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Holidaying from UK to BC

Holidaying from UK to BC

Old Jun 24th 2020, 5:34 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

So wait, you're a Typhoid Mary wanting to come to a work camp and to splosh toxic waste around and you think Canada should welcome you? Oh dear.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
No crystal ball required to know that an industry that consists of digging stuff out of the ground and making a huge mess while doing so is not sustainable. Fortunately the price of oil is such that there's no continuing need to make Alberta look like Aberfan. Pipelines might have made sense in 1980 but that ship has sailed.
Oh I see. Your emotions are getting the better of you. You might want to have a look at how oil has and is contributing to the Canadian economy directly and indirectly. They are building pipelines now you know. And it will benefit Canada.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 5:43 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
So wait, you're a Typhoid Mary wanting to come to a work camp and to splosh toxic waste around and you think Canada should welcome you? Oh dear.
HAHA no. Ok. I'm out - think this is going to get way off topic and emotional from the original topic, the UK finger pointing and my original post in response. I will just be repeating myself.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 6:18 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Sasquatch888 View Post
Oh I see. Your emotions are getting the better of you. You might want to have a look at how oil has and is contributing to the Canadian economy directly and indirectly. They are building pipelines now you know. And it will benefit Canada.

Hmmm, I think it's a bit late to be moving into the oil business at all but particularly in Canada. A bit like moving to Australia to work in the coal business; there's some work today but it's the end of the line; a job not a career. Still it's your funeral.

It's not a matter of emotion to say that, as seen from Canada, the UK government is a shambles and is courting a public health disaster. People in the UK may be fine with that though there's a contradiction in supporting the gammon, little Englander, government and wanting work abroad. However that chaos makes people here nervous of the British. Note that British people are still associated with mad cow disease and cannot give blood. It may be that some British people will come but they'll be viewed as, say, Romanian fruit pickers, are in their home land.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Sasquatch888 View Post
Oh I see. Your emotions are getting the better of you. You might want to have a look at how oil has and is contributing to the Canadian economy directly and indirectly. They are building pipelines now you know. And it will benefit Canada.
You are so way off-base with this that it is no longer funny.

The oil patch is running out of time, they're having to move further and further away from where they began ........ and I have been here long enough to be able to remember when some of the big oil companies moved into the oil patch to start the digging. The man I worked for was called into to do an environmental assessment way back in 1970 to assess the potential damage to a "small area". Ha bloomin' ha.

If you believe all that Alberta says, yep, there's a lot left to dig up and leave the land one h*** of a mess. But they completely neglect to mention that the market is shrinking rapidly for that crude oil .......... even the US is finding its own dirty oil to dig.

And MY emotions are not getting in the way of the clear eyed view I have ............. there is less and less oil, there are fewer markets in which to sell it, and there is less enthusiasm across Canada AND in the US to have pipelines snaking around.

Added to this is the fact that easily pump-able oil from under the ground in most provinces is shrinking rapidly, and it is becoming more expensive to get that to market. So much so that those oil wells that everyone loves to photograph in farmers' fields from BC to Ontario are rather quickly coming to a halt.

We regularly cross the country, and I've watched as oil well after oil well has stopped pumping ............ I would estimate that over 50% of the ones that we have watched over the last 16 years are now inactive.

They're "orphan wells" abandoned by the oil companies that installed them, and left for someone else to shut down and cap. I have seen reports that over 70% of such wells in BC are now "orphan".

Oil is no longer the magic economy contributor that it was, and won't ever be that important again.


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Old Jun 24th 2020, 9:03 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Sasquatch888 View Post
I think some on here are missing the point. Countries cannot be shutdown forever, especially ones that are heavily reliant on immigrants and tourists coming into the country, like Canada. Until a vaccine or suppressive drugs are available, it will come down to how effective your local authorities are at dealing with new cases in the form of tracking, testing and localized isolation. It will have to come to that our else the problems caused by shutting down will out-weigh the ones caused by Covid19. That is what most developed countries are starting to rely on now as they get to a point where they are prepared for localized outbreaks.

The UK has been letting foreign nationals into the country and not closed the boarders, true. They have also carried out double the amount of tests per 1m people than Canada. They also include fairly reliable death figures and include deaths from outside of hospital, not many other countries do - not sure about Canada but sounds like their reporting of deaths is unreliable and slow at best. Despite this, the UK is now on a similar trajectory to Canada in new cases and deaths. The daily numbers themselves are still a bit higher in the UK, but again, the above reasons will go some way to explaining this. Considering the UK has double the population in a fraction of the land mass, with a far more intricate public transport network - I am not sure if Canadians can sit there and point fingers and say how badly the UK are doing - especially when you look at figures in built up areas like Toronto and Montreal - and neither have done well when it comes to care homes. There will be pros and cons of how both have handled things.

However now more than ever what with Covid19 and the state of the oil sands, Canada needs us islanders (you know, the founders of Canada) to come into the country as quickly and as numerous as possible.

To answer the OP - Canada should start easing restrictions once their track, trace and isolate procedures are in place, which should (hopefully) be in the next month or 2. Canadians should be praying for that, as if not, to close boarders for a whole summer will be a disaster for the tourism, airline & hospitality industries and the Canadian economy as a whole.

Lets all hope for some more positive times ahead, eh.
I see no-one has caught you on this

First, the UK did a rotten job initially ...... I've read reports, both in the media and scientific, and listened to people on the ground over there.

The UK did not count people dying outside hospitals for quite a period of time, whether that was in care homes or in a private home.

Then ordinary folk started saying relations had died in care homes of covid-like cause, but their death certificates did not show that.

Boris was a denier initially, and you lost control.

Canada had people in control and planning for a pandemic beginning in January because they listened to reports coming out of China and because several Health Officers had previous experience with Ebola, SARS and MERS

The Provincial Health Officer in BC was issuing public warnings beginning in February. The first case in the province was reported as soon as she knew about it, as was the first death, which just happened to be in a private home.

BC, and I think most if not all provinces, counted covid infection cases and deaths wherever they occurred ,,,,,,,, in BC the first serious numbers happened to be in a care home, and we got updates every single day, 7 days a week.

We are still getting updates, but 5 days a week as the epidemic is easing.

The Federal Officer of Health was initially a denier of the use of masks, and is still not certain about them, but she was also giving full updates of number of cases and where they were occurring.

Ontario and Quebec had the highest number of cases, and there were mistakes in early days because it seems that some care homes were not reporting cases of covid or accurately reporting deaths.

You might also have noticed that most of the Premiers kept their noses out of making announcements other than in generalised form (such as "your government is planning on doing .... The Minister will be announcing full details later today"). For some strange reason, Premiers, and even Trudeau, were content not to be the talking monkey all the time. They left it up to the experts.


As for your comment that I've highlighted in green ............... Brits are no longer the only favoured immigrant. More immigrants now come from other places and have the skills that Canada needs.

This country was really "British colonised" when we first came 50 years ago, and was the worst for it.

There has been a huge change over the years, and immigration from the US, Asia and Europe has greatly increased.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 9:08 pm
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 9:14 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

40 - 15. New balls please.....
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 9:25 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by scilly View Post
The Provincial Health Officer in BC was issuing public warnings beginning in February. The first case in the province was reported as soon as she knew about it, as was the first death, which just happened to be in a private home.

BC, and I think most if not all provinces, counted covid infection cases and deaths wherever they occurred ,,,,,,,, in BC the first serious numbers happened to be in a care home, and we got updates every single day, 7 days a week.

We are still getting updates, but 5 days a week as the epidemic is easing.
one thing to consider however is that the latest data shows BC had hundreds of excess deaths in the time period up to 2 May. Between March 15 and April 25 there were 372 excess deaths of which 99 were Covid. So there is a discrepancy that cannot be explained.

the UK has had a similar problem so it’s not just a BC/Canadian thing.

my point is that until all this is over and we have all the data we will not be able to compare countries performance accurately. Certainly looking at just Covid numbers is not helpful as all countries are doing their own thing. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...d-19-1.4993550

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Old Jun 24th 2020, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by scilly View Post
I see no-one has caught you on this

First, the UK did a rotten job initially ...... I've read reports, both in the media and scientific, and listened to people on the ground over there.

The UK did not count people dying outside hospitals for quite a period of time, whether that was in care homes or in a private home.

Then ordinary folk started saying relations had died in care homes of covid-like cause, but their death certificates did not show that.

Boris was a denier initially, and you lost control.

Canada had people in control and planning for a pandemic beginning in January because they listened to reports coming out of China and because several Health Officers had previous experience with Ebola, SARS and MERS

The Provincial Health Officer in BC was issuing public warnings beginning in February. The first case in the province was reported as soon as she knew about it, as was the first death, which just happened to be in a private home.

BC, and I think most if not all provinces, counted covid infection cases and deaths wherever they occurred ,,,,,,,, in BC the first serious numbers happened to be in a care home, and we got updates every single day, 7 days a week.

We are still getting updates, but 5 days a week as the epidemic is easing.

The Federal Officer of Health was initially a denier of the use of masks, and is still not certain about them, but she was also giving full updates of number of cases and where they were occurring.

Ontario and Quebec had the highest number of cases, and there were mistakes in early days because it seems that some care homes were not reporting cases of covid or accurately reporting deaths.

You might also have noticed that most of the Premiers kept their noses out of making announcements other than in generalised form (such as "your government is planning on doing .... The Minister will be announcing full details later today"). For some strange reason, Premiers, and even Trudeau, were content not to be the talking monkey all the time. They left it up to the experts.


As for your comment that I've highlighted in green ............... Brits are no longer the only favoured immigrant. More immigrants now come from other places and have the skills that Canada needs.

This country was really "British colonised" when we first came 50 years ago, and was the worst for it.

There has been a huge change over the years, and immigration from the US, Asia and Europe has greatly increased.

​​​​​​Quite the tirade. I did not say the UK government was perfect and did not make mistakes, as you said, so did the provinces of ontario and quebec. The point is, the UK, despite allowing international travel, are now at similar rates to Canada and things are returning to normal, like Canada. I said I didn't know about death reporting in Canada but a quick Google search says it wasn't brilliant. But again, the point is that the virus is just as controlled in the UK as Canada.

I also made the point that Canada needs people from other countries to come in. Not just the UK. But as the UK supplies Canada with a lot of the skilled workers it needs and more tourists come from there than any other country, aside from US, it would be extremely beneficial for Canada (as a percentage, the UK, but other counties as a whole).

Canada would be doing massive damage to the economy by keeping all foreign travellers out. And no, I'm not saying everything should be relaxed tomorrow. But some suggested next year which would be a disaster for Canadians.

As for the oil debate. I should clarify I am not going to canada to work in the oil industry as some suggested. Simply put Canada has a lot of it. More than any other resource by far. As the oil price and demand is low, investment form oil companies is also going to be low. Which is bad for Canada, yes, I didn't say everything was great and definitely will be again. However, the cherished liberal Canadian government also seems to think it is pretty valuable, hence why they are building pipelines and want to build more. They will be praying that demand and prices go up so the revenues and tax from those companies will fill a very large financial deficit. The market maybe slowly shrinking, but not so much to make oil obsolete and not important. Again government intervention proves that. Oil does a lot of other things other than fuel your massive trucks you know.

But that is besides the point. I was irked by the comments basically saying how crazy the UK is compared to the amazing Canada, and Canada will be fine closing off completely for a long period, especially to those silly Brits. Both sentiments are complete rubbish. The first point may be attributed to kneejerk reactions from things read in questionable media sources.

Last edited by Sasquatch888; Jun 24th 2020 at 10:33 pm.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Sasquatch888 View Post

Canada would be doing massive damage to the economy by keeping all foreign travellers out. And no, I'm not saying everything should be relaxed tomorrow. But some suggested next year which would be a disaster for Canadians.
But.. when is the right time, questionably even if they announced mid July they are opening up for August, a large percentage of folk wont be going on holiday this year, as most are worse off due to COVID 19, many are concerned about travelling abroad,especially transatlantic. Those likely to go are possibly gung ho and less likely to comply with rules

If my PR paperwork comes through I intend to travel this year if we are allowed, but have resigned myself to that if it happens my first 2 weeks in Canada will likely be in a hotel by the airport (just hoping I can get one with a balcony)

Effectively for tourism the summer season isn't a goer this time round, ski season doesn't kick off until January for foreign travel really (and is much smaller than summer season) is it worth risking opening up over summer for a small percentage of usual takings? is it worth opening up in the fall as a second wave and seasonality of a flu like virus kicks back in for a non holiday season? aside from a few ski towns would the impact of not having brits (or other european countries) not hitting the slopes even be a drop in the ocean? Would it be wise to wait until April next year, and potentially have a vaccine/at least understand things better. The risk isn't that the UK has had it bad, its that the mass exposure and high death toll of the vulnerable the UK has already experienced, Canada hasn't and it only takes 1 highly mobile person on a roadtrip to infect hundreds if not thousands. But until the virus is either eradicated, or vaccinated - there is always going to be that vulnerable 2/5/10% at risk of such an occurrence.

They wont allow foreign travellers (for holidays at least) in until they are happy with people travelling between provinces without quarantine. Personally I don't think the UK is currently any more risky than many other European countries, but likewise I don't feel like a mass opening is right and have concerns about any foreign travel currently.

Also politically it becomes awkward to allow Germany/France (possibly the UK - if we don't moan about the weather or lack of tea?) in whilst keeping those southern neighbours out, without suffering the wrath of an angry Trump.
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Old Jun 24th 2020, 11:56 pm
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Sasquatch888 View Post
​​​​​​

Canada would be doing massive damage to the economy by keeping all foreign travellers out. And no, I'm not saying everything should be relaxed tomorrow. But some suggested next year which would be a disaster for Canadians.

As for the oil debate. I should clarify I am not going to canada to work in the oil industry as some suggested.
.
It's not going to be a disaster for Canada if the Canadians don't let you in. It might be an inconvenience to them; if you're a GP willing to work rural nowhere, but they'll survive. The same is true for travelers in general, public health is a greater concern than a few fares on the Maid of the Mist.
,
If you're not in the oil business why would you bring it up? That's like making shipbuilding in Canada an issue, yes there was some of each but the country has moved on - only a few people still care.



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Old Jun 25th 2020, 12:01 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
But.. when is the right time, questionably even if they announced mid July they are opening up for August, a large percentage of folk wont be going on holiday this year, as most are worse off due to COVID 19, many are concerned about travelling abroad,especially transatlantic. Those likely to go are possibly gung ho and less likely to comply with rules
just because someone has a higher risk tolerance / are in a lower risk group does not necessarily mean they won’t obey the rules.

A single 25-yr old with no medical conditions choosing to fly to Switzerland is different to a 65 year old diabetic mother of 2 travelling to New York
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 12:32 am
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Here's a fun chart, AFAIK this is a kosher source:

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...pickerSort=asc

It shows why Canada might want to be cautious about admitting people who have been in the US, the UK or Brazil. That said, if they're tested, quarantined for a fortnight and tested again that should be safe enough except for the warders at the quarantine facility.
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Old Jun 25th 2020, 12:42 am
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Default Re: Holidaying from UK to BC

Originally Posted by Engineer_abroad View Post
just because someone has a higher risk tolerance / are in a lower risk group does not necessarily mean they won’t obey the rules.

A single 25-yr old with no medical conditions choosing to fly to Switzerland is different to a 65 year old diabetic mother of 2 travelling to New York
No completely agree - but as somewhat of a generalisation from being sat in Britain,its not a divide between those that are low risk wanting to go abroad, and those that are high risk wanting to stay home.

Those that comply with the rules are going "no holiday this year, tsk" but then you've got a semi large proportion of the country (possibly the ones those less keen on British Brits further up the thread are on about keeping out permanently,who will want a full English for breakfast washed down with a pint of Carling!) who are very much "We want our pubs back and our holidays back, corona isn't going to stop us, as soon as we can get a flight to Benidorm we're on it" who are typically those that have been having parties all along through lockdown.

Again with another generalisation but around Canadian holidays and the revenue from tourism, outside of those with close friends/family in Canada- as a summer destination the large amounts of money are spent on those visiting multiple towns, road tripping etc for a couple of weeks - anyone planning such a holiday this year if they were allowed would be high risk of spreading to multiple people, and whilst those only doing a city break to Toronto/Vancouver may be travelling less, they are again high risk of spreading it to multiple people due to increased population density in those areas. No ones coming over for a week, flying into Halifax and then sitting in a cabin in the woods for the week (and those few that are, aren't contributing to the economy significantly).
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