem to be much obvious racism in Vancouver. Probably something to do with it being so racially diverse (51% white) and the fact that nearly everyone is from somewhere else if you go back more than a couple of generations.

It's often quite heartwarming when reading about the latest gang shooting to note that people in the same gang often come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Gang

Edit: the above article is appalling, but you get the gist.

mc_dub Feb 22nd 2008 4:54 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by bazzz (Post 5969390)
It's often quite heartwarming when reading about the latest gang shooting to note that people in the same gang often come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.

:rofl:

Seriously though, does this mean that class is now becoming a bigger issue than race?

JonboyE Feb 22nd 2008 5:21 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
I am sure the First Nations think there is a lot of racism in Canada, and I can't say I blame them one bit.

People are people, and Canada has its fair share of ignorant and bigoted ones. That said, racism in Canada is different from Europe. At least, it is in my experience from one of the most multi-cultural regions in the world.

I think that much of the racism in Europe comes from the fear that immigrants will change the countries to something less amenable to the indigenous white population. I find there is much less of a culture of entitlement here, at least in my part of Canada. You make a good life for your family by working hard and getting on with it. If your black, brown, yellow or red neighbor is doing the same for his family, well, bloody good luck to him.

* people accept that this is a country of immigrants. There are precious few people here who have four grandparents born in Canada.
* people accept that Canada needs more immigrants - particularly in regions and professions where there are obvious labour shortages.
* Canadians are aware this is still a very new country. It is still evolving. New immigrants add to the country's cultural mosaic rather than "destroy" ancient values and traditions. There is no distinctive “Canadian” culture other than the sum of the cultures of all Canadians.
* Canadians, in general, believe in Trudeau's vision of Canada as a free, tolerant and open multi-cultural society. A society whose mores are governed by an accepted set of rights and responsibilities, not centuries old traditions.

In day to day life the open, unthinking, nasty racism that is so prevalent in Europe is just not acceptable here. Anyway, why go to all the trouble when we can all have so much fun disliking the Americans.

Cyan Feb 22nd 2008 6:15 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Living in the GTA we have all sorts - kind of reminds me of a Star Trek episode. Most live in perfect harmony and it feels great.

That said, when I'm approaching a 4 Way Stop Sign, I may profile other drivers (both behind me and those waiting to enter) to ascertain the likelihood of them stopping or rolling through. In my experience, certain races have peripheral vision issues.

live to ski Feb 22nd 2008 6:26 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by bazzz (Post 5969390)
Doesn't seem to be much obvious racism in Vancouver. Probably something to do with it being so racially diverse (51% white) and the fact that nearly everyone is from somewhere else if you go back more than a couple of generations.

It's often quite heartwarming when reading about the latest gang shooting to note that people in the same gang often come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Gang

Edit: the above article is appalling, but you get the gist.

When we did our swing round the flag pole to land at the Peace Arch in BC we were the only white caucasians. The American IO's were very relaxed with us, made a joke about physically swinging on the flag pole, and sent us off with their best wishes.

Whilst the Asian looking family next to us were being given a really hard time.

Everyone else was just sat waiting.

I looked round as we left and everyone else in there was solumn faced, looking pretty terrified.

Mr L2S made some comment to me under his breath as we left abut spot the preferential treatment to the white people with English as their first language.

But would you say that the IO's were being racist?

Rob_999 Feb 22nd 2008 6:31 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
I've only seen racism against the First Nations. Most peoples view them as just drunken layabouts, who block the road and kick up a fuss every now and again. Houses in same school catchment area as a first nations reserve, will generally be priced lower then those in the surrounding area.

Other than that I haven't witnessed much racism. Canadians certainly seem less concerned about immigrants, which seems to be the main driving force behind uks racism problems.

live to ski Feb 22nd 2008 6:34 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by sinope (Post 5969334)
I cant comment on Canada, but I think that racism is getting worse in the UK. The BNP is more popular than ever in some areas.

Sadly the BNP (nearly wrote PNP there!) are getting nearly as popular as the Tories in middle class "blue" Surrey where my parents live which has been the c.5th safest conversative seat for years and years.

Madmac Feb 22nd 2008 6:41 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by live to ski (Post 5969718)
When we did our swing round the flag pole to land at the Peace Arch in BC we were the only white caucasians. The American IO's were very relaxed with us, made a joke about physically swinging on the flag pole, and sent us off with their best wishes.

Whilst the Asian looking family next to us were being given a really hard time.

Everyone else was just sat waiting.

I looked round as we left and everyone else in there was solumn faced, looking pretty terrified.

Mr L2S made some comment to me under his breath as we left abut spot the preferential treatment to the white people with English as their first language.

But would you say that the IO's were being racist?

Similar situation when I had to go down to Kitchener to get photos for my PR card:

We walked into the room to find it busy with several families of Asian immigrants and thought okay, we'll be waiting in line a while.

Nope, the girl behind the counter asked my name then immediately ushered us into the back room where I had my photo taken, a few jokes cracked and then a cherry wave goodbye after the total time of 10 minutes.

On our way out the same families were waiting in the reception.

Racism - probably not. Unfair - probably yes.

dbd33 Feb 22nd 2008 7:24 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Rob_999 (Post 5969737)
I've only seen racism against the First Nations.

What about the French?

Madmac Feb 22nd 2008 7:27 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 5969983)
What about the French?

By or against?

Cyan Feb 22nd 2008 7:27 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Yeah, and what about Newfie jokes ? And 'Corner Gas' is not representative of Saskatchewan life.

Rob_999 Feb 22nd 2008 7:40 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 5969983)
What about the French?

in Vancouver??

dbd33 Feb 22nd 2008 7:41 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Madmac (Post 5970001)
By or against?

I meant "against" but, then again, I'm sure they look down on someone. In a multiculture we're all obliged to hate some other group.

Madmac Feb 22nd 2008 7:45 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 5970087)
I meant "against" but, then again, I'm sure they look down on someone. In a multiculture we're all obliged to hate some other group.

True - it's the human condition I suppose. However I like to think that I'm equally biased against all people and if you're a white/black/brown a**hole then you're still an a**hole.

Backhomeatlast Feb 22nd 2008 7:55 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by live to ski (Post 5969749)
Sadly the BNP (nearly wrote PNP there!) are getting nearly as popular as the Tories in middle class "blue" Surrey where my parents live which has been the c.5th safest conversative seat for years and years.

What a load of rubbish, the BNP are seen as a joke in the UK and 99% know what their agenda is.

mandymoochops Feb 22nd 2008 8:27 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
Don`t normally like to comment in threads like this as it will inevitably turn into a row at some stage and I am not good at putting things across like this without it sounding wrong - but for my two penneth worth


Drumheller is pretty redneck, a society dominated by white hardworking, hardplaying males. There are a couple of families from India, and one from Thailand.

The Indian families run a couple of gas stations and the Thai family run a sewing shop / Thai food outlet. In that respect the business that they have gone into are typical of the stereotypes that exists (ie the whole asian / corner shop thing).

The Hutterites take more flack than anyone but it seems to me that its not so much racism that exists here, its just anyone who tries to play the system gets a whole can of whoopass from the town by way of backlash against their either colour / belief / haircolour blah blah blah.

So because the Hutterites don`t have to have pics on their driving licenses and everyone else does it kinda singles them out for the misdemaenors (sp) of others - ie "why can they get away with driving their brothers truck and not get done for it............ am I making sense :confused:

So I think personally as a whole (wait for the backlash here) its not so much that racism exists anywhere, its just whatever is an obvious difference between one person and another will get someone singled out.

I`m as guilty as the next for calling someone a 4 eyed b*****d if they happen to pull out on me when driving and they wear glasses, or whatever, I think that people pick on the obvious difference, so if it happened to be a colour of skin then they get called that, the same with hair colour, sex, age, physical differences (fat, skinny, one leg or whatever).

Maybe i`m naive but I was born and raised in Leicester, which is about as multicultural as you can find and no one person irrespective of skin colour was better behaved then another.

As an aside I`m sure i`ve been called many-a-time "that stupid blonde bird" and I don`t really take offence because I know
a) Sometimes stupid
b) Definately blonde
c) Last time I looked, a bird

Why would I complain at that? People are stating the obvious.

Sorry to ramble :o

daft batty Feb 22nd 2008 8:40 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
The only racism that I have come across is against First Nations. There seems to be more dislike of redneck bubba folk than other races.

I know one immigrant from India and he warned us that Canadians will employ a Canadian - born here, doesnt matter race, colour etc, over a recent immigrant. So thats all very inclusive.

ladymoose Feb 22nd 2008 8:44 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
As has been said before, the majority of the racism we've come up against has been directed at the First Nations people. Even those who do not live on the reserves (and many don't live on the reserves) but work, own their homes etc etc, are still openly dirided in this area (rural AB).

The "East" Indians are also continuously given a hard time - and are frequently chastised for "walking into Canada" without even filling in application forms. Having gone through the process I find this very hard to believe and have said this in conversation - but always fallls on deaf ears.

There is a lot of negativity towards "French" culture generally - but seems to be based on the old French v English arguments rather than racism as such. We've had a fair amount of criticism for placing our son in FI schooling.

Interestingly, there is an increasing Asian population locally which seems to be well-respected - even the rednecks don't have a bad word to say.

Ukranian, German and Welsh populations well established here too. All considered to be very hard-working (which seems to be the key to being accepted).

Fear-based homophobic comments and gender-based stereotypes abound. My 8 year old son (who is going through a "I want to wear my hair long like a skate-boarder" phase) is frequently teased in my presence by the PARENTS of his friends about his long hair. The criticism is probably directed at me for allowing him to wear it long - they are very shocked when I say it is really not a battle I think worth having and I couldn't give a crap anyway!

Also, nudity generally and sex-education appears very hush-hush. Lots of giggling middle-aged men talk in hushed tones about glimpsing a pair of tits on the TV last night. Or go into Hooters for a thrill. Lots of Benny Hill level humour. Our neighbours had a "do". One told a story of how in Mexico they'd seen one of those wizzy banana boat things zoom past with a load of topless women sitting on it. Story lasted all night (it was a looonnnnggg night) - giggles, wide-eyes, beer splutters etc - even 6 hours later. Sorry - gone off topic. :o

We haven't experienced direct racism towards ourselves but have been deceived and taken advantage of by retailers etc because we were new and didn't know better. We've also received massive acceptance and generosity from complete strangers so I've got no complaints.

MikeUK Feb 22nd 2008 8:56 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
If you were to compare it to the UK, I’d say much much worse, mainly due to the treatment of First nations, even the worst black ghetto is much much nicer than an average reserve and some of this racism is intutionalized in the government (at all levels),
The thinking (redneck’ish) outside of the major cities is that Canada is white European and I think that in my mind says it all.
We don’t need a BNP to trash the 2nd class citizens (natives), the main stream parties and public already agree on that point, nobody gives a shit,
The average Canadian would be happy to see the native problem disappear, and probably conveniently turns a blind eye too

Steve_P Feb 22nd 2008 9:19 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by daft batty (Post 5970329)
There seems to be more dislike of redneck bubba folk than other races.

One of the reasons I object strenuously to being labeled that way just because I live in Alberta.

Backhomeatlast Feb 22nd 2008 9:31 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by mandymoochops (Post 5970284)
Don`t normally like to comment in threads like this as it will inevitably turn into a row at some stage and I am not good at putting things across like this without it sounding wrong - but for my two penneth worth


Drumheller is pretty redneck, a society dominated by white hardworking, hardplaying males. There are a couple of families from India, and one from Thailand.

The Indian families run a couple of gas stations and the Thai family run a sewing shop / Thai food outlet. In that respect the business that they have gone into are typical of the stereotypes that exists (ie the whole asian / corner shop thing).

The Hutterites take more flack than anyone but it seems to me that its not so much racism that exists here, its just anyone who tries to play the system gets a whole can of whoopass from the town by way of backlash against their either colour / belief / haircolour blah blah blah.

So because the Hutterites don`t have to have pics on their driving licenses and everyone else does it kinda singles them out for the misdemaenors (sp) of others - ie "why can they get away with driving their brothers truck and not get done for it............ am I making sense :confused:

So I think personally as a whole (wait for the backlash here) its not so much that racism exists anywhere, its just whatever is an obvious difference between one person and another will get someone singled out.

I`m as guilty as the next for calling someone a 4 eyed b*****d if they happen to pull out on me when driving and they wear glasses, or whatever, I think that people pick on the obvious difference, so if it happened to be a colour of skin then they get called that, the same with hair colour, sex, age, physical differences (fat, skinny, one leg or whatever).

Maybe i`m naive but I was born and raised in Leicester, which is about as multicultural as you can find and no one person irrespective of skin colour was better behaved then another.

As an aside I`m sure i`ve been called many-a-time "that stupid blonde bird" and I don`t really take offence because I know
a) Sometimes stupid
b) Definately blonde
c) Last time I looked, a bird

Why would I complain at that? People are stating the obvious.

Sorry to ramble :o


It does not count unless you are 100% blonde, no hair dye from a bottle but a 100% natural blonde from birth:thumbup:

live to ski Feb 22nd 2008 10:16 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by MikeUK (Post 5970391)
We don’t need a BNP to trash the 2nd class citizens (natives), the main stream parties and public already agree on that point, nobody gives a shit,
The average Canadian would be happy to see the native problem disappear, and probably conveniently turns a blind eye too

Hey Mike,

This is something that I have wondered for some time.

What exactly is the native problem? I've heard all the stories of alcoholic lay abouts, that a significant proportion of the homeless in Vancouver are First Nations, and there was a story on the news recently about a First Nations dad letting his 2 baby / toddler daughters freezer to death on a reserve, but it doesn't really give me the context.

I feel like I did growing up near London in the 1980s. I always heard of the IRA and knew to be suspecious of anyone with an Irish accent because they would likely have just left a bomb in the local train station, but I never knew why.

We have one friend here whose Grandfather is First Nations - she got some amazing grants when she went to uni just for that.

I was also on a CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Enviromental Design) course recently and they mentioned that areas near Reserves are likely to be high crime but it got brushed over when I asked why.

mandymoochops Feb 22nd 2008 10:20 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
I`ll be interested to read the answer too, as I have heard about the apparent fondness for alcohol in the reserves and wondered if it was just tale.

I do know that even here at the bank 'aboriginals' get special deals and loans and mortgages, and yes LTS i`ve heard also about lots of grants and suchlike for being 'native'.

rwin Feb 22nd 2008 10:23 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by live to ski (Post 5970770)
What exactly is the native problem?

I think the problem is that there are official government policies based on race. That is racism at its best. Or worst.

live to ski Feb 22nd 2008 10:23 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
First Nations kids off the local reserve at Whistler get free ski lessons.

All these freebies sound like discrimination to me;)

daft batty Feb 22nd 2008 10:24 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by live to ski (Post 5970770)
Hey Mike,

This is something that I have wondered for some time.

What exactly is the native problem? I've heard all the stories of alcoholic lay abouts, that a significant proportion of the homeless in Vancouver are First Nations, and there was a story on the news recently about a First Nations dad letting his 2 baby / toddler daughters freezer to death on a reserve, but it doesn't really give me the context.

I feel like I did growing up near London in the 1980s. I always heard of the IRA and knew to be suspecious of anyone with an Irish accent because they would likely have just left a bomb in the local train station, but I never knew why.

We have one friend here whose Grandfather is First Nations - she got some amazing grants when she went to uni just for that.

I was also on a CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Enviromental Design) course recently and they mentioned that areas near Reserves are likely to be high crime but it got brushed over when I asked why.

Not sure what you mean here, but it comes over as an example of unintentional racism. Do you mean she had free education just because her GF is native and that this is wrong??

I think the First Nations see it that they shouldnt pay tax to the people who took over their land. Very few natives go to university and college and maybe this is a way of encouraging more students to go. ?
Its a complex subject for sure, hopefully there is someone out there who knows more about the subject as I would like to learn more.

mandymoochops Feb 22nd 2008 10:30 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by daft batty (Post 5970808)
Not sure what you mean here, but it comes over as an example of unintentional racism. Do you mean she had free education just because her GF is native and that this is wrong??

I think the First Nations see it that they shouldnt pay tax to the people who took over their land. Very few natives go to university and college and maybe this is a way of encouraging more students to go. ?
Its a complex subject for sure, hopefully there is someone out there who knows more about the subject as I would like to learn more.

I think that statements like that take the whole thing too far, so many people could be accused of being unintentionally anything that we'd all never say anything.

rwin Feb 22nd 2008 10:35 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by daft batty (Post 5970808)
I think the First Nations see it that they shouldnt pay tax to the people who took over their land.

Another problem. Us and Them.

daft batty Feb 22nd 2008 10:52 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by mandymoochops (Post 5970833)
I think that statements like that take the whole thing too far, so many people could be accused of being unintentionally anything that we'd all never say anything.

Ah, but it makes you think about what you are saying, and that's important.

Sometimes, quite often, in life we say things we dont realise are insulting, or demeaning, and unless its pointed out to us then we carry on with the same mistake. So I really dont see what is wrong with considering other peoples viewpoints, and learning from them.

buzz365 Feb 22nd 2008 10:56 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 

Originally Posted by daft batty (Post 5970920)
Ah, but it makes you think about what you are saying, and that's important.

Sometimes, quite often, in life we say things we dont realise are insulting, or demeaning, and unless its pointed out to us then we carry on with the same mistake. So I really dont see what is wrong with considering other peoples viewpoints, and learning from them.

I agree totally

Tangram Feb 22nd 2008 11:02 pm

Re: How do you deal with the racism in Canada?
 
My Canadian cousins are First Nation Maliseet, feel free to ask any questions regarding racism or special privileges.


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